Remember these are not "my" posts but pastes of stuff I've come across
in the forums.

Seems they're even asking paying customers to do the R&D for them???

Anyway:-)


Pastes;

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: ETEC Cold Water
Performance Reply with quote
With all the recent comments on which outboard to use for powering a
C-Dory, I have to relate my experience to date with a 90 ETEC. Since
taking delivery of a CD22 in April, I have put 114 hours on the main
engine. My overall assessment at this point is the ETEC is not suitable
for use in cold water climates (water temperatures less than 50 degrees
F). The reasons for this assessment are based on several PM's between
Dusty and I comparing the performance of his engine to mine and the fact
that Evinrude could not explain the differences. Here are the problems I
encountered:

a. During April, May, and part of June the EMM would return a no oil
alarm after a few minutes of operation. The alarm could be cleared and
the engine would operate normally if the oil system was primed using the
instructions in the owner's manual. The problem cleared in June after
replacing the oil tank which included all the sensors but that coincided
with higher air and water termperatures. When the problem recurred the
end of September, Evinrude went back to the drawing board and finally
came up with the solution. Apparently the recommended XD100 oil
viscosity increases so much with declining temperatures, it does not
flow well enough to keep the sensors convinced the engine is getting
oil. Evinrude recommended using SkiDoo XPS synthetic snow machine oil.
In the last 12.4 hours of operation during temperatures ranging between
28 and 48 degrees F, I had no oil alarms. I think this problem is
finally behind me.

b. Oil consumption over the 114 hours was approximately 3 times the oil
consumption expected (and seen by Dusty). Evinrude examined engine
reports on two occasions and after more than a month recommended the
dealer look at the cooling system as their assessment the motor was
running too cold. Their review of engine operating showed that it should
have consumed 1.2 gallons of oil during which time I had used 3.5
gallons. The dealer found that the thermostat was allowing the engine to
run 30 degrees cooler than a new thermostat. When I ran the boat with
the new thermostat, the engine sounded much different, (it was quieter),
ran smoother over the full rpm range, and fuel economy increase almost
30% (from 3.5 to 4.5 mpg with the same load). Prior to the new
thermostat, the engine showed its best fuel economy at WOT.

c. During extensive low speed trolling the engine fouled the plugs.
After trolling for approximately 2.5 hours, when increasing the throttle
the engine was missing on two of three cylinders for about 5 seconds and
eventually smoothed out.

d. On my last trip, the water temperatures averaged between 40 and 45
degrees F and the air temperature was between 25 and 45 degrees F. Fuel
consumption declined back to the 3 to 3.5 mpg range, and oil consumption
was unchanged. The engine got its best fuel economy at WOT.

My assessment is the cooling system on the ETEC does not allow the
engine to reach the proper operating temperature to run efficiently in
cold environments where the air and water temperatures are below 50
degrees F.

If anyone has any different experience in a cold environment, I would
like to here about it.
_________________
Tom

Sure it's not "our" pet Tom:-)

No seriously are they really saying the "best" fuel economy is at WOT
well gee is it because this bloke has problems at trolling speeds??
again they blame the poor victim. Further down he even says they have to
be kidding, but we all know they're not:-)

paste

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:33 am Post subject: Reply with quote
I think Dusty is running the same model (E90DSLSO). I have been talking
with BRP's customer service line regularly and the dealer and the dealer
has been talking with BRP. No one has been able to explain it. The
recommendation on using the SkiDoo XPS oil came from BRP. I think the
issue is water temperature and overall operating temperature for the
most part, but I still think there is an oil issue. I am hoping to get
time with the factory representative supporting Alaska in the next month
or so when he is in town.

I would appreciate any thing you can offer in the way of answers to
these questions.

Have you ever had an ETEC foul plugs?

Do you have any ETEC's on boats with fuel flow meters? Do they see best
fuel economy at WOT?

