"Steve" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:44:52 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"


A good CRT, like one with a Sony Trinitron tube, will blow away any
LCD or Plasma panel for picture quality when it comes to black level
and color reproduction. That's why those are still used by
photo/graphics artists. We have some high-end Sun CRTs at work next
to a bunch of flat panel LCDs and the difference is stunning.

Steve

For years we had a large, 3-gun JVC color monitor that was in the house when
we bought it. The previous owner had spared no expense on video equipment
(that was current at the time) and the monitor was designed specifically for
commercial use, not as a consumer product. It wasn't a television. It had
a separate tuner for that.

It had the most spectacular picture I had ever seen. Unfortunately it
finally died and was transferred to the scrap heap.

The single gun Trinitron design was very good, but if you get close to it
you will see a very noticeable characteristic of that kind of display .....
similar to the "screen door" effect of LCD projector display images.

Eisboch

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:12:37 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:34:01 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...


I don't have a plasma here to compare it to, but I didn't notice any big
difference in Best Buy with the two types right next to each other.

"Torch Mode"

Is that what they call overdriving blue?

Yes. If you used your Digital Video Essentials disk and did the color
adjustment while looking through the blue filter they provide, I'll bet your
setting ended up significantly lower than the factory default setting.

Eisboch


Using just that article I provided Jimh a while back, I ended up with just
about all the video setting turned way back from the factory setting.
--
John H

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:09:54 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
.. .

On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:19:52 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"

Why would someone prefer the LCD or the better Plasma models?



Power consumption, heat generation, picture brightness, operational
lifetime, reliability. Another big reason is that even if you go by
the rated spec for Plasma length of service, that doesn't include
burn-in. I use my LCD TV as a *big* computer monitor and also for
playing games with the PS3. LCD does not suffer from screen burn with
static areas of bright screen. Plasma does.




Steve, please don't think I am arguing with you or against LCD, but your
information is dated.

Newer plasma displays are not permanently affected by screen burn. If used
as a
video game monitor for hours and hours, they may develop a temporary
residual image, but it goes away in a short period of time. The older
plasmas *did* have a permanent screen burn problem and the owner's manuals
warned against using them for extended periods of time with static images
like video games or watching in a non-wide screen mode. That is no longer
true, but the reputation remains.

BTW, my daughter with the two boys has a 3-4 year old plasma and the boys
use it for hours and hours (too much) playing their various video games.
There's no evidence of screen burn on their set.

It depends on the video game and whether there are thicker white
static bars, ones where the automatic pixel shift that plasmas use to
help prevent burn-in can't compensate for. Yes, plasmas have gotten
better wrt burn-in than they used to be. It's still an issue though.
They're now about as resistant to burn-in as CRT's are. But you can
still burn a CRT or a plasma depending on how you use it. You still
should take some measures to prevent it. Not so with an LCD. For
some good and recent info, see he
http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/p...tv-burnin.html
Their conclusion is that burn-in should not be a major issue for the
average user if you take steps to prevent it. But it can still
happen.

Power consumption is an issue, although the difference between a large
screen LCD and a large screen plasma is not a huge issue. 100 watts or less
difference.

CNET did a comparison and the average plasma power consumption was 350
watts compared to 222 watts for LCD. That's 57% more power, which may
not mean much if you don't use your set a lot. But could be
significant if you do.

When you normalize for the size of the set, LCD uses an average of
0.29 watts/sq.in. while plasma uses an average 0.35 watts/sq.in. That
tells a better story for plasma since the sets are generally larger on
average. Of course, those are just averages and actual numbers for
real sets vary greatly.

I still maintain that the plasma, when adjusted properly, produces a better
quality picture than a properly adjusted LCD, and I just spend an hour or so
re-confirming that. The new LCD is very nice. The older 50" plasma is
better. Both are Samsungs. The difference is really only important to
nit-pickers, like me.

It really depends on what you watch. If you watch a movie with a lot
of dark scenes in a dark room, then I think a good plasma is
noticeably better. For types of programs where you don't have a lot
of dark scenes or if your viewing area is well lit, the overall
difference between plasma vs. lcd is less than the sample difference
between even two sets of the same model.

