" JimH" ask wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 01:10:30 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 18:46:53 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote:

Let me tell you once again (for the 3rd time).........I could care less
if
VOIP dies. Until then, I will spend my $500 annually on more important
things than overpaying MaBell.

And i'll tell you again, for THE THIRD ****ING TIME, that isn't the
issue.

Jesus - how ****ing dense are you?

I apologise for my intemperate comments - I can't figure out how to
cancel them.

My sincerest apologies - seriously. :)

Hey Tom..........

.....you are not God.......you do not know everything....you are not the
Overlord of this NG and your word is not Gospel. You often (always?)
think otherwise.

You need to understand........you are allowed to make mistakes.....you are
allowed to be wrong. Others can question you and you should not have to
get upset about it.

Believe it or not.........you are a mere mortal Tom. Come back down to
earth and get off your high horse.

With that said...........yes, I accept your apology. ;-)


Actually he was intemperate, but correct. The Digital age is overwhelming
the infrastructure. Especially since they are proposing all the extra TV,
etc over the telephone circuits. The old phone systems allowed a lot of
calls, as the communication was voice and you had TDM so lots of calls over
the same line. An aside, girl I lusted after in junior high and early years
of HS, her father was one of the inventors to TDM. Now, you have to send
lots of packets over a 4400khz line. Phase detection methods allow you to
send more data than an actual 4400 khz line will normally allow. But the
backbone of the system is still the old copper wire and switches. You fail
to realize that the digital age is in its infancy time wise.

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 18:14:25 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:01:17 -0800, "Calif Bill"

wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Dec 6, 7:12 pm, BAR wrote:
JimH wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in
message
...
JimH wrote:

The actual phone service is not bad. It all depends on the
quality
of
your internet service. When speeds drop in my area (Time Warner
sucks)
then the voice quality degrades to unacceptable.

Vonage needs to improve tech support and stop routing these calls
through
India.
You are correct. I am also concerned that the infringement
lawsuit
might
be the death of them, so I am glad others are getting into the
VOIP
market
at competitive prices.

Indeed.

I could care less if Vonage goes under as there are plenty of other
options
available.

In the end I could do without any sort of home based phone service
and
it
may eventually get to the point with us relying only our cell
phones.

Bad move. Keep the land-line for emergencies. It only costs about $10
a
month.



Maybe we are just stuck in our old habits................after all,
how
does
the younger generation living on their own survive with *only* a
cell
phone?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What emergency would a land line handle that a cell phone won't?

When AC power is down. Landline phones run off large battery banks.
One
of
the reasons that you should have at least one, old fashioned non
wireless
phone in the house. If the power goes out, ou can not call for help of
service.


Use a cell phone!
--
John H

During some of the fires we have, the cellphone towers get isolated and no
cell. During the earthquakes the cell either goes out or gets overloaded.
And we have several seasons here in California. Mudslide, fire, riot,
earthquake.


Those same things could easily take out a land line.
--
John H

Lot less likely. Lots of things take out the AC. And the main feed line to
the VOIP goes, or a feeder circuit to the cable line goes and you are dead.

On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 19:36:33 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 01:21:01 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:


OTOH, my Comcast phone was dead, dead, dead.

Heh - proves the point eh what?

Sure does, and I've said I wish I had copper wire, which never
failed all the years I had it. But I live with what I have now, and
the cell proved reliable for the instance I mentioned.
I agree about digital complexity leading to many failure points,
but don't think we'll go back. Just the way the marketplace works.

You know, this reminds me of something else. Bringing frogs to a boil
and pastries. You know about how the frog doesn't know he's dead
until it's too late. Well, concerning pastries, most young people
don't even know what a good sweet roll is. I'm talking Danish,
eclairs, custard and jelly rolls, flaky dough, etc.
Most of these delights involve a couple days preparation, and a
craftsman-like baker.
Into young adulthood, there were German and Swedish bakeries every
quarter mile in Chicago.
I'm not sure of what caused their disappearance, but cheap Dunkin'
Donuts and other chains played a part. It's really a chore finding a
bakery now that can come close to what was common years ago.
Sorry for the digression, but my mouth was watering and I just had to
say it.