What oil consumption do you see on ETEC 90's operated on boats like a CD-22?


So then a new victim & he gets the same run around?? hey these E-Tec
victims are loyal ya gotta give it to them, I mean our Tom .......

Paste;

I have the same E-tec you have and ran it all summer. I have about the
same hours as yours around 115, at least going by what my Garmin GPS
says. Until I put the boat in the shop and have a laptop hooked up to it
to get the real hours thats the best reading I have. I was told that
with the XD 100 oil properly programed you should get 100 hours on a
tank of oil. I just started my second tank. He said that E-tec's
normally come programed for XD 50 oil and have to be programed for the
XD 100. The rate you are burning is the rate of XD 50 as I understand,
you might question that.

I do have the same problem with the plugs though. If I us it alot for
trolling the plugs do start to foul after a few hours, rough starting
back up and a little stinky but no smoke. This was not a problem at
first but started after around 40 hours. What I found was happening was
trolling was fouling the plugs enough to cause the electrode to burn and
widen the gap. The gap that should be 30 thousands +- 3% was out to 40
thousands. New set of plugs and I am back to normal running. I am now on
my 3rd set of plugs, not good since they are supposed to last 300 hours.
I am now setting up my kicker to troll with EZ Steer and Troll Master
for next year as I have no problem if I don't troll with it at below 900
rpm for long times. My E-tec mechanic say Evinrudes have had a lot of
problems in the past with running to cold at slow speeds in cold water
and thinks this may be the problem.

The oil light problem, yes I to had that problem too but with me it was
not a problem with the oil. I would start heading out, get about 5 min.
run time and light would come on an engine would kick into idle to
protect itself. I would reset every thing and it would be fine or maybe
do it one more time. Well what I found by looking at my fuel lines, it
was sucking all the fuel out of my kicker motor fuel line then sucking
air. In fact it sucked it so hard it broke the valve in the squeeze ball
for the kicker. I put fuel valves on both the main line and the kicker
line so I can turn off the one not in use and have not had it happen since.

Well that is my experience so far with my E-tec and the Mech's. I still
love the motor and have faith that they will work the few bugs out. Wink

Wayne


Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
At this point, I think I have the only ETEC used on sal****er. Most of
the others I am aware of are used on rivers and a lot of them are jets.
The jets are generally run at high rpm all the time, but the one I owner
I spoke with didn't see anything close to the oil consumption I experienced.

As far as software is concerned, I got the update in June and after the
most recent run of problems with the no oil alarm, the impression I got
from Evinrude was they thought the problem was solved with the patch,
but were starting to get some indications that wasn't true. That's why
they came up with the SkiDoo oil fix. They also were considering an
update to the XD100 blend. (For my money I would just relabel the XPS oil).

I really think I have two problems that are somewhat mutually
reinforcing. If the engine is running too cold, it will certainly burn
more fuel and oil. At the same time it shouldn't burn that much oil
given other owner's experiences. The conversation I had with BRP after
they examined the EMM engine report and told me I should have consumed
1.2 gallons of oil and I had put over 3.5 gallons in the engine was
quite interesting. It took a few minutes for the technician to
understand that regardless of what the software said, the motor went
through over 3.5 gallons of oil. BRP has asked for yet another engine
report, but the boat is stored for the winter. If I can get hold of a
PDA and cable, I should be able to get it for them, but I don't see
where I will get much done before spring. If BRP wants to try some cold
weather testing, I can probably help. Otherwise, I think their best move
is to take the engine off the boat and get it back to the factory and
see what's going on.


Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:18 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
We've pretty much tabled it until spring (March some time), but this
what I plan to do and Evinrude has agreed to help.

a. Install a new software map for the EMM.
b. Install new plugs since the current ones are pretty well fouled.
c. Switch back to XD100 oil.
d. Go out with a notebook computer running the BRP diagnostic software
connected to the engine for real time monitoring to determine actual
operating temperature and oil consumption.
e. Stay in cell phone range to discuss real time monitoring results with
BRP.

