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The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I don't see where it's a sport anymore.
If your family needs the food...that's one thing, but to sit on the edge of a field and blast away at a flock of geese walking around resting or trying to find feed......seems a bit like shooting fish in a barrell. Same with deer hunting. With a high powered rifle and scope...not to mention ATV's & Ski Doos what chance does the deer have. What's next?...laser rifles that are silent? The 'great white hunter' could blast holes in dozens of the beasts before they are scared off. The Beatles said it all....'hey Bunglow Bill what did you kill' Gould 0738 wrote in message ... I think Harry will really be saddened to hear that I went to the seminar at Fort A.P.Hill here in Virginia and got my deer permit for the base this coming season. Venison steaks will be for dinner! Butch Ammon Deer hunting? Maybe your deer are bigger, meaner, and warier back east but shooting a deer out west here anymore is like gunning down the neighbor's pet goat. Darn things are all semi-tame. They are so acclimated to people that about half of them come up and beg for snacks when they see human beings. There was probably something to the "sport" at one time, but most of the deer around here are not much bigger than (and no more clever than) a typical petting-zoo goat. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I don't exactly "shoot" deer, as in using a rifle - I don't own a rifle. But
I have a big compound bow with 65 lbs of pull to it, and merely launch an arrow at a deer. It's more sporty that way - you have to get REAL CLOSE to a deer too. Yes, that does sound a little more sporting than blasting a 75-pound Bambi from 200 yards away using a high-powered rifle and scope. :-) |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 02:49:53 GMT, "Jim"
wrote: I challenge you to prove me wrong. You're not worth the effort. bb |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Gould 0738 wrote:
I don't exactly "shoot" deer, as in using a rifle - I don't own a rifle. But I have a big compound bow with 65 lbs of pull to it, and merely launch an arrow at a deer. It's more sporty that way - you have to get REAL CLOSE to a deer too. Yes, that does sound a little more sporting than blasting a 75-pound Bambi from 200 yards away using a high-powered rifle and scope. :-) Where's the "sport" part? Does Bambi shoot back? -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Just before I located to FL the Deer in MI were having
a epidemic of brain worm -- I think this is what its called. the DNR was cutting back on who could get a license and they were warning the public. I seen one go mad just before we left, they loose all sense of direction and run in circles until they drop it was sad. I called the DNR out to put the poor thing out of its misery. Has there been any reports of this into your state? or states, if anyone knows. NH__/)_ "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... I think Harry will really be saddened to hear that I went to the seminar at Fort A.P.Hill here in Virginia and got my deer permit for the base this coming season. Venison steaks will be for dinner! Butch Ammon Deer hunting? Maybe your deer are bigger, meaner, and warier back east but shooting a deer out west here anymore is like gunning down the neighbor's pet goat. Darn things are all semi-tame. They are so acclimated to people that about half of them come up and beg for snacks when they see human beings. There was probably something to the "sport" at one time, but most of the deer around here are not much bigger than (and no more clever than) a typical petting-zoo goat. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Hey call your local fish and game and find out.
