On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:28:54 -0700, Tim wrote:

On Sep 23, 2:11 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:19:31 -0000,
wrote:

I want to install my battery in the bow of my 16 foot skiff. The
battery will power the starter for a 25 horse electric start
evinrude.
The total cable length will be 18 feet, no breaks. What guage wire do
I need to use, do I need to use something as big as a car like 4
guage, or can I use 8?? How many amps does a typical 25 horse starter
draw?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Go to Abuchon's and get 20 feet of #10 zip wire. You don't need
anything larger than #10 - that starter doesn't require tons of amps.

Assuming you have a RV type battery, get 5/16 and 3/8 lugs - crimp on.

Get some shrink tubing for the lugs.

Get some acid free soldering flux.

Optional - obtain a circuit breaker panel like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2lnqz4

Run the wire, Install the shrink wrap, install the lugs, crimp them
lightly, solder the lugs, shrink the shrink wrap, hook up the circuit
breaker box (assuming you obtain one) and that's it.

No need for #8 or #4 - you don't have anything heavy enough on that
boat to require that.

Just Wait

For what?

Even for #8 Tom, tis best to have and not nead, than to need and not
have."

\However to eat my own words, I think that going "marine" this, and
"marine" that is a bit of over kill. I mean, I work around farm
machinery that sits out in the weather for years, and will take much
more of a beating than What that little skiff will ever see. And not
meaning to be offensive to anyone, but going to a marina to get
"marine grade" for this project is a bit overkill to the wallet
instead of hardware store and automotive parts that will function fine
with less pricing.

Tom, if 8 g. is too big, then go 10g. it's good for about 70a. on
12v . After all, the least it will do while cranking the 25 horse (if
having a hard to start spell). is slowly melt the insulation
off.. ?:

Duh - that's why I said go get some #10 zip cord. They sell it by the
foot. Uv resistant because they use it outside on farms. Cheap and
easy to use.

#8 is WAY overkill - #10 is overkill for that engine, but that's the
safest.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:28:54 -0700, Tim wrote:

On Sep 23, 2:11 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:19:31 -0000,
wrote:

I want to install my battery in the bow of my 16 foot skiff. The
battery will power the starter for a 25 horse electric start
evinrude.
The total cable length will be 18 feet, no breaks. What guage wire do
I need to use, do I need to use something as big as a car like 4
guage, or can I use 8?? How many amps does a typical 25 horse starter
draw?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Go to Abuchon's and get 20 feet of #10 zip wire. You don't need
anything larger than #10 - that starter doesn't require tons of amps.

Assuming you have a RV type battery, get 5/16 and 3/8 lugs - crimp on.

Get some shrink tubing for the lugs.

Get some acid free soldering flux.

Optional - obtain a circuit breaker panel like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2lnqz4

Run the wire, Install the shrink wrap, install the lugs, crimp them
lightly, solder the lugs, shrink the shrink wrap, hook up the circuit
breaker box (assuming you obtain one) and that's it.

No need for #8 or #4 - you don't have anything heavy enough on that
boat to require that.

Just Wait

For what?

Even for #8 Tom, tis best to have and not nead, than to need and not
have."

\However to eat my own words, I think that going "marine" this, and
"marine" that is a bit of over kill. I mean, I work around farm
machinery that sits out in the weather for years, and will take much
more of a beating than What that little skiff will ever see. And not
meaning to be offensive to anyone, but going to a marina to get
"marine grade" for this project is a bit overkill to the wallet
instead of hardware store and automotive parts that will function fine
with less pricing.

Tom, if 8 g. is too big, then go 10g. it's good for about 70a. on
12v . After all, the least it will do while cranking the 25 horse (if
having a hard to start spell). is slowly melt the insulation
off.. ?:

Duh - that's why I said go get some #10 zip cord. They sell it by the
foot. Uv resistant because they use it outside on farms. Cheap and
easy to use.

#8 is WAY overkill - #10 is overkill for that engine, but that's the
safest.

I was thinking 16 ga lamp cord would do the job.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:16:23 -0400, "Jim" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:28:54 -0700, Tim wrote:

On Sep 23, 2:11 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:19:31 -0000,
wrote:

I want to install my battery in the bow of my 16 foot skiff. The
battery will power the starter for a 25 horse electric start
evinrude.
The total cable length will be 18 feet, no breaks. What guage wire do
I need to use, do I need to use something as big as a car like 4
guage, or can I use 8?? How many amps does a typical 25 horse starter
draw?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Go to Abuchon's and get 20 feet of #10 zip wire. You don't need
anything larger than #10 - that starter doesn't require tons of amps.

Assuming you have a RV type battery, get 5/16 and 3/8 lugs - crimp on.

Get some shrink tubing for the lugs.

Get some acid free soldering flux.

Optional - obtain a circuit breaker panel like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2lnqz4

Run the wire, Install the shrink wrap, install the lugs, crimp them
lightly, solder the lugs, shrink the shrink wrap, hook up the circuit
breaker box (assuming you obtain one) and that's it.

No need for #8 or #4 - you don't have anything heavy enough on that
boat to require that.

Just Wait

For what?

