This seems like a lot of boat for the money. Although the Lehmans have
5000+ hours on them, I've heard they can go lots longer.

From the fact that it's being represented by a Florida broker that
specializes in DeFevers, I expect it's a Florida boat that made its way
to Seattle.

http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?
currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1286341&slim =ywpbs&

jps wrote:
This seems like a lot of boat for the money. Although the Lehmans have
5000+ hours on them, I've heard they can go lots longer.

From the fact that it's being represented by a Florida broker that
specializes in DeFevers, I expect it's a Florida boat that made its way
to Seattle.

http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?
currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1286341&slim =ywpbs&


Your link isn't working.

I would be happy to render an opinion if I knew which boat you were
interested in.

I did run all theDeFevers in "Seattle" and didn't see any represented
by a broker that doesn't have an office in the NW.

More info, please.

Thanks

On 15 May 2006 19:05:25 -0700, "
wrote:

jps wrote:
This seems like a lot of boat for the money. Although the Lehmans have
5000+ hours on them, I've heard they can go lots longer.

From the fact that it's being represented by a Florida broker that
specializes in DeFevers, I expect it's a Florida boat that made its way
to Seattle.

http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?
currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1286341&slim =ywpbs&


Your link isn't working.

I would be happy to render an opinion if I knew which boat you were
interested in.

I did run all theDeFevers in "Seattle" and didn't see any represented
by a broker that doesn't have an office in the NW.

======================

http://tinyurl.com/l9h5z

In article .com,
says...

jps wrote:
This seems like a lot of boat for the money. Although the Lehmans have
5000+ hours on them, I've heard they can go lots longer.

From the fact that it's being represented by a Florida broker that
specializes in DeFevers, I expect it's a Florida boat that made its way
to Seattle.

http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?
currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1286341&slim =ywpbs&


Your link isn't working.

I would be happy to render an opinion if I knew which boat you were
interested in.

I did run all theDeFevers in "Seattle" and didn't see any represented
by a broker that doesn't have an office in the NW.

More info, please.

Thanks

Wayne got it. Thanks Wayne.

It's weird 'cause it's represented by two brokers at two different
prices. Oviatt has it a $125K and another broker out of Florida has it
listed at $99.5K.

It's quite a bit of boat for $125 but it's quite a bit more attractive
at $100. The Lehmans actually have closer to 6000 hours so I wonder if
replacing them is figured in...

jps

jps wrote:
In article .com,
says...

jps wrote:
This seems like a lot of boat for the money. Although the Lehmans have
5000+ hours on them, I've heard they can go lots longer.

From the fact that it's being represented by a Florida broker that
specializes in DeFevers, I expect it's a Florida boat that made its way
to Seattle.

http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?
currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1286341&slim =ywpbs&


Your link isn't working.

I would be happy to render an opinion if I knew which boat you were
interested in.

I did run all theDeFevers in "Seattle" and didn't see any represented
by a broker that doesn't have an office in the NW.

More info, please.

Thanks

Wayne got it. Thanks Wayne.

It's weird 'cause it's represented by two brokers at two different
prices. Oviatt has it a $125K and another broker out of Florida has it
listed at $99.5K.

It's quite a bit of boat for $125 but it's quite a bit more attractive
at $100. The Lehmans actually have closer to 6000 hours so I wonder if
replacing them is figured in...

jps




Without knowing anything particularly about the condition of the
vessel; if the hull is sound and the cosmetics aren't just completely
shot she might be an OK buy at $100k. Probably not a bona fide "steal",
however, unless it's a lot fresher and cleaner than it appears in the
photos and it's major sale-proofing is solely the result of some very
high engine hours. Unless there is some well documented major overhaul
work and/or unless Norm from Pat's Marine Engines surveys the stink out
of the engines and pronounces them in good shape I would figure on a
repower, for sure. (Just because some people will live to be 105
doesn't mean we should all expect to). Figure $50k for a rough number,
(if you can get a decent deal somewhere) but get a more detailed
estimate before finalizing an offer. The listing represents the boat as
a displacement, rather than a semi-displacement hull which would make
it somewhat unsual (ergo the paravanes). There wouldn't be any reason
to go for a lot more power than the current 120's, as you could double
the HP, maybe triple the fuel consumption and perhaps get another knot
or two as a result (maybe).