--Vic

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:39:19 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/mar04/3811

I understand the issue - I disagree with the conclusion.


I'm telling you - the whole move to digital is going to lead to a
diaster and a big one.



Just think. Your words may forever be considered with a chuckle by future
generations of Google archive viewers, just as Teddy Roosevelt's reluctance
to accept or rely upon the horseless carriage as a replacement for horse
drawn modes of transportation. In 1902 he would ride in a horseless
carriage, but insisted that it be followed by a conventional horse drawn
carriage in case of a breakdown or failure of the new fangled contraption.

-------------------------

The Horseless Carriage
This is very interesting.
A horseless carriage.
What a mysterious thing.

There's a handle in front
That you crank a bit
To wake the contraption up.

There are control things inside
That cause her to start.
Would you care for a ride?

Go ahead. Climb right in.
Crank. Rumble.
We'll give it a spin.

Here we go--a little correction
Of that wheel thing there
Should change our direction.

Well, isn't this fun?
A horseless carriage.
What makes it run?

We're coming to the edge of the lawn.
That's far enough--
Here comes the pond!

Whoa! Oh, no!
What makes it stop?
I said WHOA!

Splash.

(author unknown)

-----------------------------

Eisboch

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...



Actually he was intemperate, but correct. The Digital age is overwhelming
the infrastructure. Especially since they are proposing all the extra TV,
etc over the telephone circuits. The old phone systems allowed a lot of
calls, as the communication was voice and you had TDM so lots of calls
over the same line. An aside, girl I lusted after in junior high and
early years of HS, her father was one of the inventors to TDM. Now, you
have to send lots of packets over a 4400khz line. Phase detection methods
allow you to send more data than an actual 4400 khz line will normally
allow. But the backbone of the system is still the old copper wire and
switches. You fail to realize that the digital age is in its infancy time
wise.



Exactly right ... it is in it's infancy and the transition will take time.
Trying to utilize an infrastructure designed for simpler, but limited analog
communications is what is overwhelming the system. Copper wires will slowly
be replaced with glass and plastic fiberoptics that will be more reliable,
quieter and have an expodential increase in bandwidth capacity. We are
witnessing the dawn of the digital/optical communications age.

Eisboch

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 23:20:42 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:



I'm telling you - the whole move to digital is going to lead to a
diaster and a big one.

I won't disagree. Everything's gone to hell since Morse was dropped.
Well, something like that.
And forget about EMP and solar activity.
Me? Wife got me one of those flashlights that you shake to power it.
So I'll be okay. But what about the children?

--Vic


Don't forget. Morse was digital. And it was more reliable and usable in
bad atmospheric conditions.

Eisboch

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 18:45:19 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 18:14:25 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:01:17 -0800, "Calif Bill"

wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Dec 6, 7:12 pm, BAR wrote:
JimH wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in
message
...
JimH wrote:

The actual phone service is not bad. It all depends on the
quality
of
your internet service. When speeds drop in my area (Time Warner
sucks)
then the voice quality degrades to unacceptable.

Vonage needs to improve tech support and stop routing these calls
through
India.
You are correct. I am also concerned that the infringement
lawsuit
might
be the death of them, so I am glad others are getting into the
VOIP
market
at competitive prices.

Indeed.

I could care less if Vonage goes under as there are plenty of other
options
available.

In the end I could do without any sort of home based phone service
and
it
may eventually get to the point with us relying only our cell
phones.

Bad move. Keep the land-line for emergencies. It only costs about $10
a
month.



Maybe we are just stuck in our old habits................after all,
how
does
the younger generation living on their own survive with *only* a
cell
phone?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What emergency would a land line handle that a cell phone won't?

When AC power is down. Landline phones run off large battery banks.
One
of
the reasons that you should have at least one, old fashioned non
wireless
phone in the house. If the power goes out, ou can not call for help of
service.


