Anyone publishing these?

As in, $1000 chartplotters/fishfinders, six new units tested.

That sort of stuff.

On Jun 15, 5:15?am, HK wrote:
Anyone publishing these?

As in, $1000 chartplotters/fishfinders, six new units tested.

That sort of stuff.

Test them for what? To see if they work?

Almost any brand of electronics will be very reliable. In general,
units that don't fail in the first 90-minutes or so of use after
installation can be relied upon to give so many years of service that
they will ultimately be replaced due to obsolesence rather than
finally wearing out. That's why there are so very few technicians that
actually repair electronics- the rare warranty failures are typically
resolved by swapping out an entire unit.

Beyond reliability, a lot of the issues become very, very subjective.
Boater A prefers a certain type of display, Boater B prefers another.
Unless two units are attempting to prioritize the exact same aspects
of performance and operation, doing an objective review is pretty
difficult.
It requires the reviewer to impose his or her *own* subjective values
as a standard for comparison.

For example: MagicNav Technologies new GPS/plotter might have an
particularly bright display and an interface that uses only a couple
of large buttons that need to be pressed in some complex combinations
to perform a few dozen functions. Competing ElectroScan offers a unit
with a less brilliant display, but with 17 clearly labeled (if small)
push buttons that normally offer one-touch functionality.

Which is "better"?

Is the bright display a positive or negative? Can it bee "too bright"
except during the sunniest days? Or, will two different people have
two different, subjective, and equally valid opinions about the
brightness?

Is the 2-3 button interface a blessing for it's ease of handling in
rough seas, or a serious problem because many people won't manage to
remember that in order to access the page with the tide tables the
sequence is L,L,C,L,R,C,R,C,R,L? There would be opinions on either
side of the question. Is the 17 button interface better because it's
more easily used, or worse because when the boat is bouncing around
the smaller buttons are hard to press with a high degree of accuracy?

Is one unit better for people who are boating offshore in daylight
hours only, the other a superior choice for people who boat on inland
lakes and launch before sunrise to take advantage of the early morning
bite?
Or. will there be boaters in both of those categories who might choose
either of the units for subjective reasons that are personally valid?

Which one should the reviewer "knock"? Which one *can* the reviewer
knock without imposing his or her own subjective preferences as some
sort of universal standard?

Reliability has to be removed from the equation as well as basically
untestable. Effective testing would require leaving something running
for up to several years to note when it finally failed, and to be
thorough several copies of each model would need to be operated to be
sure that an early failure or a ridiculously long service life wasn't
a one-unit anomaly.

Because the choice of boating equipment is so extremely subjective,
head-to-head comparisons are a lot less useful than descriptions of
individual products that include a hgihlight of the major features and
what the associated benfits or operating characteristics might be. It
then falls to the reader to decide whether a particular product would
be
suitable for consideration when shopping for items of that type, or
not. A product with characteristics, features, and functions that are
inconsistent with what a boater wants for his personal boating
experience is always a poor choice, no matter how well it may have
been manufactured, the corporate reputation, the length of the
warranty, or whether it impressed somebody else.

"HK" wrote in message
...
Anyone publishing these?

As in, $1000 chartplotters/fishfinders, six new units tested.

That sort of stuff.


I see Consumer Reports only rests the car based portable navigation systems.

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jun 15, 5:15?am, HK wrote:
Anyone publishing these?

As in, $1000 chartplotters/fishfinders, six new units tested.

That sort of stuff.

Test them for what? To see if they work?

Almost any brand of electronics will be very reliable. In general,
units that don't fail in the first 90-minutes or so of use after
installation can be relied upon to give so many years of service that
they will ultimately be replaced due to obsolesence rather than
finally wearing out. That's why there are so very few technicians that
actually repair electronics- the rare warranty failures are typically
resolved by swapping out an entire unit.

Beyond reliability, a lot of the issues become very, very subjective.
Boater A prefers a certain type of display, Boater B prefers another.
Unless two units are attempting to prioritize the exact same aspects
of performance and operation, doing an objective review is pretty
difficult.
It requires the reviewer to impose his or her *own* subjective values
as a standard for comparison.

For example: MagicNav Technologies new GPS/plotter might have an
particularly bright display and an interface that uses only a couple
of large buttons that need to be pressed in some complex combinations
to perform a few dozen functions. Competing ElectroScan offers a unit
with a less brilliant display, but with 17 clearly labeled (if small)
push buttons that normally offer one-touch functionality.

Which is "better"?


That's right, Chuckster...do whatever you can to minimize the
possibilities of important objective and subjective differences in the
gear available to boaters.

There are any number of reasons why "head to head" comparisons of, say,
7" display GPS Plotters might be of interest to boaters. Or depth
finders. Or fish finders. Or radios.

It is almost impossible to check out all the possibilities in your local
West Marine or any other major marine equipment store. First, they don't
have the depth of inventory. Second, they rarely have things hooked up
so you can mess with them comfortably. Third, they never seem to have
things like manuals handy. Fourth, the sales people they employ simply
have no depth of information about much of anything.

Before I buy an appliance, I check it out in Consumers Reports. There's
no reason why the same sort of comparative info on boating gear wouldn't
be useful to boaters.

Stop pimping for the boating industry, Chuck. It doesn't serve anyone
but your masters.

Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Anyone publishing these?

As in, $1000 chartplotters/fishfinders, six new units tested.

That sort of stuff.


I see Consumer Reports only rests the car based portable navigation systems.




Believe it or not, way back when, CU used to test, compare and rate
outboard motors.

"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Anyone publishing these?

As in, $1000 chartplotters/fishfinders, six new units tested.

That sort of stuff.


I see Consumer Reports only rests the car based portable navigation
systems.