With 6000 hours, there's a good chance this has been a charter boat.

My impresssion from the listing and without inspecting the boat, is
that it is probably something of a fixer-upper. If you ultimately wind
up with $200k in the boat, you could have bought something a lot newer
(but not with new engines) in the same size category for that same
money. For somebody who wants to wind up with a freshly repowered,
cosmetically resurrected boat for something around $200k, a boat like I
envision this DeFever to be could be a good starting point *if it is
structurally sound*. If she needs a total exterior paint job as well
as a repower, {see Florida UV damage}, you will be in the game well in
excess of the $200k. If you've got stringers, fuel tanks, or house rot
to deal with you will be in the game probably way too much based on
what you'll have when done. On the other hand, if the boat is as tired
looking as the poor quality exterior photo suggests, you could make a
relatively modest investment, just boat around cheap and dirty for a
while, cross your fingers and hope the machinery doesn't come akimbo.
If something major conks out, you could always take a $40-50k bath and
just walk away- but I would never really personally recommend taking
the minimalist approach or trusting engines in less than top condition.


Arthur DeFever rather likely supervised the layup and construction of
this vessel, but it is still a Taiwan trawler with all of the
associated "isms". :-)

Call Brent Whiteman at Oviatt if you're seriously interested and you
can use my name if you'd care to. Brent and I worked together at
another brokerage in the past. He'll give you a no BS account of the
boat. I wouldn't worry too much about the broker in FLA with the lower
listing price. He may not actually have a legitimate listing on the
boat (could be just fishing for leads with another broker's listing-
maybe not- I don't know) but if the sellers will really accept $99k
presented by a broker in FLA they would certainly take the same price
presented by a broker in Seattle. There's a chance that the boat was
for sale for a while in FLA at $99k, didn't sell, and has been trucked
to the Pacific NW where trawlers are a much hotter commodity than they
are in FLA. The seller may be trying to recover some of the transport
costs as well as start a bit higher due to the market differential in
the PNW. Since you're in Seattle, talk to Oviatt.

wrote in message
oups.com...


Unless there is some well documented major overhaul
work and/or unless Norm from Pat's Marine Engines surveys the stink out
of the engines and pronounces them in good shape I would figure on a
repower, for sure. (Just because some people will live to be 105
doesn't mean we should all expect to). Figure $50k for a rough number,
(if you can get a decent deal somewhere) but get a more detailed
estimate before finalizing an offer.


Just for a reference, I checked on a new repower "just in case" for Mrs.
E's GB with the 120 hp Ford Lehman.
Bob Smith of American Diesel quoted around $12,000 per engine. That was a
couple of years ago, so the price may have gone up a bit since. He is a
good source for any parts, etc. for the original Lehman's.

According to him, 6000 hours on these engines has just about broken them in.
Most problems are associated with the bolt-ons.


RCE

On Tue, 16 May 2006 05:23:37 -0400, "RCE" wrote:

Bob Smith of American Diesel quoted around $12,000 per engine. That was a
couple of years ago, so the price may have gone up a bit since. He is a
good source for any parts, etc. for the original Lehman's.

Was that for the engine alone, or engine + labor?

RCE wrote:
..

According to him, 6000 hours on these engines has just about broken them in.
Most problems are associated with the bolt-ons.


RCE

These engines can run 10's of thousands of hours in applications like
24/7 power generators, and 6000 hours wouldn't be unusual for a
commercial fish boat. Due to the differeneces in frequency of
operation, long down times with dirty oil festering in the crankcase,
etc etc etc it would be really unusual to realize a commercial duty
longevity in a pleasure boat application.