I wish I could have resolved this before winter, but it doesn't look
like it. The best I can tell my engine is the exception but that doesn't
necessarily make me any happier.

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:02 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Gary,

They didn't mention one, but mine involves the failure of 4 bolts in 600
feet of water.


K

"ksmith1" wrote in message
...
Remember these are not "my" posts but pastes of stuff I've come across
in the forums.



Pastes;

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: ETEC Cold Water
Performance Reply with quote
With all the recent comments on which outboard to use for powering a
C-Dory, I have to relate my experience to date with a 90 ETEC. Since
taking delivery of a CD22 in April, I have put 114 hours on the main
engine. My overall assessment at this point is the ETEC is not suitable
for use in cold water climates (water temperatures less than 50 degrees
F). The reasons for this assessment are based on several PM's between
Dusty and I comparing the performance of his engine to mine and the fact
that Evinrude could not explain the differences. Here are the problems I
encountered:

a. During April, May, and part of June the EMM would return a no oil
alarm after a few minutes of operation. The alarm could be cleared and
the engine would operate normally if the oil system was primed using the
instructions in the owner's manual. The problem cleared in June after
replacing the oil tank which included all the sensors but that coincided
with higher air and water termperatures. When the problem recurred the
end of September, Evinrude went back to the drawing board and finally
came up with the solution. Apparently the recommended XD100 oil
viscosity increases so much with declining temperatures, it does not
flow well enough to keep the sensors convinced the engine is getting
oil. Evinrude recommended using SkiDoo XPS synthetic snow machine oil.
In the last 12.4 hours of operation during temperatures ranging between
28 and 48 degrees F, I had no oil alarms. I think this problem is
finally behind me.

b. Oil consumption over the 114 hours was approximately 3 times the oil
consumption expected (and seen by Dusty). Evinrude examined engine
reports on two occasions and after more than a month recommended the
dealer look at the cooling system as their assessment the motor was
running too cold. Their review of engine operating showed that it should
have consumed 1.2 gallons of oil during which time I had used 3.5
gallons. The dealer found that the thermostat was allowing the engine to
run 30 degrees cooler than a new thermostat. When I ran the boat with
the new thermostat, the engine sounded much different, (it was quieter),
ran smoother over the full rpm range, and fuel economy increase almost
30% (from 3.5 to 4.5 mpg with the same load). Prior to the new
thermostat, the engine showed its best fuel economy at WOT.

c. During extensive low speed trolling the engine fouled the plugs.
After trolling for approximately 2.5 hours, when increasing the throttle
the engine was missing on two of three cylinders for about 5 seconds and
eventually smoothed out.

d. On my last trip, the water temperatures averaged between 40 and 45
degrees F and the air temperature was between 25 and 45 degrees F. Fuel
consumption declined back to the 3 to 3.5 mpg range, and oil consumption
was unchanged. The engine got its best fuel economy at WOT.

My assessment is the cooling system on the ETEC does not allow the
engine to reach the proper operating temperature to run efficiently in
cold environments where the air and water temperatures are below 50
degrees F.

If anyone has any different experience in a cold environment, I would
like to here about it.
_________________
Tom




Karen,

You forgot the later post from the same person. For your pleasure, I have
pasted it he



Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 12:15 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can now report that BRP fixed my motor last Wednesday by replacing a
leaking pressure relief valve and gasket. Basically for the last year I was
running cold water through the block. The BRP field technician explained
that up until 1800 RPM cooling is controlled by the thermostat. No water
should be flowing through the pressure valve. Above that rpm, the pressure
valve starts releasing water into the cooling jacket as the pressure builds
until it is fully open.

