By this statement, I should be able, as a passenger in a car, to hoist
my open can of brew in a salute to the Fuzz in the next lane. Care to
estimate how long it would take for him to hit the skids, and swoop in
on the 6 O'clock for the kill? I'm not sure you know it, but there IS an
open container law here in Washington. Please explain the legal
difference between a boat and a car in this scenario.
JR

Chuck Gould wrote:

but even if
it's borderline unwise a non-operating adult shouldn't be ticketed for
holding a can of beer on a boat.



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

Yeah, many state parks and public beaches have "No Alcoholic Beverages
Allowed" signs all over the place. I put Coca-Coca and Dr. Pepper in
the cooler when I go to those places.
After all, it would be embarrassing to be arrested by a lifeguard.

It wouldn't be a lifeguard arresting you. If they are like Minnesota, the
state parks and larger park systems have their own police officers and the
others can bring in the local authorities quickly.

However, they have better things to do than bust people for alcohol unless
they are causing a problem.

While on a camping trip at a state park, we had a group site (secluded, away
from the main sites). We went for a late night hike and talked with a state
park ranger along the way. He casually asked if we had any alcohol, then
said that if we did, we shouldn't carry it around (we wouldn't anyway) or be
overly loud.

I volunteer with a local (Three Rivers Park District) park district. The
"park patrol" is around for information and first aid. After appropriate
training, we use the trails (skate, bike, hike, ski) and watch for people
who need assistance. Usually it is just to help people figure out where
they are or where something is.
However, if we see a problem, we will call the dispatcher for the park
police.

On Jul 8, 8:59?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jul 8, 5:11?am, HK wrote:
Garrison Hilliard wrote:
200 People Busted For Alcohol-Related Offenses On The Little Miami River
Last Update: Jul 8, 2007 2:26 AM
Close to 200 people fall victim to a sweep on the Little Miami River. Officials
in Warren County were targeting alcohol-related offenses, from open containers
to underage drinking. The operation left many people drying out and forced to
pay a hefty fine.
Many people were feeling the heat, and not because of the temperature. The main
objective of this operation is not to ruin activities but to make sure the
Little Miami River can be a fun place for the whole family.
Out of sight and undercover, officers from several agencies were looking to put
a stop to a common problem. There's a little too much drinking on the Little
Miami River. Area residents living around the river complained of rude and
obnoxious behavior, enough that something had to be done.
The Sackriders, a local family, agree with Warren County officials who say
alcohol and the river don't mix. Most were upset to get ticketed, in over a few
hours authorities handed citations close to 200 people.
The violations ranged from underage drinking to littering and life jacket
violations. Some people on canoes got stopped more than once for the most
popular offense, having an open container. The goal of the crackdown is to make
sure the river is a friendly place for local families to make a splash. Dozens
of empty beer cans were picked up in the seven-hour sweep
Meanwhile, on the water Chris and Rebecca Sackrider will stick to drinking
water. There will be another similar sweep in the near future, but officials in
Warren County are not saying when.
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/s...d=2ccdfc37-1f6...
Works for me. Drunks on the water are damned dangerous.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Subtle distinction: The government sweep didn't target drunks, the
tickets were handed out to people caught with an open bottle of beer
in a boat. If it's 100 degrees, 3-4 guys are out fishing, and somebody
other than the person operating the vessel pops open a beer that
shouldn't be considered a crime. It may be unwise, but if the boat
operator isn't drinking at the helm it's merely a questionable
practice and not a crime. IMO.

There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
being a "drunk".

I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
probably lynch somebody found with a joint.

No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)

You can't drive a car on the highways legally with an open container of
booze. I doubt you could ride a bike doing so, either. But driving a
boat with open containers of booze visible is ok?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are some important differences between cars and boats.
In most states it's also illegal to operate your car unless everybody
is in a seat belt and normally a shoulder harness. Would you propose a
similar restriction for boats?

