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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2006
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Default No hope for soap?

This item addresses a local issue, but there are probably similar
situations in other areas as well.....


**************

"Back Away From the Boat Soap, and Keep Both Hands in the Air!"
(Part One: The Investigation Begins)


Few members of the general public are aware that the Boats Afloat
portion of last January's Seattle Boat Show was at risk for closure
only a day before the event began.
Advance ticket sales were brisk, the docks were secure, the boats and
exhibitors were in place, and everything seemed ready to go. A phone
call from a zealous environmentalist to the City of Seattle,
Department of Public Utilities, almost scuttled the entire event.

Louise Kulzer, (Surface Water Quality Team Supervisor) and Eric Autrey
(Environmental Compliance Inspector) responded to a complaint that a
large number of boats were being washed at Chandler's Cove. The
telephone tipster reported that there were soap suds visible on the
surface of Lake Union, and when the representatives from the City of
Seattle arrived they did indeed find several brokers, dealers, and
boat detail companies scrubbing away the airborne urban grime that had
settled on the inventory.

"And it wasn't just soap," according to Kulzer. "We found people using
chlorinated cleaners for decks and other surfaces, and it was all
being allowed to drain off the boats and into the lake."

An amicable discussion between the City inspectors, the Northwest
Yacht Brokers Association administrators, and some NYBA board members
(including Ray Rairdon of Ray Rairdon Yacht Sales) resulted in an
agreement whereby Association employees were sent out to the docks to
instruct the boat dealers to stop all exterior cleaning and detailing.
"We also agreed to form an environmental committee within the NYBA,"
reported Rairdon, "and the show was allowed to go on."

Ray Rairdon's account of this event inspired us to look into the City
of Seattle and State of Washington regulations regarding the use of
soap when cleaning boats. We discovered some important contradictions
and inconsistencies between the City of Seattle Municipal Code and
applicable state laws, as well as information on a Washington State
Department of Ecology web page that could be interpreted as
specifically advising boaters to violate a state RCW. We opened a can
of bureaucratic worms.

In a discussion with Louise Kulzer, Andy Ryan, and Eric Autry of the
City of Seattle Department of Public Utilities, we learned that a
section of the Seattle Municipal Code that pertains to storm water
runoff specifically prohibits the discharge of any pollutants into a
storm sewer system that drains to a lake, stream, or body of
sal****er. It is also illegal to discharge a pollutant directly into
any lake, stream, or body of sal****er.

Soap is considered a pollutant, and Kulzer shared some of the
scientific rationale for such a classification. "Soap itself is
toxic," she said. "Even the so-called biodegradable soaps are
poisonous in enough concentration. People would like to think that
using a biodegradable soap is going to address the problem, but it
does not. As the soap biodegrades it consumes oxygen from the water,
and when the biodegradation is complete there are still some residual
organic compounds left behind. Among those compounds are 'endocrine
disruptors' that are similar in function to hormones found in birth
control pills. Fish and other aquatic species exposed to these
endocrine disruptors experience trouble reproducing, and have even
been known to switch genders and become sterile."

"Another reason that soap is such a problem," explained Kulzer, "is
due to the way that soap is designed to work. Soap binds to grease and
fats and makes it easy for them to be lifted off a surface.
Unfortunately, the gills of fish are primarily fatty tissue and the
soap binds to the gills and makes it more difficult for fish to
extract oxygen from the water."

"What about concentration?" we asked. "Wouldn't there have to be an
enormous amount of soap dumped into the billions of gallons of Puget
Sound to have a measurable effect on aquatic species?"

"The concentration issue is something of a moving target," said
Kulzer. "But we collect water samples a variety of sources and we know
that there is a sufficient amount of soap residue to have an effect."

We asked, "Why do you single out boats as a source for soap pollution?
Aren't the 200,000 cars in the City of Seattle that get hosed down
every sunny Saturday with a brush, a bucket, and a few ounces of
dishwashing soap also draining into the storm drains and ultimately
polluting the lakes or Puget Sound? We've never heard of anybody being
hassled for washing their car." The answer was astonishing.

