Happy *actual* Columbus Day.

Cristobol Colon (more commonly known as "Christopher Columbus") should
be acknowledged as a very adventurous navigator, but his greatest
personal
attribute was his hutzpa and salesmanship and the most significant
contribution he made to history was probably *not* "discovering
America."
(Columbus didn't discover anything in the strictest sense of the
term).

Europeans had been sailing to the eastern shores of North America for
several hundred years prior to 1492, and contrary to what folks of my
generation were taught in grade school it had long been established
that the world was spherical, rather than a flat plane with "edges"
some place. (Columbus shouldn't be credited with proving that the
world was round).

The primary challenge with developing or exploring the well documented
lands across the Atlantic to the west rested with the official
position of the Catholic church- which was the overriding European
social power during the 14 and 1500's. According to the church, even
speaking about undiscovered lands to the west was heresy- as nothing
of the sort was mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

Columbus knew that his fastest avenue to wealth and power lay in
having a voyage sanctioned by a government. Such an arrangement would
create a market for any valuable metals or raw materials he could
gather, would provide protection for his trading fleets, and would
assist him in defending any terriroty occupied in the new lands. To
avoid running afoul of the church, Columbus announced that he was
voyaging west to find a new route to "India", a ruse that his sponsors
supported and that Columbus maintained for the rest of his life. (The
Catholic "Inquisition" also began in 1492- it would have been almost
suicidal for Colubus to ever confess that he knew darn well
where he was going as soon as he set sail).

One of the conditions that Columbus negotiated before his voyage of
1492 was that he would be named "Admiral of the Western Seas." This
might seem insignificant to modern people less than entirely familiar
with the traditional naval "prize" system, but as Admiral Coumbus was
automatically entitled to a certain percentage of the value of any
ships captured, territories conquered, or resources approproated by
his fleet or any colonies he established. No dummy was Columbus.

Columbus is exalted as a national hero in the United States, but he
never set foot on any portion of what would later become US territory.
(possible exception of Puerto Rico- would need to check that detail).
Rather than "discovering America", Columbus' greatest historical
contributions may have involved transferring microbes between western
Europe and the "new world". Syphillis was unkown in Europe prior to
1492 and is thought to be a "gift" to Columbus' crew from indigenous
tribes who carried the disease but were more or less immune to it. The
enormous increase in European contacts that followed the four voyages
of Columbus infected the American natives with smallpox and other
illnesses that wiped out the vast majority of what had been enormous
and thriving populations- to the point where European settlers in the
1600's marveled at how sparsely populated was this new teritory with
such an abundance of resources.

Columbus can be hailed as an accomplished navigator and courageous
explorer, but in my opinion his less noble and more ambitious
motivations make him a much more human and far more interesting
character.

On Oct 12, 8:40 am, Chuck Gould wrote:
Happy *actual* Columbus Day.

Cristobol Colon (more commonly known as "Christopher Columbus") should
be acknowledged as a very adventurous navigator, but his greatest
personal
attribute was his hutzpa and salesmanship and the most significant
contribution he made to history was probably *not* "discovering
America."
(Columbus didn't discover anything in the strictest sense of the
term).

Europeans had been sailing to the eastern shores of North America for
several hundred years prior to 1492, and contrary to what folks of my
generation were taught in grade school it had long been established
that the world was spherical, rather than a flat plane with "edges"
some place. (Columbus shouldn't be credited with proving that the
world was round).

The primary challenge with developing or exploring the well documented
lands across the Atlantic to the west rested with the official
position of the Catholic church- which was the overriding European
social power during the 14 and 1500's. According to the church, even
speaking about undiscovered lands to the west was heresy- as nothing
of the sort was mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

Columbus knew that his fastest avenue to wealth and power lay in
having a voyage sanctioned by a government. Such an arrangement would
create a market for any valuable metals or raw materials he could
gather, would provide protection for his trading fleets, and would
assist him in defending any terriroty occupied in the new lands. To
avoid running afoul of the church, Columbus announced that he was
voyaging west to find a new route to "India", a ruse that his sponsors
supported and that Columbus maintained for the rest of his life. (The
Catholic "Inquisition" also began in 1492- it would have been almost
suicidal for Colubus to ever confess that he knew darn well
where he was going as soon as he set sail).