A car is nothing more than vehicle of conveyance, while a boat can be
simultaneously a conveyance and a means of accommodation.

I don't suggest the skipper should be drinking underway, but busting
the skipper seated up on the flybridge because a guest down in the
salon is having a cold beer or a glass of Merlot on a summer afternoon
is way over the top.

Good thing there's no actual crime in Ohio, thereby freeing 45 of the
local cops to spend an afternoon preventing the consumption of beer on
the Little Miami river.

On Jul 8, 9:17?am, John Kuthe wrote:
On Jul 8, 11:07 am, "Reginald P. Smithers III"





wrote:
HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jul 8, 5:11?am, HK wrote:
Garrison Hilliard wrote:
200 People Busted For Alcohol-Related Offenses On The Little Miami
River
Last Update: Jul 8, 2007 2:26 AM
Close to 200 people fall victim to a sweep on the Little Miami
River. Officials
in Warren County were targeting alcohol-related offenses, from open
containers
to underage drinking. The operation left many people drying out and
forced to
pay a hefty fine.
Many people were feeling the heat, and not because of the
temperature. The main
objective of this operation is not to ruin activities but to make
sure the
Little Miami River can be a fun place for the whole family.
Out of sight and undercover, officers from several agencies were
looking to put
a stop to a common problem. There's a little too much drinking on
the Little
Miami River. Area residents living around the river complained of
rude and
obnoxious behavior, enough that something had to be done.
The Sackriders, a local family, agree with Warren County officials
who say
alcohol and the river don't mix. Most were upset to get ticketed, in
over a few
hours authorities handed citations close to 200 people.
The violations ranged from underage drinking to littering and life
jacket
violations. Some people on canoes got stopped more than once for the
most
popular offense, having an open container. The goal of the crackdown
is to make
sure the river is a friendly place for local families to make a
splash. Dozens
of empty beer cans were picked up in the seven-hour sweep
Meanwhile, on the water Chris and Rebecca Sackrider will stick to
drinking
water. There will be another similar sweep in the near future, but
officials in
Warren County are not saying when.
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/s...d=2ccdfc37-1f6...

Works for me. Drunks on the water are damned dangerous.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

Subtle distinction: The government sweep didn't target drunks, the
tickets were handed out to people caught with an open bottle of beer
in a boat. If it's 100 degrees, 3-4 guys are out fishing, and somebody
other than the person operating the vessel pops open a beer that
shouldn't be considered a crime. It may be unwise, but if the boat
operator isn't drinking at the helm it's merely a questionable
practice and not a crime. IMO.

There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
being a "drunk".

I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
probably lynch somebody found with a joint.

No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)

You can't drive a car on the highways legally with an open container of
booze. I doubt you could ride a bike doing so, either. But driving a
boat with open containers of booze visible is ok?

I have heard you say many times, that you have had a beer on a boat on
hot summer day, and that you allow others to drink on your boat, you
just don't allow them to get drunk. Is that ok with you?

People (not an individual person) often get irresponsible and out of
control when alcohol is involved. I've seen it ruin many a perfectly
good, responsible and happy a festive time where many individuals are
enjoying alcohol responsibly.

People SUCK! Remember? We see many instances of this sucky behavior
all the time. Many instances involve alcohol too, unfortunately. Ruins
the good responsible time for the rest of us, yano? :-(

John Kuthe...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So in my opinion we should target the problem people, not a common
behavior in which (as you note) many will participate with voluntary
and responsible restraint.