Just because some people will live to be 105 doesn't mean that every 75
year old should absolutely count on doing so. :-)

In the case of this DeFever, the price is depressed in part due to a
perceived "risk" of a 6000 hour boat. Buyers are going to be skeptical,
and rightly so. All the people who say, "Don't worry, she's got years
and years and years left in her" will do nothing more then express
surprise when something does break loose and it is the new owner who
will be footing the entire bill. Let's say nothing major went wrong,
jps ran the boat for 10 years and then decided to sell a 38 year old
boat with 7400 engine hours.........good luck!

The good news with this boat is that if it's available for $75k, $80k,
or even up to the $100k
asking price there's a potential (depending on the condition of other
systems and cosmetics) for the value to increase by about as much as it
would take to repower. Most of the time a buyer going into a boat that
needs to be repowered doesn't expect that to be the case and only
discovers after it's too late that he needs to spend another big pile
of dough.
My impression is that the market has discounted this boat for
something- and the most obvious suspect without an inspection has to be
the engine hours. The boat may not be sale-proof at $100k, but up in
the middle huns where you find boats of similar age with half the
engine hours it probably is. We can be pretty sure the seller didn't
start off at $100k, and that the current pricing is the latest step in
a series of measures (that included moving the boat from FLA to the PAC
NW?) to try to find the "spot" in the marketplace where the perceived
value at least slightly exceeds the price demanded and it becomes more
likely that a buyer will appear.

In article .com,
says...


Without knowing anything particularly about the condition of the
vessel; if the hull is sound and the cosmetics aren't just completely
shot she might be an OK buy at $100k. Probably not a bona fide "steal",
however, unless it's a lot fresher and cleaner than it appears in the
photos and it's major sale-proofing is solely the result of some very
high engine hours. Unless there is some well documented major overhaul
work and/or unless Norm from Pat's Marine Engines surveys the stink out
of the engines and pronounces them in good shape I would figure on a
repower, for sure. (Just because some people will live to be 105
doesn't mean we should all expect to). Figure $50k for a rough number,
(if you can get a decent deal somewhere) but get a more detailed
estimate before finalizing an offer. The listing represents the boat as
a displacement, rather than a semi-displacement hull which would make
it somewhat unsual (ergo the paravanes). There wouldn't be any reason
to go for a lot more power than the current 120's, as you could double
the HP, maybe triple the fuel consumption and perhaps get another knot
or two as a result (maybe).

With 6000 hours, there's a good chance this has been a charter boat.

My impresssion from the listing and without inspecting the boat, is
that it is probably something of a fixer-upper. If you ultimately wind
up with $200k in the boat, you could have bought something a lot newer
(but not with new engines) in the same size category for that same
money. For somebody who wants to wind up with a freshly repowered,
cosmetically resurrected boat for something around $200k, a boat like I
envision this DeFever to be could be a good starting point *if it is
structurally sound*. If she needs a total exterior paint job as well
as a repower, {see Florida UV damage}, you will be in the game well in
excess of the $200k. If you've got stringers, fuel tanks, or house rot
to deal with you will be in the game probably way too much based on
what you'll have when done. On the other hand, if the boat is as tired
looking as the poor quality exterior photo suggests, you could make a
relatively modest investment, just boat around cheap and dirty for a
while, cross your fingers and hope the machinery doesn't come akimbo.
If something major conks out, you could always take a $40-50k bath and
just walk away- but I would never really personally recommend taking
the minimalist approach or trusting engines in less than top condition.


Arthur DeFever rather likely supervised the layup and construction of
this vessel, but it is still a Taiwan trawler with all of the
associated "isms". :-)

Call Brent Whiteman at Oviatt if you're seriously interested and you
can use my name if you'd care to. Brent and I worked together at
another brokerage in the past. He'll give you a no BS account of the
boat. I wouldn't worry too much about the broker in FLA with the lower
listing price. He may not actually have a legitimate listing on the
boat (could be just fishing for leads with another broker's listing-
maybe not- I don't know) but if the sellers will really accept $99k
presented by a broker in FLA they would certainly take the same price
presented by a broker in Seattle. There's a chance that the boat was
for sale for a while in FLA at $99k, didn't sell, and has been trucked
to the Pacific NW where trawlers are a much hotter commodity than they
are in FLA. The seller may be trying to recover some of the transport
costs as well as start a bit higher due to the market differential in
the PNW. Since you're in Seattle, talk to Oviatt.

