On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:49:59 -0500, DSK wrote:

Chuck Gould wrote:
Did the ancient armies actually like bagpipe music? Hard to say. All I
know is that when you see drawings of some of the units marching into
battle they often have the piper on point. :-)


That wasn't by chance.


Here's a look at the audio torture device enroute to me via UPS Ground.
A "shuttle pipe" is not quite as loud as a Great Highland, but sounds
about the same. Biggest difference is that you can practice the shuttle
pipes indoors or play in a small room without being inappropriately
loud.

What's "inappropriately loud" mean?

Audible?

I happen to like bagpipe music, but it may be a genetically
acquired taste. A friend of mine has said that the best
thing about bagpipe music is that it serves as a warning:
"Men in kilts approaching."

I like it too, but normally only hear it from police funerals,
and documentaries about Scotland. Chuck's post has got me
interested in it a bit, and I think I'll listen to some recordings.
Or maybe look up an old buddy and record some myself.
One of us would do the background drone and the other
would vocalize da dada da da, dada dada.
No bagpipes used, but it was fun.

--Vic

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Chuck Gould wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:


Maybe the skill is handy for big funerals. Analogy: Hidden among the
population like terrorist cells are legions of bagpipe players. They
come
out of the woodwork for police funerals in some cities. I have no idea
why.
My best theory is that having to listen to bagpipe music should make
other
cops do a better job of looking out for their partners.

Shame on ya, McBedroom.

I've been taking bagpipe lessons for a couple of years, and I'm just
now about to graduate from the practice chanter to something with an
actual bag. I can extract house-rockin' music from anything with a
keyboard, blow a wicked blues harp, and while I sold my last guitar
about 30 years ago I could get my chops back with a few months of
practice. Learning the pipes is like learning a foreign language after
speaking English for 50 years.
The western scale? Forget it. Staff notation? Yeah, but don't pay
strict attention to the note values because one of the things a piper
has to know is what the notation actually means, inspite of how it
reads. It usually takes me 3-6 months to get adequately proficient on a
musical instrument. The pipes will humble ya, that's for sure.


While I understand that the pipes are a very hard instrument to learn
and be GOOD at, your remark about notation applies to any and every
instrument, not just pipes. That's what makes music uniquely yours,
whether or not you simply know enough to copy verbatim someone else's
playing, or make it yours.


At a jam session last summer, a guy handed me his violin and said
"Here...give it a try". I came close to being either beaten up, or arrested.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Chuck Gould wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:


Maybe the skill is handy for big funerals. Analogy: Hidden among the
population like terrorist cells are legions of bagpipe players. They
come
out of the woodwork for police funerals in some cities. I have no idea
why.
My best theory is that having to listen to bagpipe music should make
other
cops do a better job of looking out for their partners.

Shame on ya, McBedroom.

I've been taking bagpipe lessons for a couple of years, and I'm just
now about to graduate from the practice chanter to something with an
actual bag. I can extract house-rockin' music from anything with a
keyboard, blow a wicked blues harp, and while I sold my last guitar
about 30 years ago I could get my chops back with a few months of
practice. Learning the pipes is like learning a foreign language after
speaking English for 50 years.
The western scale? Forget it. Staff notation? Yeah, but don't pay
strict attention to the note values because one of the things a piper
has to know is what the notation actually means, inspite of how it
reads. It usually takes me 3-6 months to get adequately proficient on a
musical instrument. The pipes will humble ya, that's for sure.


While I understand that the pipes are a very hard instrument to learn
and be GOOD at, your remark about notation applies to any and every
instrument, not just pipes. That's what makes music uniquely yours,
whether or not you simply know enough to copy verbatim someone else's
playing, or make it yours.


At a jam session last summer, a guy handed me his violin and said
"Here...give it a try". I came close to being either beaten up, or arrested.

That's a perfect example! My daughter is taking violin lessons at
school. I play guitar and have for quite a long time. I figured it
couldn't be too hard to play violin being how I have a strong string
instrument background. I learned the fretboard, etc. and still just
REALLY sucked at it! It's intonation is SO much different than a guitar!