One of the conditions that Columbus negotiated before his voyage of
1492 was that he would be named "Admiral of the Western Seas." This
might seem insignificant to modern people less than entirely familiar
with the traditional naval "prize" system, but as Admiral Coumbus was
automatically entitled to a certain percentage of the value of any
ships captured, territories conquered, or resources approproated by
his fleet or any colonies he established. No dummy was Columbus.

Columbus is exalted as a national hero in the United States, but he
never set foot on any portion of what would later become US territory.
(possible exception of Puerto Rico- would need to check that detail).
Rather than "discovering America", Columbus' greatest historical
contributions may have involved transferring microbes between western
Europe and the "new world". Syphillis was unkown in Europe prior to
1492 and is thought to be a "gift" to Columbus' crew from indigenous
tribes who carried the disease but were more or less immune to it. The
enormous increase in European contacts that followed the four voyages
of Columbus infected the American natives with smallpox and other
illnesses that wiped out the vast majority of what had been enormous
and thriving populations- to the point where European settlers in the
1600's marveled at how sparsely populated was this new teritory with
such an abundance of resources.

Columbus can be hailed as an accomplished navigator and courageous
explorer, but in my opinion his less noble and more ambitious
motivations make him a much more human and far more interesting
character.

Oh Geeze.... I knew if I went directly to the bottom of the post I
would find the "but"... I was not dissappointed...

On Oct 12, 5:43?am, wrote:
On Oct 12, 8:40 am, Chuck Gould wrote:





Happy *actual* Columbus Day.

Cristobol Colon (more commonly known as "Christopher Columbus") should
be acknowledged as a very adventurous navigator, but his greatest
personal
attribute was his hutzpa and salesmanship and the most significant
contribution he made to history was probably *not* "discovering
America."
(Columbus didn't discover anything in the strictest sense of the
term).

Europeans had been sailing to the eastern shores of North America for
several hundred years prior to 1492, and contrary to what folks of my
generation were taught in grade school it had long been established
that the world was spherical, rather than a flat plane with "edges"
some place. (Columbus shouldn't be credited with proving that the
world was round).

The primary challenge with developing or exploring the well documented
lands across the Atlantic to the west rested with the official
position of the Catholic church- which was the overriding European
social power during the 14 and 1500's. According to the church, even
speaking about undiscovered lands to the west was heresy- as nothing
of the sort was mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

Columbus knew that his fastest avenue to wealth and power lay in
having a voyage sanctioned by a government. Such an arrangement would
create a market for any valuable metals or raw materials he could
gather, would provide protection for his trading fleets, and would
assist him in defending any terriroty occupied in the new lands. To
avoid running afoul of the church, Columbus announced that he was
voyaging west to find a new route to "India", a ruse that his sponsors
supported and that Columbus maintained for the rest of his life. (The
Catholic "Inquisition" also began in 1492- it would have been almost
suicidal for Colubus to ever confess that he knew darn well
where he was going as soon as he set sail).

One of the conditions that Columbus negotiated before his voyage of
1492 was that he would be named "Admiral of the Western Seas." This
might seem insignificant to modern people less than entirely familiar
with the traditional naval "prize" system, but as Admiral Coumbus was
automatically entitled to a certain percentage of the value of any
ships captured, territories conquered, or resources approproated by
his fleet or any colonies he established. No dummy was Columbus.

Columbus is exalted as a national hero in the United States, but he
never set foot on any portion of what would later become US territory.
(possible exception of Puerto Rico- would need to check that detail).
Rather than "discovering America", Columbus' greatest historical
contributions may have involved transferring microbes between western
Europe and the "new world". Syphillis was unkown in Europe prior to
1492 and is thought to be a "gift" to Columbus' crew from indigenous
tribes who carried the disease but were more or less immune to it. The
enormous increase in European contacts that followed the four voyages
of Columbus infected the American natives with smallpox and other
illnesses that wiped out the vast majority of what had been enormous
and thriving populations- to the point where European settlers in the
1600's marveled at how sparsely populated was this new teritory with
such an abundance of resources.

Columbus can be hailed as an accomplished navigator and courageous
explorer, but in my opinion his less noble and more ambitious
motivations make him a much more human and far more interesting
character.

Oh Geeze.... I knew if I went directly to the bottom of the post I
would find the "but"... I was not dissappointed...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The "but" of the joke is on you, Scotty.

Consider actually reading a post before reacting to a single word in a
single paragraph- as you just admitted doing.
(IOW don't be a "reactionary").