One thing though, don't get fooled by the huge "dynamic" contrast
ratios that some LCD sets are touting. Only if the entire scene is
dark can they reduce the bulb brightness to help with the poor black
level. When there's a bright and dark part on the same scene, they
can't do it. I notice that with my Samsung. When the whole scene is
dark, it can make the black level darker. But if there's a large
range of brightness on the same screen, it can't. But a plasma can.
As far as I can see, that's really the only main advantage of plasma
over LCD.

Frankly, since I picked up, carried into the house and installed these TV's
myself, the biggest advantage of the 46" LCD over the 50" plasma is that the
LCD weighs about half that of the plasma. :-)

Hopefully you don't have to move them very often.

Steve

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:25:53 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:44:52 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"


A good CRT, like one with a Sony Trinitron tube, will blow away any
LCD or Plasma panel for picture quality when it comes to black level
and color reproduction. That's why those are still used by
photo/graphics artists. We have some high-end Sun CRTs at work next
to a bunch of flat panel LCDs and the difference is stunning.

Steve

For years we had a large, 3-gun JVC color monitor that was in the house when
we bought it. The previous owner had spared no expense on video equipment
(that was current at the time) and the monitor was designed specifically for
commercial use, not as a consumer product. It wasn't a television. It had
a separate tuner for that.

It had the most spectacular picture I had ever seen. Unfortunately it
finally died and was transferred to the scrap heap.

The single gun Trinitron design was very good, but if you get close to it
you will see a very noticeable characteristic of that kind of display .....
similar to the "screen door" effect of LCD projector display images.

The main thing you'll see with a trinitron display vs. other crt types
(other than the obviously different phosphor pattern and the much
better and brighter picture and better detail) is that the trinitron
will have 2 very thin horizontal lines across the screen at about
1/3rd and 2/3rds of the way down (or up). Those are support wires for
the aperature grill blocking the electron gun.

I used to use a Conrac commercial CRT display for a computer monitor
and a TV. It also had no tuner, weighed a ton, and looked pretty good
for it's era. Not nearly as good as the Sun monitors with the flat
screen trinitron tubes I use now. Man they're good.

Steve

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:12:37 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:34:01 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...


I don't have a plasma here to compare it to, but I didn't notice any big
difference in Best Buy with the two types right next to each other.

"Torch Mode"

Is that what they call overdriving blue?

Yes. If you used your Digital Video Essentials disk and did the color
adjustment while looking through the blue filter they provide, I'll bet your
setting ended up significantly lower than the factory default setting.

I wondered. Back in my day, the guy who owned the TV shop where I
first learned advanced electronics where I worked used to tweak the
blue for that same reason.

I haven't used the DVE yet - I was planning on doing it tonight
sometime.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:12:37 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:34:01 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
m...


I don't have a plasma here to compare it to, but I didn't notice any
big
difference in Best Buy with the two types right next to each other.

"Torch Mode"

Is that what they call overdriving blue?

Yes. If you used your Digital Video Essentials disk and did the color
adjustment while looking through the blue filter they provide, I'll bet
your
setting ended up significantly lower than the factory default setting.

I wondered. Back in my day, the guy who owned the TV shop where I
first learned advanced electronics where I worked used to tweak the
blue for that same reason.

I haven't used the DVE yet - I was planning on doing it tonight
sometime.
Do what Eisboch said. Dont touch nuttin. Watch and be entertained the first
time through. Got mine yesterday.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:12:37 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


I wondered. Back in my day, the guy who owned the TV shop where I
first learned advanced electronics where I worked used to tweak the
blue for that same reason.


You just reminded me of an old timer I knew in CT. I was about 15 years
old, interested in electronics, and kept busy building speakers and
amplifiers out of old, dead radio or TV carcasses. The old timer ran a
small, old fashioned TV repair shop in Bethany and kept me stocked with old
chassis and components, much to my parent's chagrin. Saved him from having
to take them to the dump, he said.

One day I decided to build a couple of crossover networks, so I visited his
shop to get some tips. He stopped what he was working on, rummaged around
behind his desk and pulled out a book on electronics and circuit designs.
He made me sit there learning the formulas and doing the calculations for
low pass, high pass and blocking circuits until I could tell him the value
of the inductors, capacitors and resistors required to build the crossover
networks with various frequency response curves. When he was satisfied that
I understood the design theory, he then went to his parts bin and gave me
the appropriate components. Pretty decent guy.