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"DSK" wrote in message
...
Chuck Gould wrote:
Did the ancient armies actually like bagpipe music? Hard to say. All I
know is that when you see drawings of some of the units marching into
battle they often have the piper on point. :-)


That wasn't by chance.


Here's a look at the audio torture device enroute to me via UPS Ground.
A "shuttle pipe" is not quite as loud as a Great Highland, but sounds
about the same. Biggest difference is that you can practice the shuttle
pipes indoors or play in a small room without being inappropriately
loud.

What's "inappropriately loud" mean?

Example: One band I'm playing with. We practice in a 12x15 room. One
guitarist has a 4x12 Marshall cabinet and an amp head that could be used to
play a rather large room. He doesn't know how to turn it down. When he's
really out of hand, I can feel the legs of my jeans actually moving. I'm
giving him two more speeches about how this will not fly in small clubs. The
band will never be hired a second time. If he doesn't get it, I'm gone.

I use a custom made set of Etymotic ear plugs. It's not enough protection
around this guy. Bagpipes can be equally scary. Almost.

My brother does sound for a couple of bands as well as make sound
systems for some. A few years back, he had that problem with a band he
was doing sound for, they just couldn't understand that in a small
club, or even in a large venue, volume, and lots of it, doesn't make
GOOD sound. You have to match the sound with the room. Of course, they
kind of sucked anyway, so they needed distorted volume to sound like
they had at least some talent! Have you ever been to Grassroots Fest?

http://www.grassrootsfest.org/

I went years ago, when the only one was in Trumansburg.

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"DSK" wrote in message
...
Chuck Gould wrote:
Did the ancient armies actually like bagpipe music? Hard to say. All I
know is that when you see drawings of some of the units marching into
battle they often have the piper on point. :-)


That wasn't by chance.


Here's a look at the audio torture device enroute to me via UPS
Ground.
A "shuttle pipe" is not quite as loud as a Great Highland, but sounds
about the same. Biggest difference is that you can practice the
shuttle
pipes indoors or play in a small room without being inappropriately
loud.

What's "inappropriately loud" mean?

Example: One band I'm playing with. We practice in a 12x15 room. One
guitarist has a 4x12 Marshall cabinet and an amp head that could be used
to
play a rather large room. He doesn't know how to turn it down. When he's
really out of hand, I can feel the legs of my jeans actually moving. I'm
giving him two more speeches about how this will not fly in small clubs.
The
band will never be hired a second time. If he doesn't get it, I'm gone.

I use a custom made set of Etymotic ear plugs. It's not enough protection
around this guy. Bagpipes can be equally scary. Almost.

My brother does sound for a couple of bands as well as make sound
systems for some. A few years back, he had that problem with a band he
was doing sound for, they just couldn't understand that in a small
club, or even in a large venue, volume, and lots of it, doesn't make
GOOD sound. You have to match the sound with the room. Of course, they
kind of sucked anyway, so they needed distorted volume to sound like
they had at least some talent! Have you ever been to Grassroots Fest?

http://www.grassrootsfest.org/

I went years ago, when the only one was in Trumansburg.


Long time ago - mainly to see Taj Mahal.

What's "inappropriately loud" mean?


JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Example: One band I'm playing with. We practice in a 12x15 room. One
guitarist has a 4x12 Marshall cabinet and an amp head that could be used to
play a rather large room. He doesn't know how to turn it down.

That's not "inappropriately loud" that's just a guy who may
(or may not) be a great guitar player but doesn't have a
clue how to play WITH a band.

Dynamics, man, dynamics!

Just say to him, "You ever notice how sometimes, really
really good bands play soft? It, like, emphasiszes certain
parts of the song, plus it makes the loud parts sound even
louder." If you can get this point across, you'll be doing
hims a huge favor. It's part of learning to actually PLAY
rather than just hurling a lot of notes around.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
What's "inappropriately loud" mean?


JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Example: One band I'm playing with. We practice in a 12x15 room. One
guitarist has a 4x12 Marshall cabinet and an amp head that could be used
to play a rather large room. He doesn't know how to turn it down.

That's not "inappropriately loud" that's just a guy who may (or may not)
be a great guitar player but doesn't have a clue how to play WITH a band.

