All,
Many of you have been directing me on some outboard title issues I
have been handling with some of my dads previous possessions. Recently
I have had some movement and progress and I have gotten one of the
motors already titled in my name as well as one that I think I can
settle after speaking to the chief ODNR Watercraft personel in our
area.

This next one I am a little unsure on how to proceed;

About 11 yrs ago, I purchased a boat (Lonestar 14ft) for my dad from a
neighbor. The neighbor still lives across the street. Anyways the
neighbor originally 11yrs ago gave me a registration tag from Michigan
where he had the boat registered. I guess he has a cabin up in
Michigan. Anyways during these past 11 yrs my dad nor I have tried to
title this boat in our names as it never saw water. It has been
sitting in the side lot of our yard all this time under a boat tarp/
canvas. As I am now cleaning things, I have cleaned out and garaged
this little boat. I also began to try and title everything that is
watercraft and I came to this title/registration for this boat. The
local title bureau refused to title the boat as I had only the
registration and they mainly complained about the age of the
certificate from Michigan that was given to us by the previous owner
11 yrs ago. Anyways I had the neighbor go to Michigan and get me a
newer title and asked him to sign it off.

I come home today, after attending my Ohio boating operating course,
which by the way I passed , my wife said the neighbor stopped by
and dropped off some of the title stuff. I look at the title
information and its a bill of sale from the Michigan Secretary of
State. It was not notarized or signed by anybody other then the
previous owner of the boat. My question is does this seem reasonable?
My wife said he said they do\did not issue titles for the size/age of
that boat and they gave him this paper.

Here is a link I found mentioning Michigan laws;
http://www.dmv.org/mi-michigan/boat-registration.php

Doesn't something have to be notarized?

This just seems odd to me, after all the stuff I have been through on
the outboards that a simple Bll of Sale is going to accomplish a title
for me in Ohio of this boat.

Anybody have any input?

Anybody been through this before?

Is there a way to tell year based on HIN or some other way on this
Lonestar. It does not say anything about year of make/model.

Again thanks for the help,
Chris

If you were going to register it in Michigan, you'd be all set according to
the "Buying and Selling" paragraph of the page you linked.
If you want to register it in Ohio
http://www.dmv.org/oh-ohio/boat-registration.php says you can create an
Affidavit of Ownership for registration. As for title, if it wasn't titled
you don't have a previous title to present, so you would be creating an
initial title in Ohio. And, it appears that there is no way to find out if
it was previously titled.


"Solomon_Man" wrote in message
...
All,
Many of you have been directing me on some outboard title issues I
have been handling with some of my dads previous possessions. Recently
I have had some movement and progress and I have gotten one of the
motors already titled in my name as well as one that I think I can
settle after speaking to the chief ODNR Watercraft personel in our
area.

This next one I am a little unsure on how to proceed;

About 11 yrs ago, I purchased a boat (Lonestar 14ft) for my dad from a
neighbor. The neighbor still lives across the street. Anyways the
neighbor originally 11yrs ago gave me a registration tag from Michigan
where he had the boat registered. I guess he has a cabin up in
Michigan. Anyways during these past 11 yrs my dad nor I have tried to
title this boat in our names as it never saw water. It has been
sitting in the side lot of our yard all this time under a boat tarp/
canvas. As I am now cleaning things, I have cleaned out and garaged
this little boat. I also began to try and title everything that is
watercraft and I came to this title/registration for this boat. The
local title bureau refused to title the boat as I had only the
registration and they mainly complained about the age of the
certificate from Michigan that was given to us by the previous owner
11 yrs ago. Anyways I had the neighbor go to Michigan and get me a
newer title and asked him to sign it off.

I come home today, after attending my Ohio boating operating course,
which by the way I passed , my wife said the neighbor stopped by
and dropped off some of the title stuff. I look at the title
information and its a bill of sale from the Michigan Secretary of
State. It was not notarized or signed by anybody other then the
previous owner of the boat. My question is does this seem reasonable?
My wife said he said they do\did not issue titles for the size/age of
that boat and they gave him this paper.

Here is a link I found mentioning Michigan laws;
http://www.dmv.org/mi-michigan/boat-registration.php

Doesn't something have to be notarized?

This just seems odd to me, after all the stuff I have been through on
the outboards that a simple Bll of Sale is going to accomplish a title
for me in Ohio of this boat.

Anybody have any input?

Anybody been through this before?

Is there a way to tell year based on HIN or some other way on this
Lonestar. It does not say anything about year of make/model.