Even for #8 Tom, tis best to have and not nead, than to need and not
have."

\However to eat my own words, I think that going "marine" this, and
"marine" that is a bit of over kill. I mean, I work around farm
machinery that sits out in the weather for years, and will take much
more of a beating than What that little skiff will ever see. And not
meaning to be offensive to anyone, but going to a marina to get
"marine grade" for this project is a bit overkill to the wallet
instead of hardware store and automotive parts that will function fine
with less pricing.

Tom, if 8 g. is too big, then go 10g. it's good for about 70a. on
12v . After all, the least it will do while cranking the 25 horse (if
having a hard to start spell). is slowly melt the insulation
off.. ?:

Duh - that's why I said go get some #10 zip cord. They sell it by the
foot. Uv resistant because they use it outside on farms. Cheap and
easy to use.

#8 is WAY overkill - #10 is overkill for that engine, but that's the
safest.

I was thinking 16 ga lamp cord would do the job.

#21 radio wire.

Uninsulated - it's a wooden boat. :)

On Sep 23, 3:31 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:16:23 -0400, "Jim" wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:28:54 -0700, Tim wrote:

On Sep 23, 2:11 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:19:31 -0000,
wrote:

I want to install my battery in the bow of my 16 foot skiff. The
battery will power the starter for a 25 horse electric start
evinrude.
The total cable length will be 18 feet, no breaks. What guage wire do
I need to use, do I need to use something as big as a car like 4
guage, or can I use 8?? How many amps does a typical 25 horse starter
draw?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Go to Abuchon's and get 20 feet of #10 zip wire. You don't need
anything larger than #10 - that starter doesn't require tons of amps.

Assuming you have a RV type battery, get 5/16 and 3/8 lugs - crimp on.

Get some shrink tubing for the lugs.

Get some acid free soldering flux.

Optional - obtain a circuit breaker panel like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2lnqz4

Run the wire, Install the shrink wrap, install the lugs, crimp them
lightly, solder the lugs, shrink the shrink wrap, hook up the circuit
breaker box (assuming you obtain one) and that's it.

No need for #8 or #4 - you don't have anything heavy enough on that
boat to require that.

Just Wait

For what?

Even for #8 Tom, tis best to have and not nead, than to need and not
have."

\However to eat my own words, I think that going "marine" this, and
"marine" that is a bit of over kill. I mean, I work around farm
machinery that sits out in the weather for years, and will take much
more of a beating than What that little skiff will ever see. And not
meaning to be offensive to anyone, but going to a marina to get
"marine grade" for this project is a bit overkill to the wallet
instead of hardware store and automotive parts that will function fine
with less pricing.

Tom, if 8 g. is too big, then go 10g. it's good for about 70a. on
12v . After all, the least it will do while cranking the 25 horse (if
having a hard to start spell). is slowly melt the insulation
off.. ?:

Duh - that's why I said go get some #10 zip cord. They sell it by the
foot. Uv resistant because they use it outside on farms. Cheap and
easy to use.

#8 is WAY overkill - #10 is overkill for that engine, but that's the
safest.

I was thinking 16 ga lamp cord would do the job.

#21 radio wire.

Uninsulated - it's a wooden boat. :)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

21? get real.

Take apart an old mechanical delco voltage regulator, there you have a
nice spool of 38.

makes a nice *snap* with more than a 3 a 12v load!

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
Get some shrink tubing for the lugs.

Get some acid free soldering flux.

Never solder cable subject to vibration. Just don't do it. Or you will
have to rework it in time, likely on the water. The strands will flex an
break, the insulation will degrade and when few strands are left the current
will burn the rest out. That is if the solder joint isn't cold or cracks.

Always crimp such connections and not at the collar of the connector but in
the middle and towards the eyelet. This allows the strands to flex in an
arc and not a point at the collar of the crimp connector and allow flex
without breakage.

Gene Kerns advise above is good but I might add:

Stuff some small amount of axle or non-conducting grease into the shoulder
of the crimp connector after crimping. The idea is once the heat shrink has
shrunk a small amount will squeeze out and no air or moisture can get in.
Will last longer and not oxidize as fast.

The breaker size should be 5-20% larger than the peek current draw. Don't
put a 40 amp breaker on a 15 amp starter even if the wire can take more.
The breaker is as much to protect battery, wire and starter. Yes, as Gene
suggested if the run of wire is long, up the size a notch to compensate for
resistance. And use stranded marine grade.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:16:23 -0400, "Jim" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:28:54 -0700, Tim wrote:

On Sep 23, 2:11 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:19:31 -0000,
wrote:

I want to install my battery in the bow of my 16 foot skiff. The
battery will power the starter for a 25 horse electric start
evinrude.
The total cable length will be 18 feet, no breaks. What guage wire do
I need to use, do I need to use something as big as a car like 4
guage, or can I use 8?? How many amps does a typical 25 horse starter
draw?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Go to Abuchon's and get 20 feet of #10 zip wire. You don't need
anything larger than #10 - that starter doesn't require tons of amps.

Assuming you have a RV type battery, get 5/16 and 3/8 lugs - crimp on.

Get some shrink tubing for the lugs.

