On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:26:17 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:09:10 +0000, none ""tpg\"@(none)" wrote:

Yamaha 4 Stroke vs Evinrude E-TEC (gpe2468) 10:55 AM 6/16/2006

If anybody would like to read the whole message thread on this, please
to go he

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=501507

The OP traces to Melbourne, Australia. You don't think she's back, do you?

thunder wrote:
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:26:17 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:09:10 +0000, none ""tpg\"@(none)" wrote:

Yamaha 4 Stroke vs Evinrude E-TEC (gpe2468) 10:55 AM 6/16/2006

If anybody would like to read the whole message thread on this, please
to go he

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=501507

The OP traces to Melbourne, Australia. You don't think she's back, do you?

Absolutely! There is no other person in the world that has this bitter,
nasty attitude over a particular outboard motor!

As overboard as she goes from a technical perspective I'm inclined to
agree with some of it. To me one of the key things about the basic 2
stroke is it's simplicity. That's pretty much lost on these new 2
strokes. And it does seem that burning oil and reducing emissions are
not exactly compatible. When the motorcycle industry was confronted
with this problem they simply phased out the two strokes from the
street and went all 4 stroke. I don't see any reason not to do the
same with outboards. I know some people complain they are heavier. I
think that will improve with time as volume allows more expensive
lighter weight materials to be incorporated. And 4 strokes by design
have a wider and smoother power band than 2 strokes can.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a two stroke fan. My boat is a v8 but all my
lawn and garden equipment is two stroke. Of course it's not subject to
any regulations yet so it's all still the way two strokes were meant to
be, simple.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On 31 Oct 2006 04:54:41 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


Absolutely! There is no other person in the world that has [ insert here ] bitter,
nasty attitude over a particular outboard motor!

.....[been consumed by this irrational,] .....

...and yes, it appears with a new nom de plume and ISP.... she's
back....
--


Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/
-----------------
www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed*
Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
-----------------

There is a big difference between the small engine changes and what
they are doing to large 2 strokes. The small two strokes still use a
premixed gas and oil and are still carburated.

wrote:
On 31 Oct 2006 06:13:35 -0800, "jamesgangnc"
wrote:

As overboard as she goes from a technical perspective I'm inclined to
agree with some of it. To me one of the key things about the basic 2
stroke is it's simplicity. That's pretty much lost on these new 2
strokes. And it does seem that burning oil and reducing emissions are
not exactly compatible. When the motorcycle industry was confronted
with this problem they simply phased out the two strokes from the
street and went all 4 stroke. I don't see any reason not to do the
same with outboards. I know some people complain they are heavier. I
think that will improve with time as volume allows more expensive
lighter weight materials to be incorporated. And 4 strokes by design
have a wider and smoother power band than 2 strokes can.


The trouble with her posts rests in the fact that "figures don't lie,"
but "liars can figure." When one must scour the net in search of data
and then sift through the results deleting facts and figures that
don't support the desired conclusion... we don't end up with much in
the way of reality. I don't care much to dialog (or diatribe, as the
case may be) with someone grinding a personal axe in their own
personal reality.... and that is what her posts regarding anything
vaguely resembling Ficht technology have devolved into.

Personally, I really don't care for these highly computerized
2-strokes and if they go wrong they can *really* go wrong.... but by
now, anybody familiar with boating has heard of these issues and the
informed consumer has acted accordingly.... regarding their personal
comfort level with the technology.

Too many people report trouble free operation to issue blanket
condemnation on the science behind the technology. On the other hand,
IMHO, if you buy a simple mechanical contrivance (an engine, for
example) connected to an array of sensors and a computerized
management system.... it is just a matter of time before you are going
to have big trouble. Its just Murphy's Law.

Personally, I gladly opted for 4-strokes...... and they actually weigh
less than the 2-strokes they replaced. I've never been all that sold
on 2-strokes, anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a two stroke fan. My boat is a v8 but all my
lawn and garden equipment is two stroke. Of course it's not subject to
any regulations yet so it's all still the way two strokes were meant to
be, simple.

Don't bet on that...... if they were produced after 1997....
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/f98025a.pdf
--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
-----------------
www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed*
Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
-----------------

Just passing & thought I'd paste you some of the posts, damn this is
really going to be more fun to watch than ficht:-)

Lean at power, poor atomisation, too low an injection pressure, lack of
lube.

Take care.

K





Offline

Member #10492
2325 posts
Miami Fl


Yamaha 4 Stroke vs Evinrude E-TEC (gpe2468) 10:55 AM 6/16/2006

The other day i spoke to someone whos on his 4th powerhead on a BRAND
NEW Etec. What a piece of garbage. Ive also read a couple of people here
on the forum complaining about there Etecs as well. My buddy did get a
sweet compensation tho....free oil .

