I need some advice regarding our new boat.

We recently purchased a used 1995 Sea Ray Sundancer 230DA and took it
out for it's first spin today. All went reasonably well, though one or
two things left me a little puzzled, and I wouldn't mind some feedback
from others with more experience on the matters. I grew up around
boats back in my homeland of Australia, but as they were my father's
boats, and generally outboards, this recent acquisition is proving
something of a new experience for me.

The boat came with a 2-year old 5.0 Mercruiser and manifolds that were
replaced only 7 months ago, so I felt fairly confident about the
purchase of a boat that was otherwise 12 years old. It has a few
cosmetic issues that have to be dealt with, but overall we were happy
with the purchase, especially at the price we picked it up at.

We went out on Florida's St. John's river for the day this morning and
overall were pleased with the performance, but a few things cropped up
that had me wondering if there were problems with the boat, or what
the root of them might be.

Firstly, while it maneuvered fairly easily at low speed (so much so
that my 9-year old son happily steered the boat along under my
supervision) once at high speed it seemed like a real dog to steer, so
much so that I really had to grip the steering wheel firmly with both
hands to turn it in the direction I wanted the boat to go. Once or
twice it certainly seemed that I was fighting the tendency of the trim
tabs to want to pull the boat in a particular direction, but even
though an adjustment would ease the pressure on the steering wheel I
still felt it needed quite some effort to steer the boat - I don't
think my wife would have been capable of doing the job. Not having any
experience with a boat like this before I really have no other
yardstick to measure it by, so I was left wondering if this is normal,
whether there's a fault in the steering, or if the trip tab settings
were making the job hard.

Secondly, as far as manually setting trip tabs (we don't have an auto
system) are the settings sensitive to particular speeds? I'd set them
to a specific point to deal with the steering issues mentioned above,
only to find that as I accelerated or decreased speed I'd have to
contend yet again with a lean and/or a tendency to pull to the side
again.

Thirdly, when I found a few suitable areas to do it I opened up the
throttle to put the boat through its paces and found all was fine.
Once up on the plane I found that it could nudge up to around 40mph,
and it cruised very comfortably at around 25mph and 3500 rpm. After
that initial run though I started having a problem where the engine
started coughing and spluttering every time I left the no-wake zones
along the river and began accelerating up to cruise speeds. The boat
would sustain the speed for a while, then begin coughing and
spluttering until it slowed back down to 5 - 10 mph, when all would
return to normal. As soon as I started trying to speed up again the
coughing would return. We had a quarter of a tank left so it wasn't a
case of running out of fuel, though it seemed to be acting like it.
Just to be sure I threw some gas into the boat a mile or so further
back down the river and after that all seemed to be well. I got it
back up to speed and it didn't exhibit any of the earlier problems.
Still, if I was running low on gas I wouldn't have made it all the way
back to the fueling site. Could there be some crap in the fuel system
that was affecting the engine when it got down to a ¼ tank? I know
there's supposed to be a small portion of the fuel that is never
usable, but as far far the gauge was concerned I shouldn't have been
anywhere near that low.

Lastly, the instrument on the panel which indicates the trim level
just seemed to be stuck with the needle in the 'up' position. When I
was having the problems with the steering I wondered if an adjustment
to it might help, but I couldn't tell if anything was happening - I
certainly noticed no difference to the handling. A friend told me that
this particular instrument often fails on boats, so should I be
concerned with it?

Sorry for the long-winded post. Being a newbie with regard to inboards
has left me with a ton of questions regarding today's outing. I just
wish I knew someone locally with experience of these boats who could
come out with me to check the points out for me.

Thanks in advance...........Tim

On Jul 4, 11:06 pm, timW wrote:
I need some advice regarding our new boat.

We recently purchased a used 1995 Sea Ray Sundancer 230DA and took it
out for it's first spin today. All went reasonably well, though one or
two things left me a little puzzled, and I wouldn't mind some feedback
from others with more experience on the matters. I grew up around
boats back in my homeland of Australia, but as they were my father's
boats, and generally outboards, this recent acquisition is proving
something of a new experience for me.

The boat came with a 2-year old 5.0 Mercruiser and manifolds that were
replaced only 7 months ago, so I felt fairly confident about the
purchase of a boat that was otherwise 12 years old. It has a few
cosmetic issues that have to be dealt with, but overall we were happy
with the purchase, especially at the price we picked it up at.

