On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:47:10 -0500, BAR wrote:


Do any of you remember the nation wide telephone problem that occured on
e day in '89? I don't know the specifics of the problem but a bug in SS7
caused all of the major switches across the country on AT&T's network
started shutting down and would not restart. Took a software change to
fix the problem. I believe that the outage lasted about 10 or 12 hours.

I mentioned it earlier in the thread.

The site outage took 12 hours - the results in resetting the system
took 28 hours in total to get everything back on line.

Another cascade failure. $5 relay part and havoc ruled the day.

On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 11:41:05 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 14:33:43 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:


Well, we will probably continue to agree to disagree. :)

I don't think we really disagree, more like we view the consequences
of some breakdowns differently.
I think we can agree the shuttle disasters occurred because "simple"
systems failed. Frankly, for all the admiration I have for the teams
that put the shuttles together, the management side let them and
astronauts down. You may feel differently, but I view both failures
as preventable and unnecessary. The o-ring problem was known,
and so was the ice hitting tiles. They took chances they didn't have
to take. Given the tremendous achievements of the shuttle program
it's difficult to come down on them hard, but that's my opinion.

It's true, but you have to consider humans as a part of the system -
it's not only just the part, but the decisions that lead up to how
that part was utilized.

In both shuttle cases, humans made the decision based on the best
evidence available at the time.

But since I'm here, and you know more this than me, how the hell did
the Great Depression occur, and could it happen again?

Of course it could.

Five conditions are commonly considered necessary for a market crash -
prolonged period of rising stock prices, irrational exuberance, P/E
ratios exceed long-term averages, and extensive use of margin debt and
leverage by market participants. There are other psychological and
monetary conditions, but those are the biggies.

In 1929 you have all five conditions plus economic features like
communications technology (radio/telephone), increasing use of
automobiles, begining of civil aviation, telephone and the power grid
development. Monetary power was held by several corporations and two
or three brokerage houses. Minor houses became involved in heavy
margin activity.

Deep recessions always occur with leading edge indicators. In the
summer of 1929, it was a contracting economy (took much production,
too much money), decreasing confidence in the financial system and
loss of confidence due to a series of financial scandals.

Sound familiar? :)

My real "economic" concern is that we don't produce our own goods, and
China has us by the balls.

So does any number of countries and for a variety of reasons.

Look into it sometime and see what havoc the sub-prime market is
having on smaller Eurpoean countries.

It's scary.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Look into it sometime and see what havoc the sub-prime market is
having on smaller Eurpoean countries.

It's scary.


You just made an extremely good point, Tom.

The current housing/credit crisis is not a USA specific issue or problem.
It's world-wide.
The media and spin artists give the impression that it's unique to the
continued downfall of the USA.

Eisboch

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:41:26 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .


Look into it sometime and see what havoc the sub-prime market is
having on smaller Eurpoean countries.

It's scary.

You just made an extremely good point, Tom.

The current housing/credit crisis is not a USA specific issue or problem.
It's world-wide.

I just read an article about a small town in Norway that is into CDOs
structured on sub-prime debt and they don't have enough money to fund
their social retirement system and local government.

The Dutch, who have a 63% income tax, are also having some
dislocations due to CDOs. The viability of their social system is
comeing under severe pressure.

The media and spin artists give the impression that it's unique to the
continued downfall of the USA.

I agree.

On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:04:30 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:41:26 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..


Look into it sometime and see what havoc the sub-prime market is
having on smaller Eurpoean countries.

It's scary.

You just made an extremely good point, Tom.

The current housing/credit crisis is not a USA specific issue or problem.
It's world-wide.

I just read an article about a small town in Norway that is into CDOs
structured on sub-prime debt and they don't have enough money to fund
their social retirement system and local government.

The Dutch, who have a 63% income tax, are also having some
dislocations due to CDOs. The viability of their social system is
comeing under severe pressure.

The media and spin artists give the impression that it's unique to the
continued downfall of the USA.

I agree.

The Dutch are beginning to see the light regarding their social welfare
system. The problem is that many of the voters are the ones receiving the
welfare. Guess who they continue to vote for. They invited their
immigration problem, and it's burying them.

Nothing like that could ever happen in this country, of course.
--
John H

John H. wrote:
On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:04:30 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:41:26 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

Look into it sometime and see what havoc the sub-prime market is
having on smaller Eurpoean countries.

It's scary.
You just made an extremely good point, Tom.

The current housing/credit crisis is not a USA specific issue or problem.
It's world-wide.
I just read an article about a small town in Norway that is into CDOs
structured on sub-prime debt and they don't have enough money to fund
their social retirement system and local government.

The Dutch, who have a 63% income tax, are also having some
dislocations due to CDOs. The viability of their social system is
comeing under severe pressure.

The media and spin artists give the impression that it's unique to the
continued downfall of the USA.
I agree.

The Dutch are beginning to see the light regarding their social welfare
system. The problem is that many of the voters are the ones receiving the
welfare. Guess who they continue to vote for. They invited their
immigration problem, and it's burying them.

Nothing like that could ever happen in this country, of course.

This country has been sliding into hell since 1980, and will continue
its journey until it gets there.

HK wrote:
John H. wrote:
On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:04:30 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:41:26 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

Look into it sometime and see what havoc the sub-prime market is
having on smaller Eurpoean countries.

It's scary.
You just made an extremely good point, Tom.

The current housing/credit crisis is not a USA specific issue or
problem. It's world-wide.
I just read an article about a small town in Norway that is into CDOs
structured on sub-prime debt and they don't have enough money to fund
their social retirement system and local government.

The Dutch, who have a 63% income tax, are also having some
dislocations due to CDOs. The viability of their social system is
comeing under severe pressure.

The media and spin artists give the impression that it's unique to
the continued downfall of the USA.
I agree.

The Dutch are beginning to see the light regarding their social welfare
system. The problem is that many of the voters are the ones receiving the
welfare. Guess who they continue to vote for. They invited their
immigration problem, and it's burying them.

Nothing like that could ever happen in this country, of course.

This country has been sliding into hell since 1980, and will continue
its journey until it gets there.

Thanks for sharing. All I have to say is it's not over till it's over.

How about this one. When you get to the fork in the road, ... take it.

HK wrote:

This country has been sliding into hell since 1980, and will continue
its journey until it gets there.

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

-- Charlie

On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:29:07 -0500, HK wrote:

This country has been sliding into hell since 1980, and will continue
its journey until it gets there.

Help me out. What happened in 1980?

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:29:07 -0500, HK wrote:

This country has been sliding into hell since 1980, and will continue
its journey until it gets there.

Help me out. What happened in 1980?



Your 49' RV sank at the dock, but was hoisted out and fixed up.