NH_/)_ "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NH_/)_ wrote: Just before I located to FL the Deer in MI were having a epidemic of brain worm -- I think this is what its called. the DNR was cutting back on who could get a license and they were warning the public. I seen one go mad just before we left, they loose all sense of direction and run in circles until they drop it was sad. I called the DNR out to put the poor thing out of its misery. Has there been any reports of this into your state? or states, if anyone knows. NH__/)_ "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... I think Harry will really be saddened to hear that I went to the seminar at Fort A.P.Hill here in Virginia and got my deer permit for the base this coming season. Venison steaks will be for dinner! Butch Ammon Deer hunting? Maybe your deer are bigger, meaner, and warier back east but shooting a deer out west here anymore is like gunning down the neighbor's pet goat. Darn things are all semi-tame. They are so acclimated to people that about half of them come up and beg for snacks when they see human beings. There was probably something to the "sport" at one time, but most of the deer around here are not much bigger than (and no more clever than) a typical petting-zoo goat. Naw. Around here, it is the "great white hunters" who lose all sense of direction, run around in circles and, occasionally, shoot each other. Question: does a hunter need a permit to bag another hunter? -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Question: does a hunter need a permit to bag another hunter? I think they should be allowed to shoot each other without a permit. I also would not require deer to get permits to shoot the hunters either. If you kill an animal just for the fun (sport) of it, then the same should be done to you....period. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Don White wrote: I don't see where it's a sport anymore. If your family needs the food...that's one thing, but to sit on the edge of a field and blast away at a flock of geese walking around resting or trying to find feed......seems a bit like shooting fish in a barrell. Same with deer hunting. With a high powered rifle and scope...not to mention ATV's & Ski Doos what chance does the deer have. What's next?...laser rifles that are silent? The 'great white hunter' could blast holes in dozens of the beasts before they are scared off. The Beatles said it all....'hey Bunglow Bill what did you kill' Gould 0738 wrote in message ... I think Harry will really be saddened to hear that I went to the seminar at Fort A.P.Hill here in Virginia and got my deer permit for the base this coming season. Venison steaks will be for dinner! Butch Ammon Deer hunting? Maybe your deer are bigger, meaner, and warier back east but shooting a deer out west here anymore is like gunning down the neighbor's pet goat. Darn things are all semi-tame. They are so acclimated to people that about half of them come up and beg for snacks when they see human beings. There was probably something to the "sport" at one time, but most of the deer around here are not much bigger than (and no more clever than) a typical petting-zoo goat. Isn't it wonderful? We overdevelop the earth and take away the habitat of all sorts of wild critters, some of whom, like geese, then have to forage wherever they can, and then we get aggravated when they swoop down on a farmer's field to steal a little grain. So the farmer calls some brave men with shotguns in, and they blast the geese to smithereens. It takes one brave man to shoot a goose, a duck or a deer. At least in fishing, one can catch and release. Not so easy to shoot and release, eh? Once in a while, I'll catch a glimpse of some "hunting show" in which a great white hunter will sit up in a tree with a gun or a bow and wait for a harmless critter to walk into range. Then the guy will blast it and practically get orgasmic when the animal falls over dead. What a thrill, eh? Bubba shot himself one of them there dangerous elk! What a man. You eat meat or you don't. It's just that simple. Paying a butcher to kill a critter for you works out the same way; you just loose the connection between something dying and you eating. It does not change the fact that you are eating animal flesh! Where do you suppose that pink chunk in the butchers showcase came from? Most of nature does not seem to have any problem with this - humans have enough food and spare time to get worked up about it. If it bothers you, don't kill and eat critters. And don't pay others to kill them in your name. Some people have come to terms with these facts and are happy carnivores - deal with it. Mark Browne PS Do you know how many animal parts are found in a box of cereal? Almost everything you eat is pretty gross while it is being made - if you could see how most of your food is made, you would not eat it! |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Harry, Do you want to explain why you find it amusing to catch a fish, work