We went out on Florida's St. John's river for the day this morning and
overall were pleased with the performance, but a few things cropped up
that had me wondering if there were problems with the boat, or what
the root of them might be.

Firstly, while it maneuvered fairly easily at low speed (so much so
that my 9-year old son happily steered the boat along under my
supervision) once at high speed it seemed like a real dog to steer, so
much so that I really had to grip the steering wheel firmly with both
hands to turn it in the direction I wanted the boat to go. Once or
twice it certainly seemed that I was fighting the tendency of the trim
tabs to want to pull the boat in a particular direction, but even
though an adjustment would ease the pressure on the steering wheel I
still felt it needed quite some effort to steer the boat - I don't
think my wife would have been capable of doing the job. Not having any
experience with a boat like this before I really have no other
yardstick to measure it by, so I was left wondering if this is normal,
whether there's a fault in the steering, or if the trip tab settings
were making the job hard.

Secondly, as far as manually setting trip tabs (we don't have an auto
system) are the settings sensitive to particular speeds? I'd set them
to a specific point to deal with the steering issues mentioned above,
only to find that as I accelerated or decreased speed I'd have to
contend yet again with a lean and/or a tendency to pull to the side
again.

Thirdly, when I found a few suitable areas to do it I opened up the
throttle to put the boat through its paces and found all was fine.
Once up on the plane I found that it could nudge up to around 40mph,
and it cruised very comfortably at around 25mph and 3500 rpm. After
that initial run though I started having a problem where the engine
started coughing and spluttering every time I left the no-wake zones
along the river and began accelerating up to cruise speeds. The boat
would sustain the speed for a while, then begin coughing and
spluttering until it slowed back down to 5 - 10 mph, when all would
return to normal. As soon as I started trying to speed up again the
coughing would return. We had a quarter of a tank left so it wasn't a
case of running out of fuel, though it seemed to be acting like it.
Just to be sure I threw some gas into the boat a mile or so further
back down the river and after that all seemed to be well. I got it
back up to speed and it didn't exhibit any of the earlier problems.
Still, if I was running low on gas I wouldn't have made it all the way
back to the fueling site. Could there be some crap in the fuel system
that was affecting the engine when it got down to a ¼ tank? I know
there's supposed to be a small portion of the fuel that is never
usable, but as far far the gauge was concerned I shouldn't have been
anywhere near that low.

Lastly, the instrument on the panel which indicates the trim level
just seemed to be stuck with the needle in the 'up' position. When I
was having the problems with the steering I wondered if an adjustment
to it might help, but I couldn't tell if anything was happening - I
certainly noticed no difference to the handling. A friend told me that
this particular instrument often fails on boats, so should I be
concerned with it?

Sorry for the long-winded post. Being a newbie with regard to inboards
has left me with a ton of questions regarding today's outing. I just
wish I knew someone locally with experience of these boats who could
come out with me to check the points out for me.

Thanks in advance...........Tim

Only thing I can think when buying a 12 year old boat is: " Wheres the
Survey "
How long had the boat been sitting prior to the run you took? Was it
just out of shop? Did you hear it run before you bought it?
Stale Gas? I'dve put some fuel system cleaner through it (the sitting
thing).12 year old trim tabs will need attention (that needle thing is
scary, but some say...meh.) on a boat that size
Like the 40 year old Chris I bought....cosmetics later...make sure its
reliable. It is.

All I can think of, good luck mate!

S.

A boat that doesn't have power steering will steer as you described. Also a
bad steering cable can cause hard steering. The tabs should be used to
obtain a level, slightly bow up ride. It is best to leave the tabs retracted
until the boat is on plane and the stern drive trim is adjusted properly. If
the boat always tends to steer left, try substituting the flat plate anode
on the anti ventilation plate,for a fin one. The trim indicator isn't
necessary, unless you are anal, like I am, about things working properly.
The cutting out issue might bear further watching. It could be fuel but it
could also be the ignition breaking down. Don't trust your fuel gauge.
Jim
"timW" wrote in message
oups.com...
I need some advice regarding our new boat.