I admire Cristobol Colon immensely, and it is possible to do so even
when he is viewed through the lens of history rather than some bogus
mythology. Few people more cleverly manipulated the politics and
economics of their time for anticipated personal gain than did
Columbus. The man had a pair the size of "Offical NBA". :-)

On Oct 12, 8:53 am, Chuck Gould wrote:
On Oct 12, 5:43?am, wrote:





On Oct 12, 8:40 am, Chuck Gould wrote:

Happy *actual* Columbus Day.

Cristobol Colon (more commonly known as "Christopher Columbus") should
be acknowledged as a very adventurous navigator, but his greatest
personal
attribute was his hutzpa and salesmanship and the most significant
contribution he made to history was probably *not* "discovering
America."
(Columbus didn't discover anything in the strictest sense of the
term).

Europeans had been sailing to the eastern shores of North America for
several hundred years prior to 1492, and contrary to what folks of my
generation were taught in grade school it had long been established
that the world was spherical, rather than a flat plane with "edges"
some place. (Columbus shouldn't be credited with proving that the
world was round).

The primary challenge with developing or exploring the well documented
lands across the Atlantic to the west rested with the official
position of the Catholic church- which was the overriding European
social power during the 14 and 1500's. According to the church, even
speaking about undiscovered lands to the west was heresy- as nothing
of the sort was mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

Columbus knew that his fastest avenue to wealth and power lay in
having a voyage sanctioned by a government. Such an arrangement would
create a market for any valuable metals or raw materials he could
gather, would provide protection for his trading fleets, and would
assist him in defending any terriroty occupied in the new lands. To
avoid running afoul of the church, Columbus announced that he was
voyaging west to find a new route to "India", a ruse that his sponsors
supported and that Columbus maintained for the rest of his life. (The
Catholic "Inquisition" also began in 1492- it would have been almost
suicidal for Colubus to ever confess that he knew darn well
where he was going as soon as he set sail).

One of the conditions that Columbus negotiated before his voyage of
1492 was that he would be named "Admiral of the Western Seas." This
might seem insignificant to modern people less than entirely familiar
with the traditional naval "prize" system, but as Admiral Coumbus was
automatically entitled to a certain percentage of the value of any
ships captured, territories conquered, or resources approproated by
his fleet or any colonies he established. No dummy was Columbus.

Columbus is exalted as a national hero in the United States, but he
never set foot on any portion of what would later become US territory.
(possible exception of Puerto Rico- would need to check that detail).
Rather than "discovering America", Columbus' greatest historical
contributions may have involved transferring microbes between western
Europe and the "new world". Syphillis was unkown in Europe prior to
1492 and is thought to be a "gift" to Columbus' crew from indigenous
tribes who carried the disease but were more or less immune to it. The
enormous increase in European contacts that followed the four voyages
of Columbus infected the American natives with smallpox and other
illnesses that wiped out the vast majority of what had been enormous
and thriving populations- to the point where European settlers in the
1600's marveled at how sparsely populated was this new teritory with
such an abundance of resources.

Columbus can be hailed as an accomplished navigator and courageous
explorer, but in my opinion his less noble and more ambitious
motivations make him a much more human and far more interesting
character.

Oh Geeze.... I knew if I went directly to the bottom of the post I
would find the "but"... I was not dissappointed...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The "but" of the joke is on you, Scotty.

Consider actually reading a post before reacting to a single word in a
single paragraph- as you just admitted doing.
(IOW don't be a "reactionary").

I admire Cristobol Colon immensely, and it is possible to do so even
when he is viewed through the lens of history rather than some bogus
mythology. Few people more cleverly manipulated the politics and
economics of their time for anticipated personal gain than did
Columbus. The man had a pair the size of "Offical NBA". :-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK, I'll give it to you this time, just coming off the rediculous post
by harry about Global Goring... or wallet goring as it were...

wrote in message
oups.com...

Columbus can be hailed as an accomplished navigator and courageous
explorer, but in my opinion his less noble and more ambitious
motivations make him a much more human and far more interesting
character.

Oh Geeze.... I knew if I went directly to the bottom of the post I
would find the "but"... I was not dissappointed...


So what if Chuck admires CC's gumption instead of his landing place? It
doesn't change the fact that he didn't discover this country. Even my bank
has figured this out, and is now open on Columbus Day.