Given your personal expereinces with your yammies why would you ever
consider changing to an Etec

I personally own a Fuel Inj 150 yammie and run it on an 18 Actioncraft.
Iam as happy as a pig in . Boat runs at 52-53 and cruises at 45 no
problemo, regardless of load.

My advice.....Yammie, hands down

Modified by Action 18 at 10:55 AM 6/16/2006


E-TEC Issues 9:27 AM 10/24/2006

I have a 2006 Bluewater 2350 w/ 250hp E-TEC. The motor is almost 11
months old and I have had a rash of problems.

-Needed hub cooling kit, kept spinning props
-Needed deflector pin upgrade because of poor idling and fouled plugs
-Bad iCommand power cable harness
-Replaced entire trim/tilt unit
-Blown lower unit (just this past weekend)

I was wondering who else is having problems. This is not a 'bash
evinrude' thread. I really like what the E-TEC was designed to do so
maybe I just have the 1 lemon out of 1000. I have found a good local
dealer here in Tampa (Don's Outboards) and they've been taking good care
of me.

Thoughts


Edmund Fitzgerald
Member



Offline

Member #32214
216 posts
Pompano Bch, FL


E-TEC Issues (Jeffishin') 9:54 AM 10/24/2006

Deflector pins here also and blown power head in 4 months of use....
Switching over to Suzuki's... If that helps.




my twin '06 200 ho have been in the shop 8 times since june and going
for 9 next week. plugs, pins, lower unit, overheat alarms (multiple
times), no oil alarms (multiple times), gauges and poor fuel economy.




Modified by mike c at 5:58 PM 10/24/2006

I run mine with 50:1 oil. I am not convinced that 100:1, even with
synthetic oil, is a good idea. I'll wait a couple of years and let you
other guys blow up the powerheads before deciding.



Mine break down more than a DC-8.

But in all seriousness I bought mine for a couple reasons and they have
only actually fulfilled one. I thought they would look nicer on my boat
because they are white and with everything else on my boat being white
they dont seem to have a harsh contrast to the rest of my boat. I really
like that part of them. Cant say much for the rest.


I had a few problems early with my engines but I really like them, they
run hard and I've pushed them hard. the issues that I have had Evinrude
has take care of and I've been happy with the service and use of them.

-Needed deflector pin upgrade because of poor idling and fouled plugs
-Bad iCommand power cable harness
-Blown powerhead on delivery

Even though I had issue with them I don't regret purchasing them.


I have the 115 and the problems I have been having are with the wiring.
For example I had a wire that was rubbing against a head bolt for a year
and then when I was 15 miles offshore the engine died. I got a tow back
in but I found out. That the head bolt had rubbed the plastic covering
off the wire and when ever the wire touched the head bolt the engine
would die. That was the biggie but I have had other problems that I have
never had with my old merc. But it looks soo sweet on my boat.


-Needed deflector pin upgrade because of poor idling and fouled plugs
-Bad iCommand power cable harness
-Blown powerhead on delivery



just because hey say that the engines have no SCHEDULED maintenance
doesn't mean you don't have to do it it just means they don't tell you
when to do it.



Oh what have I gotten myself into now. Brand new 250 etec with 6 hrs on
it. The trim/tilt switch on the binaacle has quit, but the one on the
motor still works and it overheated while trolling this weekend. Bad I
command guages delayed the delivery of the boat too. After all of the
talk about power heads going I am really afraid mine will go beacuse I
am running the 100:1 and it will strand me offshore. Then I will fix it
sell the boat and get another one made with the 300zuke.


I have an '05 225 E-tec that I had rigged in May of '05 and currently
have just over 300 hours on it. The following is a list of issues:
1. Crank Position sensor changed
2. Deflector Pins changed
3. Low pressure fuel pump changed
4. Hub cooling kit installed
5. several sets of spark plugs

Main issue was bogging down after several hours of high speed trolling.
Since the low pressure fuel pump has been changed, I have not had the
issue again.

In addition, as the BRP team tested the setup on the bright blue
metalflake Bullet, the new gearcase began to exhibit a few problems. The
extreme engine height required to extract the best top speeds from the
combo began to take its toll, and the unit began to have problems
heating up. The results almost halted the test; the Hydromotive prop it
was turning began to experience hub failures (the plastic hub insert
kept melting), and the lower unit’s bearing carrier began to lose its
seals. In addition, the bearing carrier itself began to rotate inside
the lower unit housing. In the end, Foy had to reseal the carrier and
re-install it at a local dealer.

