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I'm the type of guy who's better at researching a product than I am at
actually making a decision. I was last here years ago, laughing at the various debates between Harry and Skipper, since I pretty much believe in the David Pascoe dogma that a high quality boat is the only kind of boat you should buy. But then, like many, I ran into reality. First I thought I'd get a used boat cheap. But I quickly discovered that the under $5k used boat market was pretty much a swamp of derelicts uncared for by their owners, especially here in Pittsburgh, PA, which is not what I would call a world centre for boating. If you go up a bit further in price, you find the Ski Nautique brand. I love the design and construction quality, but they are so specialized towards skiing that they wouldn't make much of a comfortable, family oriented runabout I could use to blast around on the river, take pictures and have guests without the lamentable inhospitality of the true fishing boat. I asked the Wakeboard crowd about this, and they suggested Cobalt. So I visited http://www.cobaltboats.com/ and wow, what a cool company. But alas, if you go to their cheapest boat, the 200, you get prices like these: http://www.cobaltboats.com/model_lin...uipment200.php So I wound up checking out a new boat dealer that sold Bayliner. I was prepared to hate Bayliner. I am even on record somewhere deep in USENET history as agreeing with Harry that Bayliner is not the world's greatest boat. But at the same time, I am on the river, not an ocean. On the other hand, I plan to migrate down to Florida at some point and then maybe I will be on an ocean. So I'd like to have a boat that could go on the ocean that wouldn't empty my wallet every month. So I checked out Bayliner's entry level boat and it certainly looked far better than the old models. The saleslady, a really cool person, said they were, in fact, better than the old models. It's a pity she used the argument "They're the most popular boat on the planet! If they weren't good, people wouldn't buy them?" Try to talk that way to an Apple computer user who KNOWS everyone buys Windows, and you're not getting very far :-). But still, I want to be fair. And lo and behold, even here, I see even ol' Harry softening his opinion on them. Oh, he growls about the cleat size, but he seems to have lost a lot of his vim and vigour on the subject. I kept on looking, though. There's something notably unappealing about Bayliner. They don't talk much about quality. The rival dealer sold Larson, "Better-built boats". So I went to this site: http://www.everythingboats.com/ryob/...h.pl?type=list and I'll be darned if half the reviews of Larson were unfavorable and most of the reviews about Bayliner were raves! Reviews like this are bound to put you off on a boat: http://www.everythingboats.com/ryob/...ew&boat_id=326 http://www.everythingboats.com/ryob/...ew&boat_id=282 Well, in the end, I did find the perfect runabout. A little big and a bit greedy on fuel, and I'm not sure if you can even buy diesel on the Monongahela River, which might make refueling a bit interesting. But still, who could resist this one? http://powerandmotoryacht.com/boatte...02hinckleyT29/ for great pictures, see http://www.boats.com/sites/hinckley/...hinckley&pic=0 Well, the perfect boat if I had $335,000-odd to spend on a runabout. And it's sold already! I do admire the Hinckley service organization, though. Looks like they sell you the boat, if anything goes wrong, they fix it, they do the annual varnishing and polishing so your boat will never look old, and then if you get tired of it and want a bigger boat, they are there to sell it for you. The next owner will get a service history down to individidual light bulb replacements (stuff like Replace PAR 16 12v light bulb .... $28.95). I may not be able to afford that sort of thing, but I admire it enormously. Okay, back to reality. If I have aroud $20k to spend on a nice circa 18-20' runabout, what really are the best quality choices? What is the difference, in reality, between a $20,000-odd 20' Bayliner and a $45,000-odd 20' Cobalt? Thanks for your thoughts! D |
#2
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#4
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posted to rec.boats
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#5
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posted to rec.boats
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Last year my admiral and I were in the market for a new boat, we looked at
the Glastron,Seeray, Tahoe, and Bayliner. all in the 10-18k range. All the boats were approx 18ft. We chose the Bayliner 175. $11,500 for boat and trailer. It is a VERY basic boat, but for what we do thats actually a good thing. Did we get the fancy interior of the other boats? No, but we did get a very user friendly interior. Did we get the fancy clamshell engine cover with the gas operated lift? Nope on that as well, the engine cover lifts out and you put it to the side. What we did get was a very basic boat that meets all coast gaurd guidelines that sees all the same scenery that the more expensive boats see's. It has the Merc 3.0 and alpha drive, the same engine/drive combo that just about all the other boats have. We are very happy with this boat, Starts right up, goes about 45mph, doesnt burn much