Hello all

I'm new to this newsgroup having recently taken up canoeing on some British
rivers.

Its been fasinating to read of your canoeing adventures.

I have a problem with an Old Town Discovery Scout and if someone with
experience in repairing these boats could give me some advice I would be
very grateful.

The problem is that the inner skin has separated from the outer hull over a
circular region of about 6inches diameter. A bubble has formed that is about
1 inch high inside the canoe. The outer hull feels very much weaker at that
point than elsewhere. The outer hull has a deep dent there which disappears
when the canoe warms up in sunshine. The problem area is on the left hand
side about 6inches in front of the front seat.

I have taken the canoe down the river Wye in Wales UK without any major
problems even though the water level was low enough to turn the rapids into
rock slides, but I am concerned that repeated rough treament like this will
cause a split at the weak section of the hull.

I have ordered an Old Town Discovery repair kit. My plan is as follows:-

1. Cut out the bubble in the inner skin exposing the inside of the outer
hull.
2. Clean the inside of the exposed outer hull skin then polarise with a
propane torch
3. Clean the inside of the section of inner skin just removed
4. Coat the exposed outer hull with the resin from the repair kit then
replace the removed section of inner skin
5. Apply pressure to the repair by bracing it from a temporary thwart and
leave to set
6. Add a patch overlapping the repair area (on the inside of the canoe )
using the fibreglass cloth from the repair kit


If anyone has any pointers, advice, alternative solutions or warnings of any
potential pitfalls with this approach I would love to hear them. I've heard
that working with polyethylene hulls is not exactly straightforward and i
would hate to make the problem worse.

Thanks in anticipation

Mike

Your proposed solution looks good to me. Several of my friends have repaired
polyethylene boats this way. I believe the trickiest part is polarizing the
skin. I am told that you need to "paint the area" with the blue portion of
the flame quickly. After doing the inside, if the outside dent is not cut or
punctured, I would not bother putting a patch over it.
______________________
Sincerely,
Carey Robson
www.CanoeBC.ca

"Mike Lambert" wrote in message
...
Hello all

I'm new to this newsgroup having recently taken up canoeing on some
British
rivers.

Its been fasinating to read of your canoeing adventures.

I have a problem with an Old Town Discovery Scout and if someone with
experience in repairing these boats could give me some advice I would be
very grateful.

The problem is that the inner skin has separated from the outer hull over
a
circular region of about 6inches diameter. A bubble has formed that is
about
1 inch high inside the canoe. The outer hull feels very much weaker at
that
point than elsewhere. The outer hull has a deep dent there which
disappears
when the canoe warms up in sunshine. The problem area is on the left hand
side about 6inches in front of the front seat.

I have taken the canoe down the river Wye in Wales UK without any major
problems even though the water level was low enough to turn the rapids
into
rock slides, but I am concerned that repeated rough treament like this
will
cause a split at the weak section of the hull.

I have ordered an Old Town Discovery repair kit. My plan is as follows:-

1. Cut out the bubble in the inner skin exposing the inside of the outer
hull.
2. Clean the inside of the exposed outer hull skin then polarise with a
propane torch
3. Clean the inside of the section of inner skin just removed
4. Coat the exposed outer hull with the resin from the repair kit then
replace the removed section of inner skin
5. Apply pressure to the repair by bracing it from a temporary thwart and
leave to set
6. Add a patch overlapping the repair area (on the inside of the canoe )
using the fibreglass cloth from the repair kit


If anyone has any pointers, advice, alternative solutions or warnings of
any
potential pitfalls with this approach I would love to hear them. I've
heard
that working with polyethylene hulls is not exactly straightforward and i
would hate to make the problem worse.

Thanks in anticipation

Mike

On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 20:15:13 +0100, Mike Lambert wrote:

Hello all

I'm new to this newsgroup having recently taken up canoeing on some British
rivers.

Its been fasinating to read of your canoeing adventures.

I have a problem with an Old Town Discovery Scout and if someone with
experience in repairing these boats could give me some advice I would be
very grateful.

The problem is that the inner skin has separated from the outer hull over a
circular region of about 6inches diameter. A bubble has formed that is about
1 inch high inside the canoe. The outer hull feels very much weaker at that
point than elsewhere. The outer hull has a deep dent there which disappears
when the canoe warms up in sunshine. The problem area is on the left hand
side about 6inches in front of the front seat.

I have taken the canoe down the river Wye in Wales UK without any major
problems even though the water level was low enough to turn the rapids into
rock slides, but I am concerned that repeated rough treament like this will
cause a split at the weak section of the hull.

I have ordered an Old Town Discovery repair kit. My plan is as follows:-

1. Cut out the bubble in the inner skin exposing the inside of the outer
hull.
2. Clean the inside of the exposed outer hull skin then polarise with a
propane torch
3. Clean the inside of the section of inner skin just removed
4. Coat the exposed outer hull with the resin from the repair kit then
replace the removed section of inner skin
5. Apply pressure to the repair by bracing it from a temporary thwart and
leave to set
6. Add a patch overlapping the repair area (on the inside of the canoe )
using the fibreglass cloth from the repair kit


If anyone has any pointers, advice, alternative solutions or warnings of any
potential pitfalls with this approach I would love to hear them. I've heard
that working with polyethylene hulls is not exactly straightforward and i
would hate to make the problem worse.