We recently purchased a used 1995 Sea Ray Sundancer 230DA and took it
out for it's first spin today. All went reasonably well, though one or
two things left me a little puzzled, and I wouldn't mind some feedback
from others with more experience on the matters. I grew up around
boats back in my homeland of Australia, but as they were my father's
boats, and generally outboards, this recent acquisition is proving
something of a new experience for me.

The boat came with a 2-year old 5.0 Mercruiser and manifolds that were
replaced only 7 months ago, so I felt fairly confident about the
purchase of a boat that was otherwise 12 years old. It has a few
cosmetic issues that have to be dealt with, but overall we were happy
with the purchase, especially at the price we picked it up at.

We went out on Florida's St. John's river for the day this morning and
overall were pleased with the performance, but a few things cropped up
that had me wondering if there were problems with the boat, or what
the root of them might be.

Firstly, while it maneuvered fairly easily at low speed (so much so
that my 9-year old son happily steered the boat along under my
supervision) once at high speed it seemed like a real dog to steer, so
much so that I really had to grip the steering wheel firmly with both
hands to turn it in the direction I wanted the boat to go. Once or
twice it certainly seemed that I was fighting the tendency of the trim
tabs to want to pull the boat in a particular direction, but even
though an adjustment would ease the pressure on the steering wheel I
still felt it needed quite some effort to steer the boat - I don't
think my wife would have been capable of doing the job. Not having any
experience with a boat like this before I really have no other
yardstick to measure it by, so I was left wondering if this is normal,
whether there's a fault in the steering, or if the trip tab settings
were making the job hard.

Secondly, as far as manually setting trip tabs (we don't have an auto
system) are the settings sensitive to particular speeds? I'd set them
to a specific point to deal with the steering issues mentioned above,
only to find that as I accelerated or decreased speed I'd have to
contend yet again with a lean and/or a tendency to pull to the side
again.

Thirdly, when I found a few suitable areas to do it I opened up the
throttle to put the boat through its paces and found all was fine.
Once up on the plane I found that it could nudge up to around 40mph,
and it cruised very comfortably at around 25mph and 3500 rpm. After
that initial run though I started having a problem where the engine
started coughing and spluttering every time I left the no-wake zones
along the river and began accelerating up to cruise speeds. The boat
would sustain the speed for a while, then begin coughing and
spluttering until it slowed back down to 5 - 10 mph, when all would
return to normal. As soon as I started trying to speed up again the
coughing would return. We had a quarter of a tank left so it wasn't a
case of running out of fuel, though it seemed to be acting like it.
Just to be sure I threw some gas into the boat a mile or so further
back down the river and after that all seemed to be well. I got it
back up to speed and it didn't exhibit any of the earlier problems.
Still, if I was running low on gas I wouldn't have made it all the way
back to the fueling site. Could there be some crap in the fuel system
that was affecting the engine when it got down to a ¼ tank? I know
there's supposed to be a small portion of the fuel that is never
usable, but as far far the gauge was concerned I shouldn't have been
anywhere near that low.

Lastly, the instrument on the panel which indicates the trim level
just seemed to be stuck with the needle in the 'up' position. When I
was having the problems with the steering I wondered if an adjustment
to it might help, but I couldn't tell if anything was happening - I
certainly noticed no difference to the handling. A friend told me that
this particular instrument often fails on boats, so should I be
concerned with it?

Sorry for the long-winded post. Being a newbie with regard to inboards
has left me with a ton of questions regarding today's outing. I just
wish I knew someone locally with experience of these boats who could
come out with me to check the points out for me.

Thanks in advance...........Tim

On Jul 4, 11:06 pm, timW wrote:
I need some advice regarding our new boat.

We recently purchased a used 1995 Sea Ray Sundancer 230DA and took it
out for it's first spin today. All went reasonably well, though one or
two things left me a little puzzled, and I wouldn't mind some feedback
from others with more experience on the matters. I grew up around
boats back in my homeland of Australia, but as they were my father's
boats, and generally outboards, this recent acquisition is proving
something of a new experience for me.

The boat came with a 2-year old 5.0 Mercruiser and manifolds that were
replaced only 7 months ago, so I felt fairly confident about the
purchase of a boat that was otherwise 12 years old. It has a few
cosmetic issues that have to be dealt with, but overall we were happy
with the purchase, especially at the price we picked it up at.