gas, handles well and rides good for a 17.5 boat. If your looking to spend money on a new boat, you really cant beat the Bayliner line. What they do is design a boat that has all the BASICS in it. You ask what the difference is between a 20k bayliner and a 45k other brand. Well its not the engines/outdrives., Nowadays its either Volvopenta or Merc. Its the extras that the other brands put into thier boats. We didnot get a radio in our boat, nor a depth finder, nor a bimini top (I REALLY got to get one this year). It didnt come with the laminate wood dashboard, the gas operated lift mechanicals for the engine hatch, the fiberglass covered floor. But it did come with a gelcoated dash, removable engine hatch , carpeted floor. As stated its a basic boat. The extras are very nice but you have to pay for them. wrote in message oups.com... I'm the type of guy who's better at researching a product than I am at actually making a decision. I was last here years ago, laughing at the various debates between Harry and Skipper, since I pretty much believe in the David Pascoe dogma that a high quality boat is the only kind of boat you should buy. But then, like many, I ran into reality. First I thought I'd get a used boat cheap. But I quickly discovered that the under $5k used boat market was pretty much a swamp of derelicts uncared for by their owners, especially here in Pittsburgh, PA, which is not what I would call a world centre for boating. If you go up a bit further in price, you find the Ski Nautique brand. I love the design and construction quality, but they are so specialized towards skiing that they wouldn't make much of a comfortable, family oriented runabout I could use to blast around on the river, take pictures and have guests without the lamentable inhospitality of the true fishing boat. I asked the Wakeboard crowd about this, and they suggested Cobalt. So I visited http://www.cobaltboats.com/ and wow, what a cool company. But alas, if you go to their cheapest boat, the 200, you get prices like these: http://www.cobaltboats.com/model_lin...uipment200.php So I wound up checking out a new boat dealer that sold Bayliner. I was prepared to hate Bayliner. I am even on record somewhere deep in USENET history as agreeing with Harry that Bayliner is not the world's greatest boat. But at the same time, I am on the river, not an ocean. On the other hand, I plan to migrate down to Florida at some point and then maybe I will be on an ocean. So I'd like to have a boat that could go on the ocean that wouldn't empty my wallet every month. So I checked out Bayliner's entry level boat and it certainly looked far better than the old models. The saleslady, a really cool person, said they were, in fact, better than the old models. It's a pity she used the argument "They're the most popular boat on the planet! If they weren't good, people wouldn't buy them?" Try to talk that way to an Apple computer user who KNOWS everyone buys Windows, and you're not getting very far :-). But still, I want to be fair. And lo and behold, even here, I see even ol' Harry softening his opinion on them. Oh, he growls about the cleat size, but he seems to have lost a lot of his vim and vigour on the subject. I kept on looking, though. There's something notably unappealing about Bayliner. They don't talk much about quality. The rival dealer sold Larson, "Better-built boats". So I went to this site: http://www.everythingboats.com/ryob/...h.pl?type=list and I'll be darned if half the reviews of Larson were unfavorable and most of the reviews about Bayliner were raves! Reviews like this are bound to put you off on a boat: http://www.everythingboats.com/ryob/...ew&boat_id=326 http://www.everythingboats.com/ryob/...ew&boat_id=282 Well, in the end, I did find the perfect runabout. A little big and a bit greedy on fuel, and I'm not sure if you can even buy diesel on the Monongahela River, which might make refueling a bit interesting. But still, who could resist this one? http://powerandmotoryacht.com/boatte...02hinckleyT29/ for great pictures, see http://www.boats.com/sites/hinckley/...hinckley&pic=0 Well, the perfect boat if I had $335,000-odd to spend on a runabout. And it's sold already! I do admire the Hinckley service organization, though. Looks like they sell you the boat, if anything goes wrong, they fix it, they do the annual varnishing and polishing so your boat will never look old, and then if you get tired of it and want a bigger boat, they are there to sell it for you. The next owner will get a service history down to individidual light bulb replacements (stuff like Replace PAR 16 12v light bulb .... $28.95). I may not be able to afford that sort of thing, but I admire it enormously. Okay, back to reality. If I have aroud $20k to spend on a nice circa 18-20' runabout, what really are the best quality choices? What is the difference, in reality, between a $20,000-odd 20' Bayliner and a $45,000-odd 20' Cobalt? Thanks for your thoughts! D |
#6
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posted to rec.boats
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Harry Krause wrote:
