I tried to find any specification throgh the local dealer, and he did
not even get an answer at Sea Ray in the States (neither yes nor no,
essentially along the lines of we do not supply it so we do not know):

I would like to have a 4'/22kg Radar antenna on a Sea Ray 315 Sundancer
Sport Spoiler, Molded Fiberglass (Seamless) w/Overhead Lighting.

Is this workable, as I do not seem to get an answer from SeaRay?
Or is there a lower weight limit so I would have to forego the
advantages of a big enough antenna?

TIA

Marc

--
Switzerland/Europe
http://www.heusser.com
remove CHEERS and from MERCIAL to get valid e-mail

Marc Heusser alid
wrote in :

I tried to find any specification throgh the local dealer, and he did
not even get an answer at Sea Ray in the States (neither yes nor no,
essentially along the lines of we do not supply it so we do not know):

I would like to have a 4'/22kg Radar antenna on a Sea Ray 315 Sundancer
Sport Spoiler, Molded Fiberglass (Seamless) w/Overhead Lighting.

Is this workable, as I do not seem to get an answer from SeaRay?
Or is there a lower weight limit so I would have to forego the
advantages of a big enough antenna?

TIA

Marc


Marc, let's take a look at reality on radar......

Radar cannot see further than the horizon.

The horizon depends on how far UP the antenna is mounted.

From your SR31, we're up just above the flybridge. How far can YOU see
with binoculars...6 miles? 5? Check it out.

If we had a 500KW military surface search radar on your arch, it could
"see" targets 6 miles away....maybe 8 or 9 if they are TALL targets like
lighthouses, radio towers, etc. So, what's the point?

You're not as tall as a containership, who can use a more powerful radar.
So, why waste money on HIS radar transceiver??

From up there, how about the 4KW radome? Loading on both the arch and
your electrical system are lots less, also your wallet. 4KW has no
trouble making a target at 8 miles. Ours is only 2KW on the sailboat,
but we don't have it high up because if you put the antenna up high you
CANNOT SEE THAT DAMNED BOUY YOU ARE ABOUT TO RUN OVER IN THE FOG because
the high antenna is shooting right over the top of it. Ours is up 35' on
the mizzenmast, probably higher than your arch. It can see the dock 3
slips away, plenty of return from that bouy in the fog.

I know the big swinging radar horn impresses the other sailors and looks
cool like you're an aircraft carrier....but why?....(c;

Besides, you're not going 400 knots like a jet. If you can see targets 2
miles away you have MINUTES to turn away...not seconds. That's far
enough for collision avoidance isn't it?

Larry
--
While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish.
While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either.
While in Florida, I had to press 2 for English.
It just isn't fair.

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:18:16 +0000, Larry wrote:

Marc Heusser alid
wrote in :

I tried to find any specification throgh the local dealer, and he did
not even get an answer at Sea Ray in the States (neither yes nor no,
essentially along the lines of we do not supply it so we do not know):

I would like to have a 4'/22kg Radar antenna on a Sea Ray 315 Sundancer
Sport Spoiler, Molded Fiberglass (Seamless) w/Overhead Lighting.

Is this workable, as I do not seem to get an answer from SeaRay?
Or is there a lower weight limit so I would have to forego the
advantages of a big enough antenna?

TIA

Marc


Marc, let's take a look at reality on radar......

Radar cannot see further than the horizon.

Not true.

The horizon depends on how far UP the antenna is mounted.

Also not true.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:18:16 +0000, Larry wrote:

Marc Heusser alid
wrote in :

I tried to find any specification throgh the local dealer, and he did
not even get an answer at Sea Ray in the States (neither yes nor no,
essentially along the lines of we do not supply it so we do not know):

I would like to have a 4'/22kg Radar antenna on a Sea Ray 315 Sundancer
Sport Spoiler, Molded Fiberglass (Seamless) w/Overhead Lighting.

Is this workable, as I do not seem to get an answer from SeaRay?
Or is there a lower weight limit so I would have to forego the
advantages of a big enough antenna?