Over the last 5 days the motor was running as designed, with no plug
fouling at low speed, smooth idling even though cold (water temp about 36)
and air temps in the morning in the high 30's. Fuel economy was much
improved while going heavy (3 people, 2 kayaks, full fuel, water, beer,
food, inflatable, and just about everything else. On Navman fuel economy was
3.5 mpg. On return trip with only 2 people, 2 kayaks, one inflatable and
less of everything else was 3.8 mpg. All weekend I burned 25 gallons and
covered nearly 90 miles.
_________________
Tom

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 00:14:24 GMT, "Billgran"
wrote:


Karen,

You forgot the later post from the same person. For your pleasure, I have
pasted it he


E-TEC 9,999,999,999 - Karen 0.

~~ snerk ~~

Interesting that he gets about the same gph as I do and I've got the
big block V-6.

What's really interesting is his is a 90HP:-) putting out say 1/2 max HP
so to an experienced boater his numbers are believable indeed sound
about right (5.55 gph at a 20 knot cruise??). Whereas yours are for an
engine well over twice the HP & you're claiming GPH vs MPG; you are not
believable, to any actual boater with actual experience.

K

Billgran wrote:
"ksmith1" wrote in message
...

Remember these are not "my" posts but pastes of stuff I've come across
in the forums.




Pastes;

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: ETEC Cold Water
Performance Reply with quote
With all the recent comments on which outboard to use for powering a
C-Dory, I have to relate my experience to date with a 90 ETEC. Since
taking delivery of a CD22 in April, I have put 114 hours on the main
engine. My overall assessment at this point is the ETEC is not suitable
for use in cold water climates (water temperatures less than 50 degrees
F). The reasons for this assessment are based on several PM's between
Dusty and I comparing the performance of his engine to mine and the fact
that Evinrude could not explain the differences. Here are the problems I
encountered:

a. During April, May, and part of June the EMM would return a no oil
alarm after a few minutes of operation. The alarm could be cleared and
the engine would operate normally if the oil system was primed using the
instructions in the owner's manual. The problem cleared in June after
replacing the oil tank which included all the sensors but that coincided
with higher air and water termperatures. When the problem recurred the
end of September, Evinrude went back to the drawing board and finally
came up with the solution. Apparently the recommended XD100 oil
viscosity increases so much with declining temperatures, it does not
flow well enough to keep the sensors convinced the engine is getting
oil. Evinrude recommended using SkiDoo XPS synthetic snow machine oil.
In the last 12.4 hours of operation during temperatures ranging between
28 and 48 degrees F, I had no oil alarms. I think this problem is
finally behind me.

b. Oil consumption over the 114 hours was approximately 3 times the oil
consumption expected (and seen by Dusty). Evinrude examined engine
reports on two occasions and after more than a month recommended the
dealer look at the cooling system as their assessment the motor was
running too cold. Their review of engine operating showed that it should
have consumed 1.2 gallons of oil during which time I had used 3.5
gallons. The dealer found that the thermostat was allowing the engine to
run 30 degrees cooler than a new thermostat. When I ran the boat with
the new thermostat, the engine sounded much different, (it was quieter),
ran smoother over the full rpm range, and fuel economy increase almost
30% (from 3.5 to 4.5 mpg with the same load). Prior to the new
thermostat, the engine showed its best fuel economy at WOT.

c. During extensive low speed trolling the engine fouled the plugs.
After trolling for approximately 2.5 hours, when increasing the throttle
the engine was missing on two of three cylinders for about 5 seconds and
eventually smoothed out.

d. On my last trip, the water temperatures averaged between 40 and 45
degrees F and the air temperature was between 25 and 45 degrees F. Fuel
consumption declined back to the 3 to 3.5 mpg range, and oil consumption
was unchanged. The engine got its best fuel economy at WOT.

My assessment is the cooling system on the ETEC does not allow the
engine to reach the proper operating temperature to run efficiently in
cold environments where the air and water temperatures are below 50
degrees F.

