wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:09:21 -0800, Calif Bill wrote:


Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills. And they went to court years ago to get a
ruling that the money HAS TO BE SPENT if they pass a spending bill.
Plus they have "Base Line Budgeting" with a built in 13% spending
increase yearly. And it is both sides of the aisle that have been
munching at the feed trough. Been a Dem controlled Congress for the
last year. Spending decreased? A pox on both parties. How the hell we
can be electing anybody from Congress as POTUS is ludicrous.

It isn't just Congress, it's us. We have a Governor here in NJ, who is
trying to fix our budget mess. Everybody is squawking. They all want
the other guy's pork to be cut, not theirs. We are all feeding at the
trough.

Is it the citizens, or the other politicians? Or the special interest
groups that are wallowing in the pork? Probably not the citizens paying the
bills.

"John" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War," Greenspan
said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday and
was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a week
ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is nothing
to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.




Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills.

Pity you have swallowed all of the rhetoric without thinking for yourself.
Actions speak louder than words, and numbers say all.
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Which party had a total lock on the senate, congress and presidency from
2000-2006?



And 2007? And the years before 2000? The only reason that the Clinton
years were a near balanced budget is the reduced spending by the
Republican's under Newt for a couple of years and the obscene amount of
money coming into Government coffers from the dot.bomb debacle. Came in
faster than they could increase spending. Part of the debt for the last 7
years was all the new programs instituted during those years. As I stated,
Congress has to pass any spending bill, and both sides of the aisle have
overspent for most of my 65 years of life. Sure the debt has increased
greatly during the last 7 years, but is was immense before those 7 years.
As I stated. How cas we elect anybody from Congress as Potus is idiocy!

"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and
the national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not
to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed
chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast
released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War,"
Greenspan said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he
said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday
and was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a
week ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is
nothing to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.



Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in
Civics class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is
Congress who passes ALL spending bills. And they went to court years
ago to get a ruling that the money HAS TO BE SPENT if they pass a
spending bill. Plus they have "Base Line Budgeting" with a built in
13% spending increase yearly. And it is both sides of the aisle that
have been munching at the feed trough. Been a Dem controlled
Congress for the last year. Spending decreased? A pox on both
parties. How the hell we can be electing anybody from Congress as
POTUS is ludicrous.
Gee, who was your choice for POTUS, Bill?
None of the three there now.

Oh... I'm guessing...Fred Thompson.

You guess wrong again.

Oh well...that was about the extent of my interest in your choice of
candidate...one guess.

Another lie.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Look - everybody was looking for a quick buck. The brokers, the home
buyers, the securities industry - it was a classic bubble. Everybody
was buying into the never ending increase in real estate prices.
Nobody in Congress saw it coming and the securities industry was on a
huge roll with complicated securities and derivatives. I saw a
prospectus in 2003 for a SIV which was 132 pages long - that was the
detailed base agreement. The CDO squared attached was 281 pages long,
the CDO cubed was 857 pages long, etc. It was sliced and diced and
leveraged to such an extent that you couldn't understand the base
economics. Yet, they kept selling the products and morons kept buying
the products.

That's what did everybody in - greed on the loan broker's, greed on
the home owner's and greed on the securities people. Nobody saw it
coming because nobody understood it.

Somebody had to take the hit. Bear Sterns took the hit - that's
business. They, and their employees, got bit in the ass. That's
life. Financial planners tell people over and over and over - never
ever believe anything you are told - look at the fundamentals, do your
research, figure not on the best that can happen, but the worst that
can happen. Balance that risk against your ability to take the hit if
everything goes teats up. If you can stand to take the hit, then
balance that against the upside potential in terms of percentage of
gain against percentage of loss. Then make your bet.

If there was one single aspect of this whole mess, it was this.
Everybody thought they were the casino, not the mark.

Whoops. :)


Well put. ........ ( I think.)

Eisboch


And the same thing happened under the former administration. Unbridled
greed in the tech securities market. Buy an IPO and sell it in 3 months for
10x profit. Where was the Fed and the SEC in controlling the Ponzi market?
Seems as if no one in government paid attention to history.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed
chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War," Greenspan
said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday
and was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a week
ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is
nothing to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.




Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills.

Pity you have swallowed all of the rhetoric without thinking for
yourself.
Actions speak louder than words, and numbers say all.
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Which party had a total lock on the senate, congress and presidency from
2000-2006?



And 2007? And the years before 2000? The only reason that the Clinton
years were a near balanced budget is the reduced spending by the
Republican's under Newt for a couple of years and the obscene amount of
money coming into Government coffers from the dot.bomb debacle. Came in
faster than they could increase spending. Part of the debt for the last 7
years was all the new programs instituted during those years. As I
stated, Congress has to pass any spending bill, and both sides of the
aisle have overspent for most of my 65 years of life. Sure the debt has
increased greatly during the last 7 years, but is was immense before those
7 years. As I stated. How cas we elect anybody from Congress as Potus is
idiocy!