him almost to death reeling him in, rip the hook out of his mouth and the "release him". It is estimated that less than half of the released fish live. The least you can do after traumatizing the damn fish is eat him. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NH_/)_ wrote: Just before I located to FL the Deer in MI were having a epidemic of brain worm -- I think this is what its called. the DNR was cutting back on who could get a license and they were warning the public. I seen one go mad just before we left, they loose all sense of direction and run in circles until they drop it was sad. I called the DNR out to put the poor thing out of its misery. Has there been any reports of this into your state? or states, if anyone knows. NH__/)_ "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... I think Harry will really be saddened to hear that I went to the seminar at Fort A.P.Hill here in Virginia and got my deer permit for the base this coming season. Venison steaks will be for dinner! Butch Ammon Deer hunting? Maybe your deer are bigger, meaner, and warier back east but shooting a deer out west here anymore is like gunning down the neighbor's pet goat. Darn things are all semi-tame. They are so acclimated to people that about half of them come up and beg for snacks when they see human beings. There was probably something to the "sport" at one time, but most of the deer around here are not much bigger than (and no more clever than) a typical petting-zoo goat. Naw. Around here, it is the "great white hunters" who lose all sense of direction, run around in circles and, occasionally, shoot each other. Question: does a hunter need a permit to bag another hunter? -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Mark Browne wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Don White wrote: I don't see where it's a sport anymore. If your family needs the food...that's one thing, but to sit on the edge of a field and blast away at a flock of geese walking around resting or trying to find feed......seems a bit like shooting fish in a barrell. Same with deer hunting. With a high powered rifle and scope...not to mention ATV's & Ski Doos what chance does the deer have. What's next?...laser rifles that are silent? The 'great white hunter' could blast holes in dozens of the beasts before they are scared off. The Beatles said it all....'hey Bunglow Bill what did you kill' Gould 0738 wrote in message ... I think Harry will really be saddened to hear that I went to the seminar at Fort A.P.Hill here in Virginia and got my deer permit for the base this coming season. Venison steaks will be for dinner! Butch Ammon Deer hunting? Maybe your deer are bigger, meaner, and warier back east but shooting a deer out west here anymore is like gunning down the neighbor's pet goat. Darn things are all semi-tame. They are so acclimated to people that about half of them come up and beg for snacks when they see human beings. There was probably something to the "sport" at one time, but most of the deer around here are not much bigger than (and no more clever than) a typical petting-zoo goat. Isn't it wonderful? We overdevelop the earth and take away the habitat of all sorts of wild critters, some of whom, like geese, then have to forage wherever they can, and then we get aggravated when they swoop down on a farmer's field to steal a little grain. So the farmer calls some brave men with shotguns in, and they blast the geese to smithereens. It takes one brave man to shoot a goose, a duck or a deer. At least in fishing, one can catch and release. Not so easy to shoot and release, eh? Once in a while, I'll catch a glimpse of some "hunting show" in which a great white hunter will sit up in a tree with a gun or a bow and wait for a harmless critter to walk into range. Then the guy will blast it and practically get orgasmic when the animal falls over dead. What a thrill, eh? Bubba shot himself one of them there dangerous elk! What a man. You eat meat or you don't. It's just that simple. Paying a butcher to kill a critter for you works out the same way; you just loose the connection between something dying and you eating. It does not change the fact that you are eating animal flesh! Where do you suppose that pink chunk in the butchers showcase came from? Most of nature does not seem to have any problem with this - humans have enough food and spare time to get worked up about it. If it bothers you, don't kill and eat critters. And don't pay others to kill them in your name. Some people have come to terms with these facts and are happy carnivores - deal with it. Mark Browne PS Do you know how many animal parts are found in a box of cereal? Almost everything you eat is pretty gross while it is being made - if you could see how most of your food is made, you would not eat it! Eating or not eating meat is not the subject here. It is the concept that shooting animals is some sort of sport. I am not a vegetarian. I am not squeamish about going to the meat counter at the supermarket and buying food. Going to the woods with a rifle or bow and sitting in ambush for a dumb animal is not sport, it is slaughter. Calling it a sport is an absurdity. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Does the same hold true for those who catch and kill fish for fun? Many of
these "sportsmen" believe it is ok as long as you release the fish, in reality a large percent of those released fish die. Maybe we should train Orcas to destroy fishing boats to even the odds and make it a real sport. "Chris" wrote in message ... Question: does a hunter need a permit to bag another hunter? I think they should be allowed to shoot each other without a permit. I also would not require deer to get permits to shoot the hunters either. If you kill an animal just for the fun (sport) of it, then the same should be done to you....period. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I don't exactly "shoot" deer, as in using a rifle - I don't own a rifle.