If anyone has any different experience in a cold environment, I would
like to here about it.
_________________
Tom





Karen,

You forgot the later post from the same person. For your pleasure, I have
pasted it he



Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 12:15 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can now report that BRP fixed my motor last Wednesday by replacing a
leaking pressure relief valve and gasket. Basically for the last year I was
running cold water through the block. The BRP field technician explained
that up until 1800 RPM cooling is controlled by the thermostat. No water
should be flowing through the pressure valve. Above that rpm, the pressure
valve starts releasing water into the cooling jacket as the pressure builds
until it is fully open.

Over the last 5 days the motor was running as designed, with no plug
fouling at low speed, smooth idling even though cold (water temp about 36)
and air temps in the morning in the high 30's. Fuel economy was much
improved while going heavy (3 people, 2 kayaks, full fuel, water, beer,
food, inflatable, and just about everything else. On Navman fuel economy was
3.5 mpg. On return trip with only 2 people, 2 kayaks, one inflatable and
less of everything else was 3.8 mpg. All weekend I burned 25 gallons and
covered nearly 90 miles.
_________________
Tom




Gee Bill so they repaired it??? & that's good?? I mean the warranty is
enforceable yes??. But if the design was as it should be then these
things shouldn't happen at least not in the quantum they do with E-Tec??

I have noticed this time round you dealers have organised cheer squads
who bombard (little play on words there, did you get it??) any site that
publishes an E-Tec problem with testimonial "mine hasn't blown up"
stories:-) as if that even counts nor matters. If you want to do that
then start publishing the real numbers of problems?? then we can work
the odds out for ourselves. Till then it looks like my worst predictions
may have been light on.

At your worst you admitted 1 in 5 with Ficht & that means you'll always
gather up more none problem motors than problem ones, however these are
the same old same old, oiling, powerheads etc. & the pics the other day
are just what you & I have known for too many yrs to count; you can't
run engines lean at power, they get hot in the combustion chamber &
detonate to death.

I guess when they put new endless powerheads on under warranty that's OK
too?? It's worse than a repeat of Ficht from where I see it.

But thanks for again not abusing me; it's genuinely appreciated.

K

"ksmith1" wrote in message
...


At your worst you admitted 1 in 5 with Ficht & that means you'll always
gather up more none problem motors than problem ones...


I did not admit to that. It is a quote from the then president of OMC David
Jones in a press conference and it applied only to 25" shaft 150-175hp 1998
models. If you remember back then, I was the one who brought it to your
attention as you have no real info or knowledge, both now and back then, of
the outboard industry.

Billgran wrote:
"ksmith1" wrote in message
...


At your worst you admitted 1 in 5 with Ficht & that means you'll always
gather up more none problem motors than problem ones...



I did not admit to that. It is a quote from the then president of OMC David
Jones in a press conference and it applied only to 25" shaft 150-175hp 1998
models. If you remember back then, I was the one who brought it to your
attention as you have no real info or knowledge, both now and back then, of
the outboard industry.


Thanks for that Bill as you say "you" didn't "admit" anything & never
have:-) However my recollection was we already knew about the 1 in 5
failure number & yes you then confirmed the then boss of OMC as the
source. If you say that is not an admission, then I guess that's what
you say.

Clearly you'll never be making any admissions on E-Tec?? Although I
admit to being surprised the other day when you stopped Tom trying to
run his it's not an E-Tec it's a Ficht line; when confronted with melted
pistons, again thanks acknowledged as straight shooting & well done.

What say you now then about the fact that you've got the cheap to build
2 stroke old technology E-Tecs being priced 20% above the hi tech Mercs
or Yamahas???

Does the extra go into the dealers' pockets??? & is that why you will
say most anything to keep selling them?? is it a deal to recoup from an
unsuspecting public, your claimed losses on the Fichts?? I remember when
Ficht was in the same position OMC upped your total agg. kickbacks
(rebates & all the other) to 30%, so it seems you're on even better this
time, for a while:-)

K