If by ocean, you mean a mile or so offshore on decent days and you are familiar with Florida's weather patterns, there's nothing wrong with an ocean-sized Bayliner of 20 or more feet. That is how the "average" family boater wants to use the boat. As you emphasized, Florida's weather pattern can make for drastic and rather fast changes in the weather. Even if you are only 1 mile off shore, you really have to keep an eye on the horizon and listen to the NOAA weather station. While Florida is notorious for fast changing weather, summer is ripe for afternoon Thunderstorms with high winds and wind shear. We have had "Thunderstorms" flip houseboats on our lake. -- Reggie That's my story and I am sticking to it. |
#7
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posted to rec.boats
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seeray28(steve) wrote:
Last year my admiral and I were in the market for a new boat, we looked at the Glastron,Seeray, Tahoe, and Bayliner. all in the 10-18k range. All the boats were approx 18ft. We chose the Bayliner 175. $11,500 for boat and trailer. It is a VERY basic boat, but for what we do thats actually a good thing. Did we get the fancy interior of the other boats? No, but we did get a very user friendly interior. Did we get the fancy clamshell engine cover with the gas operated lift? Nope on that as well, the engine cover lifts out and you put it to the side. What we did get was a very basic boat that meets all coast gaurd guidelines that sees all the same scenery that the more expensive boats see's. It has the Merc 3.0 and alpha drive, the same engine/drive combo that just about all the other boats have. We are very happy with this boat, Starts right up, goes about 45mph, doesnt burn much gas, handles well and rides good for a 17.5 boat. If your looking to spend money on a new boat, you really cant beat the Bayliner line. What they do is design a boat that has all the BASICS in it. You ask what the difference is between a 20k bayliner and a 45k other brand. Well its not the engines/outdrives., Nowadays its either Volvopenta or Merc. Its the extras that the other brands put into thier boats. We didnot get a radio in our boat, nor a depth finder, nor a bimini top (I REALLY got to get one this year). It didnt come with the laminate wood dashboard, the gas operated lift mechanicals for the engine hatch, the fiberglass covered floor. But it did come with a gelcoated dash, removable engine hatch , carpeted floor. As stated its a basic boat. The extras are very nice but you have to pay for them. Keep it simple! I've never owned a car with power windows/locks etc. As long as your arms work...why pay extra for mechanical/electrical systems that can fail & might be expensive to replace. |
#8
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posted to rec.boats
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Don White wrote:
seeray28(steve) wrote: Last year my admiral and I were in the market for a new boat, we looked at the Glastron,Seeray, Tahoe, and Bayliner. all in the 10-18k range. All the boats were approx 18ft. We chose the Bayliner 175. $11,500 for boat and trailer. It is a VERY basic boat, but for what we do thats actually a good thing. Did we get the fancy interior of the other boats? No, but we did get a very user friendly interior. Did we get the fancy clamshell engine cover with the gas operated lift? Nope on that as well, the engine cover lifts out and you put it to the side. What we did get was a very basic boat that meets all coast gaurd guidelines that sees all the same scenery that the more expensive boats see's. It has the Merc 3.0 and alpha drive, the same engine/drive combo that just about all the other boats have. We are very happy with this boat, Starts right up, goes about 45mph, doesnt burn much gas, handles well and rides good for a 17.5 boat. If your looking to spend money on a new boat, you really cant beat the Bayliner line. What they do is design a boat that has all the BASICS in it. You ask what the difference is between a 20k bayliner and a 45k other brand. Well its not the engines/outdrives., Nowadays its either Volvopenta or Merc. Its the extras that the other brands put into thier boats. We didnot get a radio in our boat, nor a depth finder, nor a bimini top (I REALLY got to get one this year). It didnt come with the laminate wood dashboard, the gas operated lift mechanicals for the engine hatch, the fiberglass covered floor. But it did come with a gelcoated dash, removable engine hatch , carpeted floor. As stated its a basic boat. The extras are very nice but you have to pay for them. Keep it simple! I've never owned a car with power windows/locks etc. As long as your arms work...why pay extra for mechanical/electrical systems that can fail & might be expensive to replace. Don, While in principle I agree with you, especially on a boat exposed to the elements, I didn't even know they still made cars without power windows and door locks. ![]() With boats and cars, I would seriously consider buying the popular options, even if it was not a high priority to me, if I was considering the resale value of the boat/car. If you plan on keeping the boat/car till it is ready for the scrap heap, it is not important. -- Reggie That's my story and I am sticking to it. |
#9
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posted to rec.boats
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Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