On Oct 12, 9:02 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Columbus can be hailed as an accomplished navigator and courageous
explorer, but in my opinion his less noble and more ambitious
motivations make him a much more human and far more interesting
character.

Oh Geeze.... I knew if I went directly to the bottom of the post I
would find the "but"... I was not dissappointed...

So what if Chuck admires CC's gumption instead of his landing place? It
doesn't change the fact that he didn't discover this country. Even my bank
has figured this out, and is now open on Columbus Day.

Yeah, that's why they decided to stay open snerk... Had nothing to
do with money!? That is why no one here really takes you seriously,
no one... it is your constant intellcetual dishonesty. You complain
about my opinions, but at least they are my own and I cross the isle
on many issues, not ones that are "allowed" here of course. You take a
politically based stand on every issue, reguardless of any evidence.
You are a liar Doug, that's why no one really listens to you here.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 12, 9:02 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Columbus can be hailed as an accomplished navigator and courageous
explorer, but in my opinion his less noble and more ambitious
motivations make him a much more human and far more interesting
character.

Oh Geeze.... I knew if I went directly to the bottom of the post I
would find the "but"... I was not dissappointed...

So what if Chuck admires CC's gumption instead of his landing place? It
doesn't change the fact that he didn't discover this country. Even my
bank
has figured this out, and is now open on Columbus Day.

Yeah, that's why they decided to stay open snerk... Had nothing to
do with money!?

Gee....ya think? :-)

On Oct 12, 10:05 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...





On Oct 12, 9:02 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

groups.com...

Columbus can be hailed as an accomplished navigator and courageous
explorer, but in my opinion his less noble and more ambitious
motivations make him a much more human and far more interesting
character.

Oh Geeze.... I knew if I went directly to the bottom of the post I
would find the "but"... I was not dissappointed...

So what if Chuck admires CC's gumption instead of his landing place? It
doesn't change the fact that he didn't discover this country. Even my
bank
has figured this out, and is now open on Columbus Day.

Yeah, that's why they decided to stay open snerk... Had nothing to
do with money!?

Gee....ya think? :-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So, it really had nohing to do with "figuring" anything out, you admit
you lie for ideological reasons. But we already knew that...

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 12, 10:05 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...





On Oct 12, 9:02 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

groups.com...

Columbus can be hailed as an accomplished navigator and courageous
explorer, but in my opinion his less noble and more ambitious
motivations make him a much more human and far more interesting
character.

Oh Geeze.... I knew if I went directly to the bottom of the post I
would find the "but"... I was not dissappointed...

So what if Chuck admires CC's gumption instead of his landing place?
It
doesn't change the fact that he didn't discover this country. Even my
bank
has figured this out, and is now open on Columbus Day.

Yeah, that's why they decided to stay open snerk... Had nothing to
do with money!?

Gee....ya think? :-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So, it really had nohing to do with "figuring" anything out, you admit
you lie for ideological reasons. But we already knew that...


The gradual realization that the holiday is a dud and that it means little
to employees - that had nothing at all to do with it. Sure.

On Oct 12, 7:12?am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...





On Oct 12, 10:05 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

groups.com...

On Oct 12, 9:02 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

groups.com...

Columbus can be hailed as an accomplished navigator and courageous
explorer, but in my opinion his less noble and more ambitious
motivations make him a much more human and far more interesting
character.

Oh Geeze.... I knew if I went directly to the bottom of the post I
would find the "but"... I was not dissappointed...

So what if Chuck admires CC's gumption instead of his landing place?
It
doesn't change the fact that he didn't discover this country. Even my
bank
has figured this out, and is now open on Columbus Day.

Yeah, that's why they decided to stay open snerk... Had nothing to
do with money!?

Gee....ya think? :-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So, it really had nohing to do with "figuring" anything out, you admit
you lie for ideological reasons. But we already knew that...

The gradual realization that the holiday is a dud and that it means little
to employees - that had nothing at all to do with it. Sure.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm surprised that your bank wasn't closed last Monday, Ocotober 8.
My wife is in the banking industry, and she got the day off. There are
some restrictions about when banks can be closed, and most of them
date back to the 1930's when banks would remain closed for days at a
time to avoid having to settle with depositors. (For example, banks
are always open the day after Thanksgiving, or on Xmas eve is it falls
on a Monday...you can't close a bank for more than three consecutive
days). I suppose there aren't similar restrictions about when banks
can be *open*, but out this way most if not all were closed on the 8th.