Thanks in anticipation

Mike

I developed a technique for repairing the separated hull of a Hobie 16
that sounds like it could work for you as well, without having to do
major skin repair.

Basically, I used a basting needle from Walmart, and injected Gorilla
glue into the void. The Gorilla glue requires some moisture to
activate the foaming action, so you may have to inject some water
first if the void is dry. Typically, at least for the Hobie, the
separation is due to moisture, so the glue foams without additional
water.

The glue foams up, fills the void, and dries waterproof. You only need
to drill small holes to insert needle through inner skin, then fill
the holes afterwards. You would possibly need to clamp the skin in
shape so that the foaming glue does not further distort the inner hull
shape. Drill your holes first, to give excess glue an escape vent to
relieve pressure.

The final result should be a firm hull with no softspots. If you find
a small softspot, all you need to do is inject a little more glue in
that area. I repaired some rather large areas of my Hobie, with just
one bottle of glue, and ended up with a very firm hull. HYY

Thanks Carey

Do you have any idea how long I should hold the flame on the skin for?
Presumably its just a few seconds.

Carey Robson wrote:
Your proposed solution looks good to me. Several of my friends have repaired
polyethylene boats this way. I believe the trickiest part is polarizing the
skin. I am told that you need to "paint the area" with the blue portion of
the flame quickly. After doing the inside, if the outside dent is not cut or
punctured, I would not bother putting a patch over it.
______________________
Sincerely,
Carey Robson
www.CanoeBC.ca

"Mike Lambert" wrote in message
...
Hello all

I'm new to this newsgroup having recently taken up canoeing on some
British
rivers.

Its been fasinating to read of your canoeing adventures.

I have a problem with an Old Town Discovery Scout and if someone with
experience in repairing these boats could give me some advice I would be
very grateful.

The problem is that the inner skin has separated from the outer hull over
a
circular region of about 6inches diameter. A bubble has formed that is
about
1 inch high inside the canoe. The outer hull feels very much weaker at
that
point than elsewhere. The outer hull has a deep dent there which
disappears
when the canoe warms up in sunshine. The problem area is on the left hand
side about 6inches in front of the front seat.

I have taken the canoe down the river Wye in Wales UK without any major
problems even though the water level was low enough to turn the rapids
into
rock slides, but I am concerned that repeated rough treament like this
will
cause a split at the weak section of the hull.

I have ordered an Old Town Discovery repair kit. My plan is as follows:-

1. Cut out the bubble in the inner skin exposing the inside of the outer
hull.
2. Clean the inside of the exposed outer hull skin then polarise with a
propane torch
3. Clean the inside of the section of inner skin just removed
4. Coat the exposed outer hull with the resin from the repair kit then
replace the removed section of inner skin
5. Apply pressure to the repair by bracing it from a temporary thwart and
leave to set
6. Add a patch overlapping the repair area (on the inside of the canoe )
using the fibreglass cloth from the repair kit


If anyone has any pointers, advice, alternative solutions or warnings of
any
potential pitfalls with this approach I would love to hear them. I've
heard
that working with polyethylene hulls is not exactly straightforward and i
would hate to make the problem worse.

Thanks in anticipation

Mike

Thanks Hanta-Yo-Yo

This sounds much more simple that my plan. I've never heard of
gorilla glue - I wonder if I can get it in the UK. Have to do some
searching.

Thanks again

Hanta-Yo-Yo wrote:
On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 20:15:13 +0100, Mike Lambert wrote:

Hello all

I'm new to this newsgroup having recently taken up canoeing on some British
rivers.

Its been fasinating to read of your canoeing adventures.

I have a problem with an Old Town Discovery Scout and if someone with
experience in repairing these boats could give me some advice I would be
very grateful.

The problem is that the inner skin has separated from the outer hull over a
circular region of about 6inches diameter. A bubble has formed that is about
1 inch high inside the canoe. The outer hull feels very much weaker at that
point than elsewhere. The outer hull has a deep dent there which disappears
when the canoe warms up in sunshine. The problem area is on the left hand
side about 6inches in front of the front seat.

I have taken the canoe down the river Wye in Wales UK without any major
problems even though the water level was low enough to turn the rapids into
rock slides, but I am concerned that repeated rough treament like this will
cause a split at the weak section of the hull.