Let's put it this way: Blues only sells in a small number of clubs here. In
those places, these volume levels will clear the room, and the band won't
get jobs. Since they searched for 4 months to find a bass player (me), I
think I have some leverage to teach new behavior. What's appropriate is
directly related to sales, which many artists don't like to think about.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Chuck, there is no similarity between Indian and bagpipe music. Don't be
silly. :-)

Actually a lot more than one might immediately recognize.

Non western scale, non western timing, played against a drone.

The bagpipes originated in Asia or the middle east, crossed into Europe
through Turkey, and some old drawings of Emperor Nero show him playing
a musical instrument where pipes are regulated by pressure from an
orally inflated bag.

The bagpipes were "rediscovered" by western European crusaders about
900 years ago.

Imagine "belly dancing" music instead of "Scotland the Brave" coming
from the pipes, (the sound is absolutely right for it), and it's easier
to get around the Celtic stereotypes.

Bagpipers have always been a bit disreputable, either that or not
highly appreciated by their audiences. At various times and under
various monarchs, performing on the bagpipe was punishable by death.
Sign on an olde English Inn; "No bagpypers, harlets, or thyves allow'd"

Now by next summer I should be adequately skilled with bag and drones
to stand in the cockpit and play a tune or two just as the sun sets on
a wilderness anchorage. Suppose my neighboring boaters would have an
"opinion" or two if I dared? :-)

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"DSK" wrote in message
...
Chuck Gould wrote:
Did the ancient armies actually like bagpipe music? Hard to say. All I
know is that when you see drawings of some of the units marching into
battle they often have the piper on point. :-)


That wasn't by chance.


Here's a look at the audio torture device enroute to me via UPS
Ground.
A "shuttle pipe" is not quite as loud as a Great Highland, but sounds
about the same. Biggest difference is that you can practice the
shuttle
pipes indoors or play in a small room without being inappropriately
loud.

What's "inappropriately loud" mean?

Example: One band I'm playing with. We practice in a 12x15 room. One
guitarist has a 4x12 Marshall cabinet and an amp head that could be used
to
play a rather large room. He doesn't know how to turn it down. When he's
really out of hand, I can feel the legs of my jeans actually moving. I'm
giving him two more speeches about how this will not fly in small clubs.
The
band will never be hired a second time. If he doesn't get it, I'm gone.

I use a custom made set of Etymotic ear plugs. It's not enough protection
around this guy. Bagpipes can be equally scary. Almost.

My brother does sound for a couple of bands as well as make sound
systems for some. A few years back, he had that problem with a band he
was doing sound for, they just couldn't understand that in a small
club, or even in a large venue, volume, and lots of it, doesn't make
GOOD sound. You have to match the sound with the room. Of course, they
kind of sucked anyway, so they needed distorted volume to sound like
they had at least some talent! Have you ever been to Grassroots Fest?

http://www.grassrootsfest.org/

I went years ago, when the only one was in Trumansburg.


Long time ago - mainly to see Taj Mahal.

I saw Donna the Buffalo before they were anything!

On 21 Nov 2006 09:53:48 -0800, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


The bagpipes originated in Asia or the middle east, crossed into Europe
through Turkey, and some old drawings of Emperor Nero show him playing
a musical instrument where pipes are regulated by pressure from an
orally inflated bag.

The bagpipes were "rediscovered" by western European crusaders about
900 years ago.

Imagine "belly dancing" music instead of "Scotland the Brave" coming
from the pipes, (the sound is absolutely right for it), and it's easier
to get around the Celtic stereotypes.

Bagpipers have always been a bit disreputable, either that or not
highly appreciated by their audiences. At various times and under
various monarchs, performing on the bagpipe was punishable by death.
Sign on an olde English Inn; "No bagpypers, harlets, or thyves allow'd"

I mentioned this thread to my wife, who grew up in Poland, and whose
family had many musicians. She started talking about Polish bagpipes.
This was new to me since I always associated bagpipes with Scots only.
I then googled bagpipe history and learned more than I really wanted
to about this "instrument of peasants." Anyway, I'm getting more
music, military, union and turkey cooking info here than I anticipated
when first coming here.
No complaints.

--Vic