"....the obscene amount of money coming into Government coffers from the
dot.bomb debacle."

How did the dot.com enterprises load up the treasury when they didn't make
any money and surely paid no taxes?

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:09:40 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


The POTUS isn't a babysitter for our personal lives and investments.
Or at least he/she shouldn't be. In a free society, adults are
responsible to research risks, weigh the advice of experts and be
responsible for their choices.

And Bear Stearns isn't? I don't get it. Last year, Wall Street paid $38
billion in bonuses. Perhaps, they should take up a collection for Bear.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=ahE8xVisWsbE




If those collective choices lead to a significant risk to the *US*
financial structure as a whole, then the POTUS should act, as Bush did
this weekend, supporting the sale of Bear Stearns.

May be a very bad precedent. Investment houses have gone bust before.
I see no reason to be bailing out Bear Stearns.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:20:35 -0000, wrote:

May be a very bad precedent. Investment houses have gone bust before.
I see no reason to be bailing out Bear Stearns.

Wrong oh mighty intertubes search expert.

Look up the financial crash of 1907.

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not
to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed
chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War,"
Greenspan said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday
and was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a
week ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is
nothing to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.




Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills.

Pity you have swallowed all of the rhetoric without thinking for
yourself.
Actions speak louder than words, and numbers say all.
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Which party had a total lock on the senate, congress and presidency from
2000-2006?



And 2007? And the years before 2000? The only reason that the Clinton
years were a near balanced budget is the reduced spending by the
Republican's under Newt for a couple of years and the obscene amount of
money coming into Government coffers from the dot.bomb debacle. Came in
faster than they could increase spending. Part of the debt for the last
7 years was all the new programs instituted during those years. As I
stated, Congress has to pass any spending bill, and both sides of the
aisle have overspent for most of my 65 years of life. Sure the debt has
increased greatly during the last 7 years, but is was immense before
those 7 years. As I stated. How cas we elect anybody from Congress as
Potus is idiocy!


"....the obscene amount of money coming into Government coffers from the
dot.bomb debacle."

How did the dot.com enterprises load up the treasury when they didn't make
any money and surely paid no taxes?



Soon as you accepted those IPO shares, you owed 28% immediatly to the
government. That is the first part of the money. Then April 15, all that
paper money you showed the day the shares were issued, is now ordinary
income. Even if the shares were worth nothing at the end of the year. Huge
amounts of money came into the treasury from all those IPO's. California,
increased spending with all those windfall monies and now we are stuck with
the programs and not extra money. In California, the combined amount was
50%+. 35% Fed, 14% State, and 1.5% on the total for Medicare. Billion
Dollar IPO, $350 million to the fed! That money.

"John" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message

And 2007? And the years before 2000? The only reason that the Clinton
years were a near balanced budget is the reduced spending by the
Republican's under Newt for a couple of years and the obscene amount of
money coming into Government coffers from the dot.bomb debacle. Came in
faster than they could increase spending. Part of the debt for the last
7 years was all the new programs instituted during those years. As I
stated, Congress has to pass any spending bill, and both sides of the
aisle have overspent for most of my 65 years of life. Sure the debt has
increased greatly during the last 7 years, but is was immense before
those 7 years. As I stated. How cas we elect anybody from Congress as
Potus is idiocy!


Again you should check the facts. Before Reagan, the national debt was
less than 1 trillion dollars. He claimed we were drowning in debt and
something had to be done, so of course he tripled the debt! GH Bush
increased it by about another 2 trillion. While Clinton was in office the
debt went up another 1 trillion. GW Bush has driven it up another two
trillion. To put his in perspective: Democratic presidents are
responsible for 2 trillion of out national Debt and republicans are
responsible for 7 trillion.

Who's budget is it? The president sends a budget to the congress to
approve/disapprove or modify. The president still has veto power on any
budget. So Congress is responsible for the pork they pack on but it still
is the president's budget.
I went out to the treasury web site, you used to be able to get historical
data all the way back to before WW2 - not anymore! Think this
administration is trying to hide the miserable job it is/has done?

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html


The Executive branch sends a proposed budget to Congress. That ends that
part. Congress passes the spending bills it wants. The Executive Branch
budget is only a proposed spending plan. They do not get the budget back as
proposed. Then the Legislative Branch got a court ruling that if they
passed a spending bill, the money had to be spent. Up until then the
Executive branch just did not spend the extra money. Bush screwed the pooch
royally by not vetoing anything regarding spending for about 6 years. Learn
a little more about government workings and then come back here.

John H. wrote:


Well, perhaps the damn Democrats shouldn't have pushed so hard for getting
everyone in a home.



The absolutely perfect example of Repub/Conserv "I've got mine, so screw
you."

Classic.