I have ordered an Old Town Discovery repair kit. My plan is as follows:-

1. Cut out the bubble in the inner skin exposing the inside of the outer
hull.
2. Clean the inside of the exposed outer hull skin then polarise with a
propane torch
3. Clean the inside of the section of inner skin just removed
4. Coat the exposed outer hull with the resin from the repair kit then
replace the removed section of inner skin
5. Apply pressure to the repair by bracing it from a temporary thwart and
leave to set
6. Add a patch overlapping the repair area (on the inside of the canoe )
using the fibreglass cloth from the repair kit


If anyone has any pointers, advice, alternative solutions or warnings of any
potential pitfalls with this approach I would love to hear them. I've heard
that working with polyethylene hulls is not exactly straightforward and i
would hate to make the problem worse.

Thanks in anticipation

Mike

I developed a technique for repairing the separated hull of a Hobie 16
that sounds like it could work for you as well, without having to do
major skin repair.

Basically, I used a basting needle from Walmart, and injected Gorilla
glue into the void. The Gorilla glue requires some moisture to
activate the foaming action, so you may have to inject some water
first if the void is dry. Typically, at least for the Hobie, the
separation is due to moisture, so the glue foams without additional
water.

The glue foams up, fills the void, and dries waterproof. You only need
to drill small holes to insert needle through inner skin, then fill
the holes afterwards. You would possibly need to clamp the skin in
shape so that the foaming glue does not further distort the inner hull
shape. Drill your holes first, to give excess glue an escape vent to
relieve pressure.

The final result should be a firm hull with no softspots. If you find
a small softspot, all you need to do is inject a little more glue in
that area. I repaired some rather large areas of my Hobie, with just
one bottle of glue, and ended up with a very firm hull. HYY

Gorilla Glue is just a one part moisture cure urethane that is very common
in the woodworking area (http://www.gorillaglue.com/include/uk/E.htm).
Henkel makes them amongst others and sells theirs under the Sumo Glue brand
in the US. , Bostik also has one--in fact, most major adhesive companies
probably do. Check out your local DIY.

The thing to watch for is that each one foams differently, e.g. sumo is
supposedly lower foam (I've not used this brand). I suggest you test
whichever one you buy first to get an idea about how much you'll need to
use. If you inject too much, it will further stress the outer layer and
could possibly rupture it.

The inside surface should be damp, not soaking wet.

Kudos' to Mike for a great idea!


"gellybeans" wrote in message
oups.com...

Thanks Hanta-Yo-Yo

This sounds much more simple that my plan. I've never heard of
gorilla glue - I wonder if I can get it in the UK. Have to do some
searching.

Thanks again

Hanta-Yo-Yo wrote:
On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 20:15:13 +0100, Mike Lambert wrote:

Hello all

I'm new to this newsgroup having recently taken up canoeing on some
British
rivers.

Its been fasinating to read of your canoeing adventures.

I have a problem with an Old Town Discovery Scout and if someone with
experience in repairing these boats could give me some advice I would
be
very grateful.

The problem is that the inner skin has separated from the outer hull
over a
circular region of about 6inches diameter. A bubble has formed that is
about
1 inch high inside the canoe. The outer hull feels very much weaker at
that
point than elsewhere. The outer hull has a deep dent there which
disappears
when the canoe warms up in sunshine. The problem area is on the left
hand
side about 6inches in front of the front seat.

I have taken the canoe down the river Wye in Wales UK without any
major
problems even though the water level was low enough to turn the rapids
into
rock slides, but I am concerned that repeated rough treament like this
will
cause a split at the weak section of the hull.

I have ordered an Old Town Discovery repair kit. My plan is as
follows:-

1. Cut out the bubble in the inner skin exposing the inside of the
outer
hull.
2. Clean the inside of the exposed outer hull skin then polarise with
a
propane torch
3. Clean the inside of the section of inner skin just removed
4. Coat the exposed outer hull with the resin from the repair kit then
replace the removed section of inner skin
5. Apply pressure to the repair by bracing it from a temporary thwart
and
leave to set
6. Add a patch overlapping the repair area (on the inside of the
canoe )
using the fibreglass cloth from the repair kit


If anyone has any pointers, advice, alternative solutions or warnings
of any
potential pitfalls with this approach I would love to hear them. I've
heard
that working with polyethylene hulls is not exactly straightforward
and i
would hate to make the problem worse.

Thanks in anticipation

Mike

I developed a technique for repairing the separated hull of a Hobie 16
that sounds like it could work for you as well, without having to do
major skin repair.

Basically, I used a basting needle from Walmart, and injected Gorilla
glue into the void. The Gorilla glue requires some moisture to
activate the foaming action, so you may have to inject some water
first if the void is dry. Typically, at least for the Hobie, the
separation is due to moisture, so the glue foams without additional
water.

The glue foams up, fills the void, and dries waterproof. You only need
to drill small holes to insert needle through inner skin, then fill
the holes afterwards. You would possibly need to clamp the skin in
shape so that the foaming glue does not further distort the inner hull
shape. Drill your holes first, to give excess glue an escape vent to
relieve pressure.

The final result should be a firm hull with no softspots. If you find
a small softspot, all you need to do is inject a little more glue in
that area. I repaired some rather large areas of my Hobie, with just
one bottle of glue, and ended up with a very firm hull. HYY