We went out on Florida's St. John's river for the day this morning and
overall were pleased with the performance, but a few things cropped up
that had me wondering if there were problems with the boat, or what
the root of them might be.

Firstly, while it maneuvered fairly easily at low speed (so much so
that my 9-year old son happily steered the boat along under my
supervision) once at high speed it seemed like a real dog to steer, so
much so that I really had to grip the steering wheel firmly with both
hands to turn it in the direction I wanted the boat to go. Once or
twice it certainly seemed that I was fighting the tendency of the trim
tabs to want to pull the boat in a particular direction, but even
though an adjustment would ease the pressure on the steering wheel I
still felt it needed quite some effort to steer the boat - I don't
think my wife would have been capable of doing the job. Not having any
experience with a boat like this before I really have no other
yardstick to measure it by, so I was left wondering if this is normal,
whether there's a fault in the steering, or if the trip tab settings
were making the job hard.

Secondly, as far as manually setting trip tabs (we don't have an auto
system) are the settings sensitive to particular speeds? I'd set them
to a specific point to deal with the steering issues mentioned above,
only to find that as I accelerated or decreased speed I'd have to
contend yet again with a lean and/or a tendency to pull to the side
again.

Thirdly, when I found a few suitable areas to do it I opened up the
throttle to put the boat through its paces and found all was fine.
Once up on the plane I found that it could nudge up to around 40mph,
and it cruised very comfortably at around 25mph and 3500 rpm. After
that initial run though I started having a problem where the engine
started coughing and spluttering every time I left the no-wake zones
along the river and began accelerating up to cruise speeds. The boat
would sustain the speed for a while, then begin coughing and
spluttering until it slowed back down to 5 - 10 mph, when all would
return to normal. As soon as I started trying to speed up again the
coughing would return. We had a quarter of a tank left so it wasn't a
case of running out of fuel, though it seemed to be acting like it.
Just to be sure I threw some gas into the boat a mile or so further
back down the river and after that all seemed to be well. I got it
back up to speed and it didn't exhibit any of the earlier problems.
Still, if I was running low on gas I wouldn't have made it all the way
back to the fueling site. Could there be some crap in the fuel system
that was affecting the engine when it got down to a ¼ tank? I know
there's supposed to be a small portion of the fuel that is never
usable, but as far far the gauge was concerned I shouldn't have been
anywhere near that low.

Lastly, the instrument on the panel which indicates the trim level
just seemed to be stuck with the needle in the 'up' position. When I
was having the problems with the steering I wondered if an adjustment
to it might help, but I couldn't tell if anything was happening - I
certainly noticed no difference to the handling. A friend told me that
this particular instrument often fails on boats, so should I be
concerned with it?

Sorry for the long-winded post. Being a newbie with regard to inboards
has left me with a ton of questions regarding today's outing. I just
wish I knew someone locally with experience of these boats who could
come out with me to check the points out for me.

Thanks in advance...........Tim

the slowing down bit, sounds like water in the tank. Gas with
ethanol which has sat in a tank for a while will absorb water. Add a
can or two of dry gas or fuel treatment and you should be fine.

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 20:06:57 -0700, timW
wrote:

Sorry for the long-winded post. Being a newbie with regard to inboards
has left me with a ton of questions regarding today's outing. I just
wish I knew someone locally with experience of these boats who could
come out with me to check the points out for me.

I assume this is an outdrive?

If it is, the trim tab on the outdrive needs to be adjusted opposite
the direction of torque. It's a balancing act.

With respect to the trim tabs, yes in different current and wind
conditions you have to tinker with the trim tabs all the time - in
particular with that deep a deadrise.

With respect to the gas, I'm thinking along the lines of Jim - changes
the fuel/water filter, chuck a can of Stabil or gas treatment and
refill with new gas.

Hi again,
Thanks for the responses to date.

As far as the spluttering is concerned, I don't know that it would
necessarily be a problem with the ignition system, especially given
the way the engine seemed to run fine after I refueled. The former
owner stated that he last ran the boat about a month ago, so I don't
think the fuel could have been stale. I'll run some cleaner through it
though and see how I go next time out.