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jul 8, 8:59?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jul 8, 5:11?am, HK wrote:
Garrison Hilliard wrote:
200 People Busted For Alcohol-Related Offenses On The Little Miami River
Last Update: Jul 8, 2007 2:26 AM
Close to 200 people fall victim to a sweep on the Little Miami River. Officials
in Warren County were targeting alcohol-related offenses, from open containers
to underage drinking. The operation left many people drying out and forced to
pay a hefty fine.
Many people were feeling the heat, and not because of the temperature. The main
objective of this operation is not to ruin activities but to make sure the
Little Miami River can be a fun place for the whole family.
Out of sight and undercover, officers from several agencies were looking to put
a stop to a common problem. There's a little too much drinking on the Little
Miami River. Area residents living around the river complained of rude and
obnoxious behavior, enough that something had to be done.
The Sackriders, a local family, agree with Warren County officials who say
alcohol and the river don't mix. Most were upset to get ticketed, in over a few
hours authorities handed citations close to 200 people.
The violations ranged from underage drinking to littering and life jacket
violations. Some people on canoes got stopped more than once for the most
popular offense, having an open container. The goal of the crackdown is to make
sure the river is a friendly place for local families to make a splash. Dozens
of empty beer cans were picked up in the seven-hour sweep
Meanwhile, on the water Chris and Rebecca Sackrider will stick to drinking
water. There will be another similar sweep in the near future, but officials in
Warren County are not saying when.
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/s...d=2ccdfc37-1f6...
Works for me. Drunks on the water are damned dangerous.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Subtle distinction: The government sweep didn't target drunks, the
tickets were handed out to people caught with an open bottle of beer
in a boat. If it's 100 degrees, 3-4 guys are out fishing, and somebody
other than the person operating the vessel pops open a beer that
shouldn't be considered a crime. It may be unwise, but if the boat
operator isn't drinking at the helm it's merely a questionable
practice and not a crime. IMO.
There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
being a "drunk".
I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
probably lynch somebody found with a joint.
No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)
You can't drive a car on the highways legally with an open container of
booze. I doubt you could ride a bike doing so, either. But driving a
boat with open containers of booze visible is ok?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are some important differences between cars and boats.
In most states it's also illegal to operate your car unless everybody
is in a seat belt and normally a shoulder harness. Would you propose a
similar restriction for boats?

A car is nothing more than vehicle of conveyance, while a boat can be
simultaneously a conveyance and a means of accommodation.

I don't suggest the skipper should be drinking underway, but busting
the skipper seated up on the flybridge because a guest down in the
salon is having a cold beer or a glass of Merlot on a summer afternoon
is way over the top.

Good thing there's no actual crime in Ohio, thereby freeing 45 of the
local cops to spend an afternoon preventing the consumption of beer on
the Little Miami river.




I don't spend a lot of time thinking about booze and boats, Chuck. So
far this year, I've had two beers, and both were consumed in my den
after spending four hours mowing my lawn and field. I have one friend
who is an alcoholic. When he comes aboard, I restrict his cooler to two
beers. Maybe once or twice a year, I have a beer on board, but only
while anchored or in a slip.

I don't believe the case you cited involved drinking a glass of wine in
the salon.

On Jul 8, 10:06?am, Tim wrote:
On Jul 8, 11:52 am, "Jim" wrote:





"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

roups.com...
| On Jul 8, 5:11?am, HK wrote:
| Garrison Hilliard wrote:
| 200 People Busted For Alcohol-Related Offenses On The Little Miami
River
| Last Update: Jul 8, 2007 2:26 AM
|
| Close to 200 people fall victim to a sweep on the Little Miami River.
Officials
| in Warren County were targeting alcohol-related offenses, from open
containers
| to underage drinking. The operation left many people drying out and
forced to
| pay a hefty fine.
|
| Many people were feeling the heat, and not because of the temperature.
The main
| objective of this operation is not to ruin activities but to make sure
the
| Little Miami River can be a fun place for the whole family.
|
| Out of sight and undercover, officers from several agencies were
looking to put
| a stop to a common problem. There's a little too much drinking on the
Little
| Miami River. Area residents living around the river complained of rude
and
| obnoxious behavior, enough that something had to be done.
|
| The Sackriders, a local family, agree with Warren County officials who
say
| alcohol and the river don't mix. Most were upset to get ticketed, in
over a few
| hours authorities handed citations close to 200 people.
|
| The violations ranged from underage drinking to littering and life
jacket
| violations. Some people on canoes got stopped more than once for the
most
| popular offense, having an open container. The goal of the crackdown
is to make
| sure the river is a friendly place for local families to make a
splash. Dozens
| of empty beer cans were picked up in the seven-hour sweep
|
| Meanwhile, on the water Chris and Rebecca Sackrider will stick to
drinking
| water. There will be another similar sweep in the near future, but
officials in
| Warren County are not saying when.
|
|
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/s...d=2ccdfc37-1f6...
|
| Works for me. Drunks on the water are damned dangerous.- Hide quoted
text -
|
| - Show quoted text -
|
| Subtle distinction: The government sweep didn't target drunks, the
| tickets were handed out to people caught with an open bottle of beer
| in a boat. If it's 100 degrees, 3-4 guys are out fishing, and somebody
| other than the person operating the vessel pops open a beer that
| shouldn't be considered a crime. It may be unwise, but if the boat
| operator isn't drinking at the helm it's merely a questionable
| practice and not a crime. IMO.
|
| There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
| being a "drunk".
|
| I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
| Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
| doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
| probably lynch somebody found with a joint.
|
| No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)

What the hell is a doobie? Is it one of those new designer drugs?
Does it give you the feeling that Kansas and Nebraska are closing in on the
left coast.
Good to see you a little closer to the fusilage than ol' HK, at least on
this issue. There may be redemption for you yet.
|

All in all, I don't allow any alcoholic beverages on my boat. Most of
my friends don't drink, and the ones that do don't give me any hassle
about my "rule".

And it should indeed be the skipper's privilege to formulate an
alcohol policy for his or her boat. And it would be for the best if
more boaters had a policy similar to yours......but should it be a
*crime* to allow a guest to enjoy a beer while underway? I think not.




Carylyle Lake does a pretty good sweep a couple times a year too. They
don't get wild about "open seal" though, but when none of the boats
occupants can pass the breath blower, then things get interesting.

And it does happen.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jul 8, 12:32?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 08:47:28 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
being a "drunk".

It's a little more complicated than that.

The combination of alcohol and sun can lead to dehydration - even one
can cause the effect if one hasn't taken precautions by drinking
non-caffinated beverages like water or a sports drink. Even one 12
ounce can of beer can do the trick - in particular if somebody hasn't
eaten or had some water along the way.

If you are just sitting on your house deck, drinking a beer and eating
a burger, that's not going to create a problem as such.

On a boat, that's a whole different story. Movement, wind, the
accelerated dual effect of direct sun and reflected sun can dehydrate
you in short order. Add 12 ounces of beer, it's possible that you can
have or be a problem in short order.

The sad thing is you won't even know it until it happens. All of a
sudden, exhaustion sets in. A cold beer sounds gppd and the effect in
compounded.

When I was active with the local Vollies, I've seen it happen a number
of times on local lakes - I only had one beer.

Never doubted it for a second. :)

I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
probably lynch somebody found with a joint.

Not the issue and I'm surprised that you would make such a statement.

An open container law bans an open container of alcohol in the
passenger compartment of a vehicle and/or boat. The goal is to stop
people from drinking and driving, it almost goes without saying that
an open container law should stop people from drinking WHILE driving.

And that's really the issue - drinking while driving and boating.

No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)

You ought to check our own state's Open Container law then because
it's one of the more drastic ones in terms of fines and effects.

I agree that it's questionable to allow people to drink on board, but
there's a sliding scale of risk that effectively decreases as the size
of the boat increases. Those large charter and sightseeing boats run
non-stop bars. Booze was easily available on our recent cruise ship
vacation 24 hours a day. 2400 passengers, most of them drinking at
least a little bit every day for a week straight and some almost non-
stop, and not a single incident where the safety of the vessel was
compromised or the risk of going overboard was dramatically increased.