Use a cell phone!
--
John H

During some of the fires we have, the cellphone towers get isolated and no
cell. During the earthquakes the cell either goes out or gets overloaded.
And we have several seasons here in California. Mudslide, fire, riot,
earthquake.


Those same things could easily take out a land line.
--
John H

Lot less likely. Lots of things take out the AC. And the main feed line to
the VOIP goes, or a feeder circuit to the cable line goes and you are dead.


If everything in the world crashes, but does not take out the telephone
land line, then you are correct. That amounts to about $60/month insurance
(by paying Ma Bell) against that kind of catastrophe. That's too high.
--
John H

wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 20:11:34 -0500, Charlie wrote:


wrote:

On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 19:29:42 -0500, Charlie wrote:



wrote:



Hasn't anyone ever told you that you can't prove anything with that small of a
sample?

How big a sample do you want?

On 9/11, the cell phones were about the only thing working in lower
Manhattan.

-- Charlie


Excellent non-sequitar, Chaz!



Ya can't teach an idiot.

-- Charlie


Well, I tried.

I know...It shows.

-- Charlie

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 02:06:51 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 23:20:42 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:



I'm telling you - the whole move to digital is going to lead to a
diaster and a big one.

I won't disagree. Everything's gone to hell since Morse was dropped.
Well, something like that.
And forget about EMP and solar activity.
Me? Wife got me one of those flashlights that you shake to power it.
So I'll be okay. But what about the children?

--Vic


Don't forget. Morse was digital. And it was more reliable and usable in
bad atmospheric conditions.

Eisboch

Reading the VOIP thread where poles versus buried lines are mentioned
reminded me that I *did* once lose my copper wire phone.
Squirrel chewed through the insulation. Every time after that when I
saw that squirrel running across the line I wondered if he'd cause me
another outage.
But...I didn't have to worry about Injuns or the James' or Youngers
cutting the wires, so considered myself fortunate.

--Vic

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 18:45:19 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 18:14:25 -0800, "Calif Bill"

wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:01:17 -0800, "Calif Bill"

wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Dec 6, 7:12 pm, BAR wrote:
JimH wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in
message
...
JimH wrote:

The actual phone service is not bad. It all depends on the
quality
of
your internet service. When speeds drop in my area (Time
Warner
sucks)
then the voice quality degrades to unacceptable.

Vonage needs to improve tech support and stop routing these
calls
through
India.
You are correct. I am also concerned that the infringement
lawsuit
might
be the death of them, so I am glad others are getting into the
VOIP
market
at competitive prices.

Indeed.

I could care less if Vonage goes under as there are plenty of
other
options
available.

In the end I could do without any sort of home based phone
service
and
it
may eventually get to the point with us relying only our cell
phones.

Bad move. Keep the land-line for emergencies. It only costs about
$10
a
month.



Maybe we are just stuck in our old habits................after
all,
how
does
the younger generation living on their own survive with *only* a
cell
phone?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What emergency would a land line handle that a cell phone won't?

When AC power is down. Landline phones run off large battery banks.
One
of
the reasons that you should have at least one, old fashioned non
wireless
phone in the house. If the power goes out, ou can not call for help
of
service.


Use a cell phone!
--
John H

During some of the fires we have, the cellphone towers get isolated and
no
cell. During the earthquakes the cell either goes out or gets
overloaded.
And we have several seasons here in California. Mudslide, fire, riot,
earthquake.


Those same things could easily take out a land line.
--
John H

Lot less likely. Lots of things take out the AC. And the main feed line
to
the VOIP goes, or a feeder circuit to the cable line goes and you are
dead.


If everything in the world crashes, but does not take out the telephone
land line, then you are correct. That amounts to about $60/month insurance
(by paying Ma Bell) against that kind of catastrophe. That's too high.
--
John H

My phone runs about $20 a month. Earthlink will supply me unlimited
calling, and DSL for $50 a month. $60 for a wired line seems very high.