Again thanks for the help,
Chris

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:24:46 -0800 (PST), Solomon_Man
wrote:


Here is a link I found mentioning Michigan laws;

http://www.dmv.org/mi-michigan/boat-registration.php

Doesn't something have to be notarized?

No.

Anybody been through this before?

Yes. From the Michigan site.

"No registration? Then create a bill of sale with the year, make, hull
ID number, and registration number (if you have it)."

Is there a way to tell year based on HIN or some other way on this
Lonestar. It does not say anything about year of make/model.

The last two numbers of the HIN are the year.

On Dec 9, 6:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:24:46 -0800 (PST), Solomon_Man

wrote:
Here is a link I found mentioning Michigan laws;
http://www.dmv.org/mi-michigan/boat-registration.php

Doesn't something have to be notarized?

No.

Anybody been through this before?

Yes. From the Michigan site.

"No registration? Then create a bill of sale with the year, make, hull
ID number, and registration number (if you have it)."

Is there a way to tell year based on HIN or some other way on this
Lonestar. It does not say anything about year of make/model.

The last two numbers of the HIN are the year.

Thanks Everyone,
Wow that should be easy. I will try and title it some time next week.
The only thing that I am not sure of is according to the state of Ohio
all boats need a 12 digit hull number. Something about after 1972 all
boats should have 12 digits not 9. I learned this in my Boaters class.
The paper work from Michigan only lists out 8 digits on the
registration. I ran outside to the garage and there is no fiberglass
number inscribe in the Stern like I was taught. There is only an
attached fully readable plate that says Lonestar CareFreedom and a
serial number. Its a manufacturers plate. There is also a emblem on
the side that says Lonestar. The serials match the numbers on the bill
of sale and registration I have that were my neigbors from 1991-1994
era. I hope this HIN number shortage will not be a whole alot of
problem. I am just curious can anyone tell what era this boat is
from? The last two digits are 94 for serial number.

Thanks,
Chris

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 06:05:42 -0800 (PST), Solomon_Man
wrote:

On Dec 9, 6:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:24:46 -0800 (PST), Solomon_Man

wrote:
Here is a link I found mentioning Michigan laws;
http://www.dmv.org/mi-michigan/boat-registration.php

Doesn't something have to be notarized?

No.

Anybody been through this before?

Yes. From the Michigan site.

"No registration? Then create a bill of sale with the year, make, hull
ID number, and registration number (if you have it)."

Is there a way to tell year based on HIN or some other way on this
Lonestar. It does not say anything about year of make/model.

The last two numbers of the HIN are the year.

Thanks Everyone,
Wow that should be easy. I will try and title it some time next week.
The only thing that I am not sure of is according to the state of Ohio
all boats need a 12 digit hull number. Something about after 1972 all
boats should have 12 digits not 9. I learned this in my Boaters class.
The paper work from Michigan only lists out 8 digits on the
registration. I ran outside to the garage and there is no fiberglass
number inscribe in the Stern like I was taught. There is only an
attached fully readable plate that says Lonestar CareFreedom and a
serial number. Its a manufacturers plate. There is also a emblem on
the side that says Lonestar. The serials match the numbers on the bill
of sale and registration I have that were my neigbors from 1991-1994
era. I hope this HIN number shortage will not be a whole alot of
problem. I am just curious can anyone tell what era this boat is
from? The last two digits are 94 for serial number.

In this case, you have a boat older than '72.

Which will probably require that you obtain an HIN from your DMV. I
had a similar problem with a '68 Glastron I inherited when I bought
the contents of a barn at auction - found the boat under the barn next
to the truck that I was interested in.

In my case, the boat was never registered in the state - no
registration numbers. Once I established that I had legally purchased
the contents of the barn, which wasn't hard at all by the way - just
presented the bill of sale for the contents of the barn - they
assigned the hull, based on the manufacturer's serial number, an HIN.

From there, it was just a question of making a plate and fixing it to
the stern and in one place on the boat that only I knew the location
of. I'm fairly sure, Michigan has the same procedure, but I'm not
sure about that - most states follow the same procedure.

The real question is this - is the boat worth the effort? A boat that
old may be iffy in terms of sea worthy.

On Dec 9, 2:39 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 06:05:42 -0800 (PST), Solomon_Man





wrote:
On Dec 9, 6:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:24:46 -0800 (PST), Solomon_Man

wrote:
Here is a link I found mentioning Michigan laws;
http://www.dmv.org/mi-michigan/boat-registration.php

Doesn't something have to be notarized?

No.

Anybody been through this before?

Yes. From the Michigan site.