THe hub cooling kit/spun hub issues are a result of Evinrude not having
done enough R&D on their new lower units for the E-TECs before bringing
them to market. They had the same issues on the 225 E-TECs in the Bass
and Walleye Boats 225 shootout with hubs melting and seals warping:

Here, this one is on topic.

Own a 90hp ETEC. Two blown powerheads in 300hrs of use , less than a
year & 1/2 since purchased. Of course my oil warning came on too, but
that's nothing. Having to get towed from 10 miles offshore .
I can't complain about the customer service though. The first blown
power head I was given a case of XD100 and a new SS Viper prop. The
second time just a case of XD100. At this rate I won't have to buy
oil......ever. I should be due for another break down and a case of oil.
Other than two blown power heads, I have not had any other problems.
Funny because last time I blew a power head, I made a post in the South
General and it was removed. Seems like the moderators here can do what
ever they want as long as it is in their interest.


I repowered with '05 200's (big blocks). I have had issues of oil
alarm(s) on one engine & the oil pump/sensor replaced 2 times. Pin
deflectors & MAP updates coincided with the Oil issues so I killed 2
birds with 1 stone. My port engine's lower unit was defective from the
get go and was replaced. It did not break or strand me, but it hasn't
left me with great feelings having purchased new engines that are having
more problems than my old ones.

I was able to get the boat on plane & run in @ 36 mph on one engine.
That was a surprise to me as I was pushing the one engine @ 4700 rpm. I
did not want to take chances with the troubled engine, besides the
engine would go into "safe" mode & prevent running it.

I have not been happy with all of the problems I have encountered. The
service is great & they are quick to resolve issues. I just don't like
having issues. I see that there really is a common list of issues alot
of people are having. I don't get to use the boat that frequently & it
when you experience problems with updates & breakdowns every other time
it is used.
My engines have 70 hours on them by the way.

I still have hope and I do hope I have worked out my engine's issues.

snip
Too many people report trouble free operation to issue blanket
condemnation on the science behind the technology. On the other hand,
IMHO, if you buy a simple mechanical contrivance (an engine, for
example) connected to an array of sensors and a computerized
management system.... it is just a matter of time before you are going
to have big trouble. Its just Murphy's Law.


Kinda like a modern automobile engine, eh? 8)


snip

Yes, I did. But the point I was trying to make was that it wasn't all
mucked up by regulations yet. I know the lawn mower is not going to escape
forever. I've heard a lawn mower makes more emissions than a car on the
highway for the same amount of time.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On 31 Oct 2006 10:29:42 -0800, jamesgangnc penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

There is a big difference between the small engine changes and what
they are doing to large 2 strokes. The small two strokes still use a
premixed gas and oil and are still carburated.

That isn't what I was saying. You said, "it's not subject to
any regulations yet so it's all still the way two strokes were meant
to be, simple." I was merely pointing out that even 2-stroke lawn and
garden engines now have EPA guidelines...
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/f98025a.pdf


--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

none ""tpg\"@(none)" wrote in :

E-TEC Issues

How does E-Tec differ from Ficht? I've lost track of the fuel injected
disasters of late....



Larry
--
I'm manning the talking pumpkin, tonight, same as every Halloween. Most
kids never talked to a pumpkin with a
candle in it, before.
(Radio Shack little intercom makes it easier to hear them,
this year.)

When he brings back his friends, the stupid pumpkin says
nothing. Pumpkins can't talk, you know....(c;

If he/she comes to the door and says the pumpkin talked to
him/her, he/she gets a golden dollar coin, instead of the

ksmith wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:52:27 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote:


On 31 Oct 2006 04:54:41 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:



Absolutely! There is no other person in the world that has [ insert
here ] bitter,
nasty attitude over a particular outboard motor!


.....[been consumed by this irrational,] .....

...and yes, it appears with a new nom de plume and ISP.... she's
back....



It won't be long and she'll be gone again.


Only "if" it suits me :-)

As for cherry picking well yes hands up to that, but hey when was your
last or ever post about ficht e-tec where you gave other than your
marketing BS??

Anyway yep back no intention ever to hide or no archive or any of that
(sorry about the header had to crank the old mozilla up & didn't fix the
name, oops). Did love your fuel use claims they're getting even worse:-)



K

Oh oh! Must be Halloween.
The un-dead have risen again.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
none ""tpg\"@(none)" wrote in :

E-TEC Issues

How does E-Tec differ from Ficht? I've lost track of the fuel injected
disasters of late....


You'll need to wear a different model tin-foil hat to protect yourself from
the slightly different radiation emitted by the E-Tecs, Larry. Available at
WhackJobs-R-Us.