TIA

Marc

Marc, let's take a look at reality on radar......

Radar cannot see further than the horizon.

Not true.

The horizon depends on how far UP the antenna is mounted.

Also not true.


Indeed. Also, the line of sight limitations for VHF radios are not hard
and fast. I've been out on the bay with my handheld VHF with its puck
antenna and successfully sent and received some days 2X line of sight
and maybe 3X. Other days, reception sucks. Even with a 25W "installed"
VHF with a top quality 8' antenna.

Cell coverage, at least on the parts of the Bay I frequent, is more
reliable.

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:08:06 -0400, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:18:16 +0000, Larry wrote:

Marc Heusser alid
wrote in :

I tried to find any specification throgh the local dealer, and he did
not even get an answer at Sea Ray in the States (neither yes nor no,
essentially along the lines of we do not supply it so we do not know):

I would like to have a 4'/22kg Radar antenna on a Sea Ray 315 Sundancer
Sport Spoiler, Molded Fiberglass (Seamless) w/Overhead Lighting.

Is this workable, as I do not seem to get an answer from SeaRay?
Or is there a lower weight limit so I would have to forego the
advantages of a big enough antenna?

TIA

Marc

Marc, let's take a look at reality on radar......

Radar cannot see further than the horizon.

Not true.

The horizon depends on how far UP the antenna is mounted.

Also not true.

Indeed. Also, the line of sight limitations for VHF radios are not hard
and fast. I've been out on the bay with my handheld VHF with its puck
antenna and successfully sent and received some days 2X line of sight
and maybe 3X. Other days, reception sucks. Even with a 25W "installed"
VHF with a top quality 8' antenna.

Cell coverage, at least on the parts of the Bay I frequent, is more
reliable.

Radar seeing beyond the horizon depends on a number of factors
including the height of the antenna - Larry is right in that aspect.

However, seeing over the horizon depends on what is beyond the
horizon. You might not be able to "see" a sail boat reflector over
the horizon, but the radar will. From what I remember from my old
radar days, it's about 15/20% further than the horizon. That could be
wrong, but I know radar can see further than the horizon.

Secondly, it depends on the definition of "horizon". If it's pea soup
fog and you can't see further than 15 feet from the bow - that is your
effective "horizon" and radar can certainly see further than 15 feet.

Larry's point about the large array on a smallish boat close to the
water is a good one - I was just pointing out that he was being a
little too literal in his interpretation. Nothing Larry said is
technically "incorrect".

It's all in the application of terminology. :)

"HK" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:18:16 +0000, Larry wrote:

Marc Heusser alid
wrote in :

I tried to find any specification throgh the local dealer, and he did
not even get an answer at Sea Ray in the States (neither yes nor no,
essentially along the lines of we do not supply it so we do not know):

I would like to have a 4'/22kg Radar antenna on a Sea Ray 315 Sundancer
Sport Spoiler, Molded Fiberglass (Seamless) w/Overhead Lighting.

Is this workable, as I do not seem to get an answer from SeaRay?
Or is there a lower weight limit so I would have to forego the
advantages of a big enough antenna?

TIA

Marc

Marc, let's take a look at reality on radar......

Radar cannot see further than the horizon.

Not true.

The horizon depends on how far UP the antenna is mounted.

Also not true.


Indeed. Also, the line of sight limitations for VHF radios are not hard
and fast. I've been out on the bay with my handheld VHF with its puck
antenna and successfully sent and received some days 2X line of sight and
maybe 3X. Other days, reception sucks. Even with a 25W "installed" VHF
with a top quality 8' antenna.

Cell coverage, at least on the parts of the Bay I frequent, is more
reliable.


I've been out 70 miles in the Gulf, and listened on the VHF to Tow Boat US
Palm Beach talk to a vessel in distress over on the East Coast.