"No registration? Then create a bill of sale with the year, make, hull
ID number, and registration number (if you have it)."

Is there a way to tell year based on HIN or some other way on this
Lonestar. It does not say anything about year of make/model.

The last two numbers of the HIN are the year.

Thanks Everyone,
Wow that should be easy. I will try and title it some time next week.
The only thing that I am not sure of is according to the state of Ohio
all boats need a 12 digit hull number. Something about after 1972 all
boats should have 12 digits not 9. I learned this in my Boaters class.
The paper work from Michigan only lists out 8 digits on the
registration. I ran outside to the garage and there is no fiberglass
number inscribe in the Stern like I was taught. There is only an
attached fully readable plate that says Lonestar CareFreedom and a
serial number. Its a manufacturers plate. There is also a emblem on
the side that says Lonestar. The serials match the numbers on the bill
of sale and registration I have that were my neigbors from 1991-1994
era. I hope this HIN number shortage will not be a whole alot of
problem. I am just curious can anyone tell what era this boat is
from? The last two digits are 94 for serial number.

In this case, you have a boat older than '72.

Which will probably require that you obtain an HIN from your DMV. I
had a similar problem with a '68 Glastron I inherited when I bought
the contents of a barn at auction - found the boat under the barn next
to the truck that I was interested in.

In my case, the boat was never registered in the state - no
registration numbers. Once I established that I had legally purchased
the contents of the barn, which wasn't hard at all by the way - just
presented the bill of sale for the contents of the barn - they
assigned the hull, based on the manufacturer's serial number, an HIN.

From there, it was just a question of making a plate and fixing it to
the stern and in one place on the boat that only I knew the location
of. I'm fairly sure, Michigan has the same procedure, but I'm not
sure about that - most states follow the same procedure.

The real question is this - is the boat worth the effort? A boat that
old may be iffy in terms of sea worthy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Dec 9, 2:39 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 06:05:42 -0800 (PST), Solomon_Man





wrote:
On Dec 9, 6:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:24:46 -0800 (PST), Solomon_Man

wrote:
Here is a link I found mentioning Michigan laws;
http://www.dmv.org/mi-michigan/boat-registration.php

Doesn't something have to be notarized?

No.

Anybody been through this before?

Yes. From the Michigan site.

"No registration? Then create a bill of sale with the year, make, hull
ID number, and registration number (if you have it)."

Is there a way to tell year based on HIN or some other way on this
Lonestar. It does not say anything about year of make/model.

The last two numbers of the HIN are the year.

Thanks Everyone,
Wow that should be easy. I will try and title it some time next week.
The only thing that I am not sure of is according to the state of Ohio
all boats need a 12 digit hull number. Something about after 1972 all
boats should have 12 digits not 9. I learned this in my Boaters class.
The paper work from Michigan only lists out 8 digits on the
registration. I ran outside to the garage and there is no fiberglass
number inscribe in the Stern like I was taught. There is only an
attached fully readable plate that says Lonestar CareFreedom and a
serial number. Its a manufacturers plate. There is also a emblem on
the side that says Lonestar. The serials match the numbers on the bill
of sale and registration I have that were my neigbors from 1991-1994
era. I hope this HIN number shortage will not be a whole alot of
problem. I am just curious can anyone tell what era this boat is
from? The last two digits are 94 for serial number.

In this case, you have a boat older than '72.

Which will probably require that you obtain an HIN from your DMV. I
had a similar problem with a '68 Glastron I inherited when I bought
the contents of a barn at auction - found the boat under the barn next
to the truck that I was interested in.

In my case, the boat was never registered in the state - no
registration numbers. Once I established that I had legally purchased
the contents of the barn, which wasn't hard at all by the way - just
presented the bill of sale for the contents of the barn - they
assigned the hull, based on the manufacturer's serial number, an HIN.

From there, it was just a question of making a plate and fixing it to
the stern and in one place on the boat that only I knew the location
of. I'm fairly sure, Michigan has the same procedure, but I'm not
sure about that - most states follow the same procedure.

The real question is this - is the boat worth the effort? A boat that
old may be iffy in terms of sea worthy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I called Michigan and Ohio State agencies today and both said I had
the issue with the 12 hull numbers which is no surprise.