Believe it or not, way back when, CU used to test, compare and rate
outboard motors.

That would be cool. Think I'll drop them a line asking for more marine type
tests.
Since I don't buy a camera or tv every year...those bi-annual tests get
tedius.

On Jun 15, 7:26?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
..

It is almost impossible to check out all the possibilities in your local
West Marine or any other major marine equipment store. First, they don't
have the depth of inventory. Second, they rarely have things hooked up
so you can mess with them comfortably. Third, they never seem to have
things like manuals handy. Fourth, the sales people they employ simply
have no depth of information about much of anything.



Vs. the challenges of doing a valid head to head, real world test?

You'd need to rig an individual boat with a half dozen depthsounders,
plotters, etc. How else would you be able to compare operation under
the exact same circumstances?

Disregarding your nasty personal remarks below, (surprise, surprise),
could you please explain to the group exactly why the very same
features and functions will always be important to a guy trolling for
billfish in the Atlantic and a guy with a bass boat in Minnesota?
Whose subjective priorities should prevail? The reviewer's?

To follow the Consumer Reports model you suggest, all of the tested
equipment would need to be purchased, anonymously, at a variety of
retail outlets. To purchase and rig a dozen plotters, modify and
operate a boat to do the test, etc, all of a sudden you're looking at
an article that costs $25,000 to write. If you compare the size of the
market for, (say) washing machines, vs the size of the market for
chart plotters and the circulation of Consumer Reports (likely greater
than the circulation of all boating magaznies combined) it should
become pretty obvious why its easier to justify buying 6 different
$400 washing machines to test by plugging into the wall than buying a
large number of radar plotters that cost as much to rig and test as
they do to purchase.

And finally, unless a magazine accepts *no* advertising (like Consumer
Reports) there would be no reason to accept their "objective"
comparisons as entirely unbiased. Look at Motor Trend for example;
want to be "Car of the Year"? just sign up for the appropriate
advertising package and you're in. Years ago, I heard their publisher
excuse this practice as "being in the entertainment business".

The "no advertising" model with head to head comparisons has been
tried. Powerboat Reports. It failed. That's why nobody is doing
it. :-)

Publications cross a pretty tricky line when moving from a description
of an individual product with associated features and characteristics
to any attempt to pronounce "Brand X is better than Brand Y
because...."
Who's subjective preferences should prevail? The reviewer's?



Before I buy an appliance, I check it out in Consumers Reports. There's
no reason why the same sort of comparative info on boating gear wouldn't
be useful to boaters.

Stop pimping for the boating industry, Chuck. It doesn't serve anyone
but your masters.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jun 15, 7:26?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
.
It is almost impossible to check out all the possibilities in your local
West Marine or any other major marine equipment store. First, they don't
have the depth of inventory. Second, they rarely have things hooked up
so you can mess with them comfortably. Third, they never seem to have
things like manuals handy. Fourth, the sales people they employ simply
have no depth of information about much of anything.



Vs. the challenges of doing a valid head to head, real world test?

You'd need to rig an individual boat with a half dozen depthsounders,
plotters, etc. How else would you be able to compare operation under
the exact same circumstances?

Disregarding your nasty personal remarks below, (surprise, surprise),
could you please explain to the group exactly why the very same
features and functions will always be important to a guy trolling for
billfish in the Atlantic and a guy with a bass boat in Minnesota?
Whose subjective priorities should prevail? The reviewer's?


Your arguments are specious. Similar products with different feature
sets are evaluated together all the time by all manner of printed and on
line "publications."

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:26:06 -0400, HK wrote:

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jun 15, 5:15?am, HK wrote:
Anyone publishing these?

As in, $1000 chartplotters/fishfinders, six new units tested.

That sort of stuff.

Test them for what? To see if they work?

Almost any brand of electronics will be very reliable. In general,
units that don't fail in the first 90-minutes or so of use after
installation can be relied upon to give so many years of service that
they will ultimately be replaced due to obsolesence rather than
finally wearing out. That's why there are so very few technicians that
actually repair electronics- the rare warranty failures are typically
resolved by swapping out an entire unit.

Beyond reliability, a lot of the issues become very, very subjective.
Boater A prefers a certain type of display, Boater B prefers another.
Unless two units are attempting to prioritize the exact same aspects
of performance and operation, doing an objective review is pretty
difficult.
It requires the reviewer to impose his or her *own* subjective values
as a standard for comparison.

For example: MagicNav Technologies new GPS/plotter might have an
particularly bright display and an interface that uses only a couple
of large buttons that need to be pressed in some complex combinations
to perform a few dozen functions. Competing ElectroScan offers a unit
with a less brilliant display, but with 17 clearly labeled (if small)
push buttons that normally offer one-touch functionality.

Which is "better"?


That's right, Chuckster...do whatever you can to minimize the
possibilities of important objective and subjective differences in the
gear available to boaters.

There are any number of reasons why "head to head" comparisons of, say,
7" display GPS Plotters might be of interest to boaters. Or depth
finders. Or fish finders. Or radios.

It is almost impossible to check out all the possibilities in your local
West Marine or any other major marine equipment store. First, they don't
have the depth of inventory. Second, they rarely have things hooked up
so you can mess with them comfortably. Third, they never seem to have
things like manuals handy. Fourth, the sales people they employ simply
have no depth of information about much of anything.

Before I buy an appliance, I check it out in Consumers Reports. There's
no reason why the same sort of comparative info on boating gear wouldn't
be useful to boaters.

Stop pimping for the boating industry, Chuck. It doesn't serve anyone
but your masters.

Pure, unadulterated, jealousy-driven horse****!

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:08:07 -0400, HK wrote:



Your arguments are specious.

Which means, simply, that you can't counter them.