I emailed the Florida broker last night, he referred me to Niel at
Oviatt and Niel just emailed me saying that he's changing the price on
the website.

The precipitous drop in price would likely indicate the boat needs new
engines.

jps

jps wrote:
In article .com,
says...


Without knowing anything particularly about the condition of the
vessel; if the hull is sound and the cosmetics aren't just completely
shot she might be an OK buy at $100k. Probably not a bona fide "steal",
however, unless it's a lot fresher and cleaner than it appears in the
photos and it's major sale-proofing is solely the result of some very
high engine hours. Unless there is some well documented major overhaul
work and/or unless Norm from Pat's Marine Engines surveys the stink out
of the engines and pronounces them in good shape I would figure on a
repower, for sure. (Just because some people will live to be 105
doesn't mean we should all expect to). Figure $50k for a rough number,
(if you can get a decent deal somewhere) but get a more detailed
estimate before finalizing an offer. The listing represents the boat as
a displacement, rather than a semi-displacement hull which would make
it somewhat unsual (ergo the paravanes). There wouldn't be any reason
to go for a lot more power than the current 120's, as you could double
the HP, maybe triple the fuel consumption and perhaps get another knot
or two as a result (maybe).

With 6000 hours, there's a good chance this has been a charter boat.

My impresssion from the listing and without inspecting the boat, is
that it is probably something of a fixer-upper. If you ultimately wind
up with $200k in the boat, you could have bought something a lot newer
(but not with new engines) in the same size category for that same
money. For somebody who wants to wind up with a freshly repowered,
cosmetically resurrected boat for something around $200k, a boat like I
envision this DeFever to be could be a good starting point *if it is
structurally sound*. If she needs a total exterior paint job as well
as a repower, {see Florida UV damage}, you will be in the game well in
excess of the $200k. If you've got stringers, fuel tanks, or house rot
to deal with you will be in the game probably way too much based on
what you'll have when done. On the other hand, if the boat is as tired
looking as the poor quality exterior photo suggests, you could make a
relatively modest investment, just boat around cheap and dirty for a
while, cross your fingers and hope the machinery doesn't come akimbo.
If something major conks out, you could always take a $40-50k bath and
just walk away- but I would never really personally recommend taking
the minimalist approach or trusting engines in less than top condition.


Arthur DeFever rather likely supervised the layup and construction of
this vessel, but it is still a Taiwan trawler with all of the
associated "isms". :-)

Call Brent Whiteman at Oviatt if you're seriously interested and you
can use my name if you'd care to. Brent and I worked together at
another brokerage in the past. He'll give you a no BS account of the
boat. I wouldn't worry too much about the broker in FLA with the lower
listing price. He may not actually have a legitimate listing on the
boat (could be just fishing for leads with another broker's listing-
maybe not- I don't know) but if the sellers will really accept $99k
presented by a broker in FLA they would certainly take the same price
presented by a broker in Seattle. There's a chance that the boat was
for sale for a while in FLA at $99k, didn't sell, and has been trucked
to the Pacific NW where trawlers are a much hotter commodity than they
are in FLA. The seller may be trying to recover some of the transport
costs as well as start a bit higher due to the market differential in
the PNW. Since you're in Seattle, talk to Oviatt.

I emailed the Florida broker last night, he referred me to Niel at
Oviatt and Niel just emailed me saying that he's changing the price on
the website.

The precipitous drop in price would likely indicate the boat needs new
engines.

jps

Niel is the local manager for Oviatt, and a very good guy. If you delve
into this any deeper, Neil is an excellent person to deal with. I've
known Brent longer than Niel, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Niel
as well.