Ohio was like it needs to be inspected so I can have it remeasured as
a lot of 14 ft boats were actually 13 foot nine etc. I was like ok,
but in reality they want to do a theft inspection and run the HIN (no
problem! If someone reported it stolen I would gladly give it back),
but they also said that the Michigan registration should have a spot
for my neighbor to sign off the registration on the back. I looked at
the back and no where is there a spot for anybody to sign off. I have
the bill of sale with his signature. So I am somewhat confused so I
called Michigan to see what they have to say about just letting me
register it up in Michigan, as I live basically on the boarder of
Michigan Ohio and can easily drag the boat to either state. Also
registering it in my name it also releaves my neighbor having to waste
any more of his time if I force the issue in Ohio as it will be in my
name from Michigan. Michigan said the exact same thing that it should
have a spot on the back of the registration. It does not. The
registration looks legit the sticker is on the boat. So I am now just
basically getting a screw around effect. The lady in Michigan said
they just add 0000 to the beginning of current HIN. So I am like that
may be easier then a whole inspection as it currently sits in my
garage with no strap to hold it to the trailer, the trailer is missing
one rubber trailer roller, and I would not even want to figure out the
lights as I plan to just replace the system. I also have to figure out
how to get it to the inspection site as my van currently has a 2 inch
ball and the boat is of course 1 7/8. These were things I wanted to
work out over the winter, once I know I have a boat that I could throw
in the water.

So is the boat really worth my time....well it seems to be in decent
shape the keel is clean no major dings etc. The transom looks solid it
could use a little interior paint on the transom as a few pieces look
like they are faded and paint is starting to peel hear and there on
the interior transom. The electrical and controls seem almost mint. It
could use a update in carpet which is no big deal as my dad before he
died owned a flooring shop (30+ yrs) and I learned the trade all the
way up since I was 5 and I paid my way through college with the
trade. The motor is one that runs and is titled. The boat is in
decent shape for its age, I can not legally get rid of it and my
neighbor was the previous owner, so I can't just dispose of it
somewhere. As sooner or later it would come back to me. So I guess I
am in a rock and a hard spot as far as time and worth

I am getting used to the state title stuff.

Thanks for everyones time.
Chris

On Dec 10, 5:13 pm, Solomon_Man wrote:
On Dec 9, 2:39 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:





On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 06:05:42 -0800 (PST), Solomon_Man

wrote:
On Dec 9, 6:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:24:46 -0800 (PST), Solomon_Man

wrote:
Here is a link I found mentioning Michigan laws;
http://www.dmv.org/mi-michigan/boat-registration.php

Doesn't something have to be notarized?

No.

Anybody been through this before?

Yes. From the Michigan site.

"No registration? Then create a bill of sale with the year, make, hull
ID number, and registration number (if you have it)."

Is there a way to tell year based on HIN or some other way on this
Lonestar. It does not say anything about year of make/model.

The last two numbers of the HIN are the year.

Thanks Everyone,
Wow that should be easy. I will try and title it some time next week.
The only thing that I am not sure of is according to the state of Ohio
all boats need a 12 digit hull number. Something about after 1972 all
boats should have 12 digits not 9. I learned this in my Boaters class.
The paper work from Michigan only lists out 8 digits on the
registration. I ran outside to the garage and there is no fiberglass
number inscribe in the Stern like I was taught. There is only an
attached fully readable plate that says Lonestar CareFreedom and a
serial number. Its a manufacturers plate. There is also a emblem on
the side that says Lonestar. The serials match the numbers on the bill
of sale and registration I have that were my neigbors from 1991-1994
era. I hope this HIN number shortage will not be a whole alot of
problem. I am just curious can anyone tell what era this boat is
from? The last two digits are 94 for serial number.

In this case, you have a boat older than '72.

Which will probably require that you obtain an HIN from your DMV. I
had a similar problem with a '68 Glastron I inherited when I bought
the contents of a barn at auction - found the boat under the barn next
to the truck that I was interested in.

In my case, the boat was never registered in the state - no
registration numbers. Once I established that I had legally purchased
the contents of the barn, which wasn't hard at all by the way - just
presented the bill of sale for the contents of the barn - they
assigned the hull, based on the manufacturer's serial number, an HIN.

From there, it was just a question of making a plate and fixing it to
the stern and in one place on the boat that only I knew the location
of. I'm fairly sure, Michigan has the same procedure, but I'm not
sure about that - most states follow the same procedure.

The real question is this - is the boat worth the effort? A boat that
old may be iffy in terms of sea worthy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Dec 9, 2:39 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:





On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 06:05:42 -0800 (PST), Solomon_Man

wrote:
On Dec 9, 6:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:24:46 -0800 (PST), Solomon_Man

wrote:
Here is a link I found mentioning Michigan laws;
http://www.dmv.org/mi-michigan/boat-registration.php

Doesn't something have to be notarized?

No.

Anybody been through this before?

Yes. From the Michigan site.