Don White wrote: seeray28(steve) wrote: Last year my admiral and I were in the market for a new boat, we looked at the Glastron,Seeray, Tahoe, and Bayliner. all in the 10-18k range. All the boats were approx 18ft. We chose the Bayliner 175. $11,500 for boat and trailer. It is a VERY basic boat, but for what we do thats actually a good thing. Did we get the fancy interior of the other boats? No, but we did get a very user friendly interior. Did we get the fancy clamshell engine cover with the gas operated lift? Nope on that as well, the engine cover lifts out and you put it to the side. What we did get was a very basic boat that meets all coast gaurd guidelines that sees all the same scenery that the more expensive boats see's. It has the Merc 3.0 and alpha drive, the same engine/drive combo that just about all the other boats have. We are very happy with this boat, Starts right up, goes about 45mph, doesnt burn much gas, handles well and rides good for a 17.5 boat. If your looking to spend money on a new boat, you really cant beat the Bayliner line. What they do is design a boat that has all the BASICS in it. You ask what the difference is between a 20k bayliner and a 45k other brand. Well its not the engines/outdrives., Nowadays its either Volvopenta or Merc. Its the extras that the other brands put into thier boats. We didnot get a radio in our boat, nor a depth finder, nor a bimini top (I REALLY got to get one this year). It didnt come with the laminate wood dashboard, the gas operated lift mechanicals for the engine hatch, the fiberglass covered floor. But it did come with a gelcoated dash, removable engine hatch , carpeted floor. As stated its a basic boat. The extras are very nice but you have to pay for them. Keep it simple! I've never owned a car with power windows/locks etc. As long as your arms work...why pay extra for mechanical/electrical systems that can fail & might be expensive to replace. Don, While in principle I agree with you, especially on a boat exposed to the elements, I didn't even know they still made cars without power windows and door locks. ![]() With boats and cars, I would seriously consider buying the popular options, even if it was not a high priority to me, if I was considering the resale value of the boat/car. If you plan on keeping the boat/car till it is ready for the scrap heap, it is not important. My 2 month old 2006 Ford Ranger 'Sport' Super Cab has roll up windows and manual locks. 1995 mini-van...same. |
#10
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posted to rec.boats
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![]() "Don White" wrote in message ... Reginald P. Smithers wrote: Don White wrote: seeray28(steve) wrote: Last year my admiral and I were in the market for a new boat, we looked at the Glastron,Seeray, Tahoe, and Bayliner. all in the 10-18k range. All the boats were approx 18ft. We chose the Bayliner 175. $11,500 for boat and trailer. It is a VERY basic boat, but for what we do thats actually a good thing. Did we get the fancy interior of the other boats? No, but we did get a very user friendly interior. Did we get the fancy clamshell engine cover with the gas operated lift? Nope on that as well, the engine cover lifts out and you put it to the side. What we did get was a very basic boat that meets all coast gaurd guidelines that sees all the same scenery that the more expensive boats see's. It has the Merc 3.0 and alpha drive, the same engine/drive combo that just about all the other boats have. We are very happy with this boat, Starts right up, goes about 45mph, doesnt burn much gas, handles well and rides good for a 17.5 boat. If your looking to spend money on a new boat, you really cant beat the Bayliner line. What they do is design a boat that has all the BASICS in it. You ask what the difference is between a 20k bayliner and a 45k other brand. Well its not the engines/outdrives., Nowadays its either Volvopenta or Merc. Its the extras that the other brands put into thier boats. We didnot get a radio in our boat, nor a depth finder, nor a bimini top (I REALLY got to get one this year). It didnt come with the laminate wood dashboard, the gas operated lift mechanicals for the engine hatch, the fiberglass covered floor. But it did come with a gelcoated dash, removable engine hatch , carpeted floor. As stated its a basic boat. The extras are very nice but you have to pay for them. Keep it simple! I've never owned a car with power windows/locks etc. As long as your arms work...why pay extra for mechanical/electrical systems that can fail & might be expensive to replace. Don, While in principle I agree with you, especially on a boat exposed to the elements, I didn't even know they still made cars without power windows and door locks. ![]() With boats and cars, I would seriously consider buying the popular options, even if it was not a high priority to me, if I was considering the resale value of the boat/car. If you plan on keeping the boat/car till it is ready for the scrap heap, it is not important. My 2 month old 2006 Ford Ranger 'Sport' Super Cab has roll up windows and manual locks. 1995 mini-van...same. I would agree with Reggie regarding cars but not on boats. Upgrade options on boats can normally be retrofits and do not significantly add to the resale *price* of a used boat. They may however make the boat more attractive to prospective buyers. BTW Reggie, I never saw a car or boat that was not exposed to the elements. ;-) |
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