"When the Municipal Code was written to address introducing pollutants
into the storm water drainage system, the private washing of
automobiles was specifically excluded from regulation. We encourage
people to use a commercial car wash that recycles the wash and rinse
water, or to drive their car onto their lawn prior to washing it so
that the soap soaks into their grass. But if somebody wants to wash
his or her own car and the soapy runoff gets into the storm drain
system they aren't violating any portion of the Municipal Code."

(Rather obviously, the politicians in office when the soap discharge
portions of the Municipal Code were codified had an innate instinct
for political survival. Telling a couple of hundred thousand
automobile owners that it was suddenly "illegal" to wash a car in a
driveway would result in an angry populace storming the barricades at
City Hall).

Eric Autrey added, "As far as enforcement goes, we are a complaint-
driven organization. We aren't going to be skulking around the yacht
clubs or marinas with binoculars looking for people who might be
washing a boat. We do routinely inspect boatyards and other commercial
repair facilities, and I can say that if we happen to observe a
private boat owner washing a boat in a way that gets soap into the
water while we're doing a commercial inspection we will take the time
to enforce the Municipal Code and ask the boater to stop. Other than
that, you're not likely to see one anybody from the Department of
Public Utilities unless there's a specific complaint- and we were
responding to a complaint when we inspected the Boat Show last
January."

So it appears that a heavy hammer hangs over the heads of boaters. We
all have far too much invested in even the most humble boats to forego
washing and maintaining them, yet when doing so we are technically
violating a law that is enforced selectively and inconsistently. The
vast majority of boaters would prefer to operate legally. After our
discussion with the folks from the City of Seattle, Department of
Public Utilities, it initially appeared that one solution might be to
petition the City Council to amend the
Municipal Code to extend the same exemption granted to private auto
washers to include boats.

As we will report in next month's issue, our conversation with the
Washington State Department of Ecology revealed that revising the
Seattle Municipal Code would not only fail to resolve the potential
legal problems for boat washers in Seattle, boat washing anywhere in
the state is subject to serious restriction. We did get some specific
advice from the DOE about a method with which at least some portions
of a boat can be legally washed with soap, and we will share that
information as well.

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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jan 2007
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Default No hope for soap?


"Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute" wrote in message
...
In message oups.com,
Chuck Gould sprach forth the following:

"Soap itself is
toxic," she said. "Even the so-called biodegradable soaps are
poisonous in enough concentration. People would like to think that
using a biodegradable soap is going to address the problem, but it
does not. As the soap biodegrades it consumes oxygen from the water,
and when the biodegradation is complete there are still some residual
organic compounds left behind. Among those compounds are 'endocrine
disruptors' that are similar in function to hormones found in birth
control pills. Fish and other aquatic species exposed to these
endocrine disruptors experience trouble reproducing, and have even
been known to switch genders and become sterile."


How many people have become sterile from taking bubble baths?

These people are in-****ing-sane.


Remember we are talking about the west coast tofu mentality.

Imagine all the things we did and *survived* while growing
up...................................things they are a changing.


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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Mar 2007
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Default No hope for soap?

Remember we are talking about the west coast tofu mentality.



Not everyone on the west coast eats tofu. I hate that stuff. Steak
for me please. I am an environmentlist myself and reading this
article makes me a little disturbed. The thing is you can't just tell
people no. You have to give them a better alternative. They said
that you shouldn't even use biodegradable soap because, even though it
is better, it is still not ideal. Well come up with a better
solution. I am sure boaters don't want to pollute the water they live
on or kill the ecosystem but you need to give an alternative.
SOMETHING here people. Those groups always drive me nuts because
there are so many things that are better for the environment that can
be produced cheaper and save money but these types of
environmentalists just say 'oh just be dirty and hungry'.

As an Environmental Studies major I learned to hate hippies. I can't
stand that people say 'you all should be more like me then the world
would be perfect'. I would say use biodegradeble soap and they should
invent a fully clean degradeable solution here. Seems like something
that could make everyone happy.

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