"No registration? Then create a bill of sale with the year, make, hull
ID number, and registration number (if you have it)."

Is there a way to tell year based on HIN or some other way on this
Lonestar. It does not say anything about year of make/model.

The last two numbers of the HIN are the year.

Thanks Everyone,
Wow that should be easy. I will try and title it some time next week.
The only thing that I am not sure of is according to the state of Ohio
all boats need a 12 digit hull number. Something about after 1972 all
boats should have 12 digits not 9. I learned this in my Boaters class.
The paper work from Michigan only lists out 8 digits on the
registration. I ran outside to the garage and there is no fiberglass
number inscribe in the Stern like I was taught. There is only an
attached fully readable plate that says Lonestar CareFreedom and a
serial number. Its a manufacturers plate. There is also a emblem on
the side that says Lonestar. The serials match the numbers on the bill
of sale and registration I have that were my neigbors from 1991-1994
era. I hope this HIN number shortage will not be a whole alot of
problem. I am just curious can anyone tell what era this boat is
from? The last two digits are 94 for serial number.

In this case, you have a boat older than '72.

Which will probably require that you obtain an HIN from your DMV. I
had a similar problem with a '68 Glastron I inherited when I bought
the contents of a barn at auction - found the boat under the barn next
to the truck that I was interested in.

In my case, the boat was never registered in the state - no
registration numbers. Once I established that I had legally purchased
the contents of the barn, which wasn't hard at all by the way - just
presented the bill of sale for the contents of the barn - they
assigned the hull, based on the manufacturer's serial number, an HIN.

From there, it was just a question of making a plate and fixing it to
the stern and in one place on the boat that only I knew the location
of. I'm fairly sure, Michigan has the same procedure, but I'm not
sure about that - most states follow the same procedure.

The real question is this - is the boat worth the effort? A boat that
old may be iffy in terms of sea worthy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I called Michigan and Ohio State agencies today and both said I had
the issue with the 12 hull numbers which is no surprise.

Ohio was like it needs to be inspected so I can have it remeasured as
a lot of 14 ft boats were actually 13 foot nine etc. I was like ok,
but in reality they want to do a theft inspection and run the HIN (no
problem! If someone reported it stolen I would gladly give it back),
but they also said that the Michigan registration should have a spot
for my neighbor to sign off the registration on the back. I looked at
the back and no where is there a spot for anybody to sign off. I have
the bill of sale with his signature. So I am somewhat confused so I
called Michigan to see what they have to say about just letting me
register it up in Michigan, as I live basically on the boarder of
Michigan Ohio and can easily drag the boat to either state. Also
registering it in my name it also releaves my neighbor having to waste
any more of his time if I force the issue in Ohio as it will be in my
name from Michigan. Michigan said the exact same thing that it should
have a spot on the back of the registration. It does not. The
registration looks legit the sticker is on the boat. So I am now just
basically getting a screw around effect. The lady in Michigan said
they just add 0000 to the beginning of current HIN. So I am like that
may be easier then a whole inspection as it currently sits in my
garage with no strap to hold it to the trailer, the trailer is missing
one rubber trailer roller, and I would not even want to figure out the
lights as I plan to just replace the system. I also have to figure out
how to get it to the inspection site as my van currently has a 2 inch
ball and the boat is of course 1 7/8. These were things I wanted to
work out over the winter, once I know I have a boat that I could throw
in the water.

So is the boat really worth my time....well it seems to be in decent
shape the keel is clean no major dings etc. The transom looks solid it
could use a little interior paint on the transom as a few pieces look
like they are faded and paint is starting to peel hear and there on
the interior transom. The electrical and controls seem almost mint. It
could use a update in carpet which is no big deal as my dad before he
died owned a flooring shop (30+ yrs) and I learned the trade all the
way up since I was 5 and I paid my way through college with the
trade. The motor is one that runs and is titled. The boat is in
decent shape for its age, I can not legally get rid of it and my
neighbor was the previous owner, so I can't just dispose of it
somewhere. As sooner or later it would come back to me. So I guess I
am in a rock and a hard spot as far as time and worth

I am getting used to the state title stuff.

Thanks for everyones time.
Chris- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well Today I spoke to ODNR Watercraft and they were nice enough to
send someone out to look at the boat. They said it looked very good
for its age and he said "unofficially" that it should have no problems
in the water. He took the measurements and wrote a little info down
which I have a copy and said in about 2 weeks I will get the 12 HIN as
well as all the paper work for the title to be generated in Ohio. So
we will see.

Thanks everyone and I will keep you all updated,
Chris