I offer again my example from earlier in this thread. Joe Doaks has a
party of guests out for an afternoon cruise. Joe isn't drinking, and
in fact he's piloting the boat from the flybridge. Down below in the
salon, Mrs. Doaks is serving Margaritas to a couple guests of legal
drinking age. Is Joe Doaks a criminal? Should he be hauled into court
and made to answer for his behavior? In many states, certain boating
offenses cross reference to your vehicular driving license, so should
stone sober Joe's car insurance be cancelled or his premiums be
doubled because somebody else on his boat (well out of reach of the
skipper) had an alcoholic beverage?

Last year at our Seafair hydroplane races the Seattle cops did one of
these mass arrest deals. They had to rent portable jails to lock up
everybody they were processing. The difference was, the Seattle cops
where targeting people exhibiting drunken behavior (not merely people
who might be having a beer while watching the hydroplane races). The
Seattle cops also focused on underage drinkers.

I've always like the European approach to alcohol. In many societies
it's common to serve beer to school kids, and entire families often
enjoy a drink together. The difference is that becoming publicly
intoxicated is a very serious screw up, and getting caught DWI will
typically result in very serious punishment even for "first
offenders".

"Corsair23" wrote in message
ups.com...


I agree, NO BOOZE...times have changed.


That's just law enforcement grandstanding to "appear" they are doing
something... gee? Who put out the press release??? heh

Silly sheeple.

Last night we had we had a "fireworks party" out at the T41 "Beer Can
Island". It took me 13 minutes to get there on plane at 7pm.... it took
me 1.5 hours to get home trolling at 1200 rpm at 12:30AM with a BAC of
between .08 and .10.

I'm *very* hesitant to plane the boat out at night in the dark anyway,
because I'm afraid some drunk fisherman will have his lights off. But I
never **EVER** go above troll if drinking. For one thing, the marine patroll
doesn't bother inobtrusive trolling people... and further it's just not
safe... and yes I wore my PFD to pee off the swim platform - just in case.


I'm very aware and very sensitive to drunk boaters - my cousin was
(famously) killed by one in NH on a Memorial Day weekend. But that *doesn't*
mean my sence of right and wrong change with the wind of public opinion. A
drinking boater or a canoe at NO speed can't really hurt a fly. The possible
exception being *themselves* if they fall in the water and drown... and I
don't want Big Brother Nanny interfering with good old fashioned Darwinism.


I have no problem with little boats (and pontoons) running at "headway
speed" with a load of beer and good old boys with fishing poles aboard.
HOWEVER... I'm all for throwing the book at BUI's up on plane. All the
Marine Patroll has to do is look for "strange behavior" in order to get the
real assholes off the water. Not some bull**** PR stunt, a "sweep" like that
is waste or resources and money. (but it looks good in print)

Personally... after the last few days... I think the flaming idiots who run
a tube side to side in the travel channels are the worst problem. I've had
**way** too many chances to contribute to Darwinism by running thier
sniveling offspring on a rope over. I'll take a **trolling** drunk any day
over those child endangering assholes.

-W

W: Charlie.... kill the stereo and start the motor. please.
C: WHY???
W: Because I see a boat comeing up way too fast for 3AM, and I'm afraid he's
even drunker than we are (if that's even humanly possible). I just wanna be
ready to get TF out of his way if he's too blind to see our anchor light.
You can kill it again when he's gone by us....

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 18:18:07 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Harry,
Why have you decided to change your name from Harry Krause to HK? Did
you decried it does make sense to follow the advice of internet security
experts and use a handle instead of your name?

Reginald,

Why do you insist on reposting every single bit of previous drivel
instead of snipping to something half way relevant?

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 12:53:32 -0400, animal05
wrote:

Harry, as usual is incorrect, there are states that it is still legal to
do so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...container_laws

Note that the federal guidelines apply to:

1. Motor vehicles

2. Vehicles on a public highway or the right-of-way (i.e. on the
shoulder) of a public highway