D.Duck wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
hk wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
news wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:50:19 -0500, hk
wrote:

IBM is still in business?
They actually opened a couple bucks higher today. It is still
about
16-17 bucks off the 52 week high. I am still not sure what they
do
these days
Except for two stocks, we got out of the stock market years ago
and don't really pay any attention to it, except to chuckle over
its vagaries and the belief anyone pays to its "integrity."
What a silly generalization.
Perhaps you believe in the "generally accepted accounting practices"
of listed companies. We don't.
OK. What investments do you use which have consistently stayed ahead
of inflation?

These days, commercial real estate for income and appreciation, and
some raw land options which we picked up and exercised in the early
1990s. Every couple of years we sell off a lot and at some point,
we'll probably sell the remaining lots to a respectable
architect/developer. We've done very well with the land speculation.
:-)

We also bought gold in the low $400s. Not certificates, coins. And we
have some money invested in private businesses, a real speculation on
our part, but the bookkeepers are honest.
Your land speculation is just that speculation. I could take stock in a
publicly traded company and turn it into cash money tomorrow. You land
sale has to wait for a buyer and the subsequent deal to actually go
through.

Why would you buy gold coins? Are you digging a bomb shelter in your
backyard too?

Liquid assets, let me repeat that liquid assets.
Physical gold sucks as an asset for protection. Go with an ETF like
GLD. Sells for 1/10 of an ounce of gold a share. Very liquid, and gives
you the gold tracking.

Under a worse case scenario, the only thing you are going to be able to
do with an ETF is wipe your butt.

Do I think this country is going to come apart at the seams and devolve
into a violent revolution? You betcha. Maybe not in my lifetime, but the
devolution is a lot closer than I ever thought it will be. Real gold will
smooth the way of some of the survivors.
And the gold will ease your way? Actually GLD has physical gold stocks.
In case of a violent revolution, better to have guns and / or be around a
guy like Shortwave. Or both.

Maybe after the revolution trade will be in beads.




Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.

hk wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
hk wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
news wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:50:19 -0500, hk
wrote:

IBM is still in business?
They actually opened a couple bucks higher today. It is
still about
16-17 bucks off the 52 week high. I am still not sure what
they do
these days
Except for two stocks, we got out of the stock market years
ago and don't really pay any attention to it, except to
chuckle over its vagaries and the belief anyone pays to its
"integrity."
What a silly generalization.
Perhaps you believe in the "generally accepted accounting
practices" of listed companies. We don't.
OK. What investments do you use which have consistently stayed
ahead of inflation?

These days, commercial real estate for income and appreciation,
and some raw land options which we picked up and exercised in the
early 1990s. Every couple of years we sell off a lot and at some
point, we'll probably sell the remaining lots to a respectable
architect/developer. We've done very well with the land
speculation. :-)

We also bought gold in the low $400s. Not certificates, coins.
And we have some money invested in private businesses, a real
speculation on our part, but the bookkeepers are honest.
Your land speculation is just that speculation. I could take stock
in a publicly traded company and turn it into cash money tomorrow.
You land sale has to wait for a buyer and the subsequent deal to
actually go through.

Why would you buy gold coins? Are you digging a bomb shelter in
your backyard too?

Liquid assets, let me repeat that liquid assets.
Physical gold sucks as an asset for protection. Go with an ETF
like GLD. Sells for 1/10 of an ounce of gold a share. Very liquid,
and gives you the gold tracking.

Under a worse case scenario, the only thing you are going to be able
to do with an ETF is wipe your butt.

Do I think this country is going to come apart at the seams and
devolve into a violent revolution? You betcha. Maybe not in my
lifetime, but the devolution is a lot closer than I ever thought it
will be. Real gold will smooth the way of some of the survivors.
And the gold will ease your way? Actually GLD has physical gold
stocks. In case of a violent revolution, better to have guns and / or
be around a guy like Shortwave. Or both.

Maybe after the revolution trade will be in beads.



Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.

LOL, I hope you are storing soup cans and water for the big devolution.

hk wrote:
BAR wrote:
hk wrote:
Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
hk wrote:
...and Wachovia drive the DOW down a few hundred points today?

Is it the economy, stupid?
Thanks for reminding me that I have the opportunity to refinance my
mortgage and reduce my monthly payments.

Also, we are in the process of deciding what new car we are going
to buy. We may be able to get a loan from with zero interest from
the dealer/manufacturer.

Gee.. with all the money you continually brag about earning...why
not negotiate a better discount and pay cash for the vehicle?


He's highly leveraged, and hopes to be a dentist in his next life,
when he will stay in high school.

I can certainly understand taking advantage of the rates right now to
refinance a house mortgage, but going into debt for consumer
spending? Nah.

I am retiring in 10 years Harry, 10 years earlier than you will start
collecting your full social security bene's. And, the current market
conditions will not affect my retirement plans. As other have said if
the Dow goes down a couple of thousand points it is a buying opportunity.



Maybe when you retire in 10 years, you can enroll in high school and get
your GED.

Won't need to, I will have retired 10 years sooner than most my age at a
higher standard of living than I have now.

"hk" wrote in message
...


Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.

Stock up on salt.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

Where the hell were you getting a 20% return?
You gotta have you finance guy putting you in the right funds.