"Larry" wrote in message ...
Marc Heusser alid
wrote in :

I tried to find any specification throgh the local dealer, and he did
not even get an answer at Sea Ray in the States (neither yes nor no,
essentially along the lines of we do not supply it so we do not know):

I would like to have a 4'/22kg Radar antenna on a Sea Ray 315 Sundancer
Sport Spoiler, Molded Fiberglass (Seamless) w/Overhead Lighting.

Is this workable, as I do not seem to get an answer from SeaRay?
Or is there a lower weight limit so I would have to forego the
advantages of a big enough antenna?

TIA

Marc


Marc, let's take a look at reality on radar......

Radar cannot see further than the horizon.

The horizon depends on how far UP the antenna is mounted.

From your SR31, we're up just above the flybridge. How far can YOU see
with binoculars...6 miles? 5? Check it out.

If we had a 500KW military surface search radar on your arch, it could
"see" targets 6 miles away....maybe 8 or 9 if they are TALL targets like
lighthouses, radio towers, etc. So, what's the point?

snip....


Though you might not see targets farther, with a larger antenna you would
have a better resolution, and that would be a good thing, don't you think?


snip....

Larry
--
While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish.
While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either.
While in Florida, I had to press 2 for English.
It just isn't fair.

Harbin Osteen wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message ...


Larry
--
While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish.
While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either.
While in Florida, I had to press 2 for English.
It just isn't fair.



Poor baby. Some of us speak and read more than one language. You should
have paid attention in school. Last time we were in Mexico, we spoke
"schoolbook" Spanish for the first few days, and then managed to pick up
on Mexican Spanish enough to feel at ease.

In article ,
Larry wrote:

....
Radar cannot see further than the horizon.
The horizon depends on how far UP the antenna is mounted.

I know - MSEE and lots of experience in this band in military service.

I am more interested in the mechanics of SR arches than electronics.

From your SR31, we're up just above the flybridge. How far can YOU
see
with binoculars...6 miles? 5? Check it out.

If we had a 500KW military surface search radar on your arch, it could
"see" targets 6 miles away....maybe 8 or 9 if they are TALL targets like
lighthouses, radio towers, etc. So, what's the point?

In a word: Resolution. A radome antenna has 4 to 6 degrees horizontal
beam width, a 4' slot antenna less has 1.8 degrees. Makes all the
difference in tight places like rivers. Like seeing one or two ships. Or
a small ship or sea clutter.
I would go as far as saying that horizontal resolution is the only
specification to worry about. What has not been captured by the antenna
is never going to show up on the display.

You're not as tall as a containership, who can use a more powerful radar.
So, why waste money on HIS radar transceiver??

From up there, how about the 4KW radome? Loading on both the arch and
your electrical system are lots less, also your wallet. 4KW has no
trouble making a target at 8 miles.

I AM talking about 4 kW, no more. What did you expect?

....
I know the big swinging radar horn impresses the other sailors and looks
cool like you're an aircraft carrier....but why?....(c;

I have no TV antenna, a 6" VHF antenna only, and no satellite dish
compensated for the movements ... sorry, no need to impress. I'd rather
be sailing anyway but it is not possible.


Besides, you're not going 400 knots like a jet. If you can see targets 2
miles away you have MINUTES to turn away...not seconds. That's far
enough for collision avoidance isn't it?

As I said above: It's all about resolution. Like seeing a small boat
without lights when going 25 knots in darkness.

Do you know what the actual permissible mechanical load would be on my
arch?

TIA

Marc

--
Switzerland/Europe
http://www.heusser.com
remove CHEERS and from MERCIAL to get valid e-mail

"HK" wrote in message
...
Harbin Osteen wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message
...


Larry
--
While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish.
While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either.
While in Florida, I had to press 2 for English.
It just isn't fair.



Poor baby. Some of us speak and read more than one language.

But you understand English.........right?

My grandparents (both sides) learned English when they came over. They also
came over legally, as did millions of other immigrants.

Folks with your type of thinking have ruined America and the future quality
of life for my children, grandchildren.........etc.........

I feel sorry for them based on the world they will be living in.

Thanks Harry.