Eisboch

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 08:06:23 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:12:37 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


I wondered. Back in my day, the guy who owned the TV shop where I
first learned advanced electronics where I worked used to tweak the
blue for that same reason.


You just reminded me of an old timer I knew in CT. I was about 15 years
old, interested in electronics, and kept busy building speakers and
amplifiers out of old, dead radio or TV carcasses. The old timer ran a
small, old fashioned TV repair shop in Bethany and kept me stocked with old
chassis and components, much to my parent's chagrin. Saved him from having
to take them to the dump, he said.

One day I decided to build a couple of crossover networks, so I visited his
shop to get some tips. He stopped what he was working on, rummaged around
behind his desk and pulled out a book on electronics and circuit designs.
He made me sit there learning the formulas and doing the calculations for
low pass, high pass and blocking circuits until I could tell him the value
of the inductors, capacitors and resistors required to build the crossover
networks with various frequency response curves. When he was satisfied that
I understood the design theory, he then went to his parts bin and gave me
the appropriate components. Pretty decent guy.

Dang - almost exactly what happened to me.

I had my Novice license and as it happened, I knew enough to get into
trouble. While building a simple CW transmitter, I ran into a problem
and my Dad wasn't around to help, so I took it down to the TV shop. I
knew he was a ham because he had a tri-bander on a tower behind his
shop.

I walked in with it and asked if he could help me troubleshoot it. He
asked a couple of questions, then did the exact same thing - pulled
out the books and made me do my own trouble shooting with minor
instructions from him.

That was the start of a long relationship with the TV repair shop. By
the time I graduated high school, I had learned a lot from him and had
enough time and knowledge to pass the Master Technician test for the
state of MA. Not to mention advancing in the radio hobby.

Not a lot of mentoring like that around today.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 08:06:23 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:12:37 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


I wondered. Back in my day, the guy who owned the TV shop where I
first learned advanced electronics where I worked used to tweak the
blue for that same reason.


You just reminded me of an old timer I knew in CT. I was about 15 years
old, interested in electronics, and kept busy building speakers and
amplifiers out of old, dead radio or TV carcasses. The old timer ran a
small, old fashioned TV repair shop in Bethany and kept me stocked with
old
chassis and components, much to my parent's chagrin. Saved him from
having
to take them to the dump, he said.

One day I decided to build a couple of crossover networks, so I visited
his
shop to get some tips. He stopped what he was working on, rummaged around
behind his desk and pulled out a book on electronics and circuit designs.
He made me sit there learning the formulas and doing the calculations for
low pass, high pass and blocking circuits until I could tell him the value
of the inductors, capacitors and resistors required to build the crossover
networks with various frequency response curves. When he was satisfied
that
I understood the design theory, he then went to his parts bin and gave me
the appropriate components. Pretty decent guy.

Dang - almost exactly what happened to me.

I had my Novice license and as it happened, I knew enough to get into
trouble. While building a simple CW transmitter, I ran into a problem
and my Dad wasn't around to help, so I took it down to the TV shop. I
knew he was a ham because he had a tri-bander on a tower behind his
shop.

I walked in with it and asked if he could help me troubleshoot it. He
asked a couple of questions, then did the exact same thing - pulled
out the books and made me do my own trouble shooting with minor
instructions from him.

That was the start of a long relationship with the TV repair shop. By
the time I graduated high school, I had learned a lot from him and had
enough time and knowledge to pass the Master Technician test for the
state of MA. Not to mention advancing in the radio hobby.

Not a lot of mentoring like that around today.

Nope. Now we have DVDs like "Digital Video Essentials". Building stuff at
the component level has gone the way of horse drawn carriages, for most
people.

Oh .... you'll get a kick out of this. Last night some of the family were
over and we were teasing Mrs.E. about her obsession with her horses. I used
your line about horses being at the end of their evolutionary cycle and were
basically worthless. She was quick with her response, telling me to go
track the price of a barrel of oil over the past couple of years and I'd be
wise to learn how to ride.

Eisboch

Hey Krauseter, just curious. You mentioned your gun earlier. How did
you get it. If you completed the application accurately, you would not
have qualified for gun ownership. Do you have it illegally?

It's his wife's gun!

Ahh, the Dr-Dr. A gun totin' mama!