Get some acid free soldering flux.

Optional - obtain a circuit breaker panel like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2lnqz4

Run the wire, Install the shrink wrap, install the lugs, crimp them
lightly, solder the lugs, shrink the shrink wrap, hook up the circuit
breaker box (assuming you obtain one) and that's it.

No need for #8 or #4 - you don't have anything heavy enough on that
boat to require that.

Just Wait

For what?

Even for #8 Tom, tis best to have and not nead, than to need and not
have."

\However to eat my own words, I think that going "marine" this, and
"marine" that is a bit of over kill. I mean, I work around farm
machinery that sits out in the weather for years, and will take much
more of a beating than What that little skiff will ever see. And not
meaning to be offensive to anyone, but going to a marina to get
"marine grade" for this project is a bit overkill to the wallet
instead of hardware store and automotive parts that will function fine
with less pricing.

Tom, if 8 g. is too big, then go 10g. it's good for about 70a. on
12v . After all, the least it will do while cranking the 25 horse (if
having a hard to start spell). is slowly melt the insulation
off.. ?:

Duh - that's why I said go get some #10 zip cord. They sell it by the
foot. Uv resistant because they use it outside on farms. Cheap and
easy to use.

#8 is WAY overkill - #10 is overkill for that engine, but that's the
safest.

I was thinking 16 ga lamp cord would do the job.

#21 radio wire.

Uninsulated - it's a wooden boat. :)

Funny, I hope he does not take this seriously.

Doing a quick google, a 25HP merc was 15a DC (may vary to model), for that
and a 16' run I would go #8 stranded. You could use #10 but why skimp for
the extra pennies.

If it was a house, #12 would be plenty but this is a boat with vibration and
flex.

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:47:32 GMT, "Canuck57"
wrote:

Never solder cable subject to vibration. Just don't do it. Or you will
have to rework it in time, likely on the water. The strands will flex an
break, the insulation will degrade and when few strands are left the current
will burn the rest out. That is if the solder joint isn't cold or cracks.

In the installation we are discussing, solder will strengthen the
mechanical bond.

Even with a production level mechanical crimper, it is almost
impossible to prevent vibration from loosening the connectors.

Soldering prevents that. The only truly effective battery connection
is a molded lead/tin casting onto the cable and gues what...

That's the same effect as soldering.

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:28:54 -0700, Tim wrote:

Tom, if 8 g. is too big, then go 10g. it's good for about 70a. on
12v . After all, the least it will do while cranking the 25 horse (if
having a hard to start spell). is slowly melt the insulation
off.. ?:

West Marine has some nice charts for sizing wire he

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...MarineWire.htm

Unfortunately the web site leaves off the color code for wire size but
it is on page 458 of the 2007 catalog. The smallest size (16 ga,
medium blue) is at the bottom, followed upwards by 14 guage (red), 12
guage (yellow), etc.

Since a 10% voltage drop is acceptable for a momentary load, let's use
the second chart and assume a 40 amp draw for the starter motor.
Following the 40 amp line to the right until we get to a round trip
length of 32 to 40 feet, shows that either 8 ga or 10 ga would be
acceptable. I'd probably make the conservative choice and select 8
guage.

On Sep 23, 5:10 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:47:32 GMT, "Canuck57"

wrote:
Never solder cable subject to vibration. Just don't do it. Or you will
have to rework it in time, likely on the water. The strands will flex an
break, the insulation will degrade and when few strands are left the current
will burn the rest out. That is if the solder joint isn't cold or cracks.

In the installation we are discussing, solder will strengthen the
mechanical bond.

Even with a production level mechanical crimper, it is almost
impossible to prevent vibration from loosening the connectors.

Soldering prevents that. The only truly effective battery connection
is a molded lead/tin casting onto the cable and gues what...

That's the same effect as soldering.

Oh, c'mon man.
Use a top post battery, get a propper fitting hose clamp, put around
the battery post, Bare off about 1 inch of insullation, slide the bare
wires down betweent he hose clamp and the battery post. tighten tight.

That way you can always monitor the corrosion.

Any job worth doing is worth doing right!

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:12:12 -0700, Tim wrote:

On Sep 23, 5:10 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:47:32 GMT, "Canuck57"

wrote:
Never solder cable subject to vibration. Just don't do it. Or you will
have to rework it in time, likely on the water. The strands will flex an
break, the insulation will degrade and when few strands are left the current
will burn the rest out. That is if the solder joint isn't cold or cracks.

In the installation we are discussing, solder will strengthen the
mechanical bond.

Even with a production level mechanical crimper, it is almost
impossible to prevent vibration from loosening the connectors.

Soldering prevents that. The only truly effective battery connection
is a molded lead/tin casting onto the cable and gues what...

That's the same effect as soldering.

Oh, c'mon man.
Use a top post battery, get a propper fitting hose clamp, put around
the battery post, Bare off about 1 inch of insullation, slide the bare
wires down betweent he hose clamp and the battery post. tighten tight.

That way you can always monitor the corrosion.

I know farmers who have the exact configuration on Super MTAs. :)

Any job worth doing is worth doing right!

Damn straight.