As far as the steering is concerned, how can you tell if a boat has
power steering or not? I know with my father's old outboards it was
easy enough to spot the cables running to either side of the boat, but
this is a different kettle of fish for me. Looking under the console
of my boat all I can see is the steering wheel connected to a four-
sided pipe running left and right. And how can you tell if you have a
bad cable or not? With the boat sitting on the trailer, is there a way
I can run some standard checks, visual or otherwise, that should tell
me if I have problems with the steering?

Lastly, thanks to Jim for the tip about the trim tabs. I was a little
confused on their relationship to the stern drive trim. And by the
way, what the heck is the anti ventilation plate? I know what anodes
are supposed to do on a boat, but I can't place the one you're
referring to. And by the way, the boat does indeed have a tendency at
speed to want to pull to the left.

Thanks.....Tim

A quick PS to SWS.

Your post came in as I was writing my previous response. Thanks for
that information on the use of trim tabs in different conditions. I'm
on a steep learning curve, so the more information like that I can
gather the better. It all helps.

Cheers.........Tim

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:54:47 -0700, timW
wrote:

And by the way, the boat does indeed have a tendency at
speed to want to pull to the left.

When you look at the outdrive (I assume you have an outdrive), just
above the bulge of the gear case is a flat horizontal piece that looks
like a fin attached to the lower unit. That is the cavitation plate.

Under that cavitation plate, towards the rear (stern) of the plate is
a small wedge shaped device called a tab. There is a bolt going
through the plate that the tab is attached to - loosen that bolt and
turn the tab to the right. You don't need to move it much - 1/8 - 1/4
inch at a time until you get the steering to neutral.

With respect to trim and outdrive angle, on my Contender (32' with
twin outboards) it was always easier for me to set the trim tabs to
neutral, bring the boat up on plane using the engine's (drive's) trim
motors, then level the boat using the trim tabs if I needed to.

In my opinion (and there is debate about this which I don't discount
or disparage) trim tabs have very little effect on the plane part of
running. They are really more about leveling the boat from
side-to-side and not raising the stern/bow. That's what the
outdrive/outboard trim is for.

For now, as the boat is new to you, I'd just use the outdrive to get
the boat in proper running trim and just use the trim tabs to level
the boat. In time, as you get used to it, you can experiment with
different run attitudes using the trim tabs. I'll bet any amount of
money that you will find that using the engine's drive as a device to
get on/off plane considerably easier. :)

"timW" wrote
And by the way, what the heck is the anti ventilation plate?

It's the horizontal surface above the prop that people commonly mis-identify
as the "cavitation plate."

Couple of ideas on the out of gas condition:
1. Boat gas gauges are notoriously inaccurate.
2. Depending on the shape of your fuel tank, how low the level really is,
and where the pickup is located, you could be out of gas in one trim
position and okay in another, IE your bow raises, your fuel moves to the
back of the tank, and your pickup is above the fuel level, then you slow
down, drop the bow and you have gas again.

There could be a number of causes for the engine issues, nobody on
here should be able to say which one it is without doubt.

Personally, I'd check the records and see when the last time the fuel
filter was replaced. If it has never been replaced (and that can be
too common) then replace it. If it's dirty you're fuel pressure will
drop passed the filter. Since before hitting the throttle you'll have
full pressure it will slowly bleed down the pressure until the engine
starts to choke.

I think some of the other issues are non-issues because they would
affect the boat at all RPM ranges. What's the condition of the
cooling system? How about the engine timing? Is there a vacuum leak
causing the advanced timing needed for high RPM's also bleeding off
retarding the timing causing it to fire prematurely?

It's not to late to get the boat inspected, it could save you a LOT of
money should something go badly wrong. Search for Marine Surveyors in
your area.

The trim tabs are acting as they should. As the flow of water
increases or decreases the amount of lift is altered. Think of a 747
coming in for a landing, in order to maintain enough lift at a slow
speed flaps are deployed which are not needed at higher speeds. The
angle of attack is directly proportional to the fluid movement.

I'm going to assume what you experienced with the steering is normal
due to the forces on the stern drive. From my personal experience
higher speeds do make it much harder to steer, sometimes in fact there
is fear the wheel will slip out of hand and suddenly jolt the boat
into a different direction. As far as I am aware, that model does not
have power steering. I personally don't know of any boats that do,
maybe at sizes beyond my financial abilities which keep me in
ignorance.