I'll tell you, I have to give you guys credit for having the balls to let a
"finance" guy manage your money and/or investments for retirement.

Maybe I could have made more, maybe not, but I like using common sense and
doing it myself rather than rely on some person who makes a living using
your money. Nope. No way.

You have to know your own limitations and investing isn't one of my
areas of interest. I would rather go out and do stuff than sit around
and figure out where to invest my money. I am good at earning it but not
investing it. Besides I have a family member with a Series 7, working in
the personal finance area, who checks over everything.

Eisboch (with due apologies to all those CPA's/CFP's out there)

hk wrote:
BAR wrote:
hk wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
news wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:50:19 -0500, hk
wrote:

IBM is still in business?
They actually opened a couple bucks higher today. It is still about
16-17 bucks off the 52 week high. I am still not sure what they do
these days
Except for two stocks, we got out of the stock market years ago
and don't really pay any attention to it, except to chuckle over
its vagaries and the belief anyone pays to its "integrity."

What a silly generalization.
Perhaps you believe in the "generally accepted accounting
practices" of listed companies. We don't.


OK. What investments do you use which have consistently stayed ahead
of inflation?


These days, commercial real estate for income and appreciation, and
some raw land options which we picked up and exercised in the early
1990s. Every couple of years we sell off a lot and at some point,
we'll probably sell the remaining lots to a respectable
architect/developer. We've done very well with the land speculation. :-)

We also bought gold in the low $400s. Not certificates, coins. And we
have some money invested in private businesses, a real speculation on
our part, but the bookkeepers are honest.

Your land speculation is just that speculation. I could take stock in
a publicly traded company and turn it into cash money tomorrow. You
land sale has to wait for a buyer and the subsequent deal to actually
go through.

Why would you buy gold coins? Are you digging a bomb shelter in your
backyard too?

Liquid assets, let me repeat that liquid assets.



Land speculation is indeed land speculation. My land partner and I
speculated way back then that owning about 100 acres of heavily wooded,
rolling land in a certain part of Fairfax County would pay off, big time.

You are full of **** Harry. There haven't been any 100 acre lots for
sale in Fairfax County for over 35 years.

It has, and it continues to do so. My guess is that *one* of those lots
is worth more than your net worth. Good times or bad times, not a month
goes by in which we don't get a call asking us if we want to sell
another lot. Usually the answer is no. When we do sell a lot, I put most
of my proceeds, after taxes, into our private REIT and some of it in our
money market account and some of it in a sock. Or if we need a new car,
I simply pay cash for it.

Bull****.

As for the gold coins, well, while I didn't buy them for their
investment value, it's nice that they've just about doubled in value
over these few years.

How many years? 10, 20?

Oh. I don't "finance" the purchase of cars or boats. But I've already
posted that.

You are a fool. There is not benefit in paying cash up front.

I'm thinking of starting up a charity that finds ways to keep
subperforming students in high school so they get their diplomas and
don't quit to join the military. Such a program might have helped
someone like you, eh?

Send you money my way I will ensure that it is put to good use.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:33:35 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

You cannot just look at one year either from a positive or negative aspect.

One of the more interesting things I became involved with was back
testing - I started doing this about ten years or so ago using 1
month, 6 month, 18 month, 36 month spans.

It's really an interesting way to determine the value of any long term
investment.

Now, I've got programs that will forward test, back test, sideways
test, upside down test... :)

I don't trade as much as invest long term. Every once in a while you
get interested in something or the other and invest in that. Solar
stocks recently have been a winner for me - funds and single
intestments. Probably will be handing those off to the kids.

I've mentioned this before, but I still have IBM stock from thirty
years ago. :)

hk wrote:

Damn right. You can trade gold for goods and services. Try that in a
post-revolutionary future with a piece of paper.

I'd rather have a big mean nasty dog, a couple of sidearms and some
rifles and a few shotguns. And, about 40 to 50 thousands rounds of ammo.

BAR wrote:
hk wrote:
BAR wrote:
hk wrote:
Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
hk wrote:
...and Wachovia drive the DOW down a few hundred points today?

Is it the economy, stupid?
Thanks for reminding me that I have the opportunity to refinance
my mortgage and reduce my monthly payments.

Also, we are in the process of deciding what new car we are going
to buy. We may be able to get a loan from with zero interest from
the dealer/manufacturer.

Gee.. with all the money you continually brag about earning...why
not negotiate a better discount and pay cash for the vehicle?


He's highly leveraged, and hopes to be a dentist in his next life,
when he will stay in high school.

I can certainly understand taking advantage of the rates right now
to refinance a house mortgage, but going into debt for consumer
spending? Nah.

I am retiring in 10 years Harry, 10 years earlier than you will start
collecting your full social security bene's. And, the current market
conditions will not affect my retirement plans. As other have said if
the Dow goes down a couple of thousand points it is a buying
opportunity.



Maybe when you retire in 10 years, you can enroll in high school and
get your GED.

Won't need to, I will have retired 10 years sooner than most my age at a
higher standard of living than I have now.


Leaving you free to pursue intellectual interests, no doubt.

I can't think of many things more useless than being "retired."

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...

Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.

Stock up on salt.

Eisboch



No need. I know Lot's wife. She's a pillar of the community.