But I have a big compound bow with 65 lbs of pull to it, and merely launch an arrow at a deer. It's more sporty that way - you have to get REAL CLOSE to a deer too. Yes, that does sound a little more sporting than blasting a 75-pound Bambi from 200 yards away using a high-powered rifle and scope. :-) Where's the "sport" part? Does Bambi shoot back? *SIGH* Look, a deer (or turkey, duck, heck even a pronghorn antelope) have powerful senses far keener than man. They *know* you are out there and can detect you, smell you, see you.... A deer rifle could "blast a deer" from 200 yards away - as you and Chuck Gould said. But with that compound bow of mine, I only have 3 sight pins on it (10 yards, 20 yards, 30 yards). Do you know how CLOSE 30 yards actually is? How to get a deer to walk within 30 yards is a major challenge, because of their wariness. Now with turkeys, they are torturous creatures that frustrate even the most seasoned of hunters. They see in full color like a human, and can see you and your human outline from probably a 1/4 mile away! Ducks and geese seem to know that "something doesn't look right here..." and will flare off just outside of shotgun range. They too have senses and aerial acrobatics to elude a spray of shotgun shot. Anyway, let's talk about boating in this thread... I like duckhunting and boating with friends of mine. They have big Polarcraft duck boats with the big pop-up blinds on them. They are about 14' jon boats and have about a 25hp outboard on them. Kinda cool looking... Butch Ammon |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Harry,
Don't you feel bad using fish for your sadistic sport? How many fish have you tortured and killed this year? Fish facts for sal****er anglers The more we learn about fish behavior, the more we have to learn By Dr. David A. Ross Sal****er Flyfishing magazine Recently, I came across some scientific articles about fish and their behavior that I thought would be of interest to Sal****er Flyfishing's readers. Most of these scientific articles deal with a particular species of fish. Can such studies apply to other species? Sometimes they can, and sometimes they can't. Let's take a look at the useful information from these articles, summarized. Recovery of Stressed Fish An exhausted fish takes longer to recover than you might think, perhaps several hours, according to scientific studies. Fishermen who practice catch-and-release generally understand that the quicker a fish is brought to the boat and released, the better its chances of recovery. In the scientific sense, "recovery" means more than just resting for a few minutes. During a long or hard fight, a fish might exhaust the energy stores (glycogen) in its muscles and start to produce lactate (lactic acid). You can have a similar response when you run too hard. In a fish, a buildup of lactic acid can cause internal poisoning that might result in the fish's death or leave it so weakened that it cannot escape a predator. A fish has "recovered" from its exertions when the lactic-acid buildup is cleared and it has replenished the glycogen in its muscles. Fishermen often assume that if a fish swims away after it is released, it has recovered. This, unfortunately, is usually not true. Most laboratory studies indicate that recovery can take from eight to 24 hours. These laboratory studies generally follow a procedure of first exercising a fish until it is exhausted and then putting it in an isolated and restrictive chamber to monitor its recovery. Under these conditions, a stressed fish is not able to swim freely. In nature, however, some fish, such as trout, will continue to swim and remain active after they are caught and released. A group of scientists from the University of Western Ontario (Reference 1 on page 62) decided to determine if activity was beneficial to a fish after its release. In other words, they decided to test the difference in the recovery times of trout that swam freely after being released and those that were held in isolation. Interestingly, these researchers found that sustained, low-speed swimming actually enhances metabolic recovery in rainbow trout that had been exercised nearly to exhaustion. Fish that swam after being released recovered within two hours, whereas the isolated fish needed more than six hours for recovery. A "cooling down" period similar to that followed by many human athletes after exercise is beneficial to trout, and perhaps to other species of fish. This suggests that "resting" a fish in a live well might not do it any good. In any case, a tired fish probably doesn't recover as quickly as many fishermen suppose. Play fish quickly, and release them as soon as possible. Stalking Prey A group of German and American marine scientists (Reference 2) determined that a European catfish was actually able to stalk its prey by following the prey's wake. The scientists found that this catfish could pick up the trail of a guppy 10 seconds after it had passed by, and then follow the trail for up to 55 times the length of the guppy's body before attacking it. Their studies of this ability, so far found in only this one species of catfish, might eventually explain how some fish are able to feed in the dark. It is possible that in addition to detecting the guppy's wake, the catfish might also be following a chemical trail produced by the guppy. The best guess, at present, is that the catfish's lateral line let it detect the prey's wake. A somewhat related study involving seals, which are mammals, has shown that they can use their whiskers to detect prey. For example, a masked harbor seal could easily follow the wake of a miniature propeller-driven submarine after its motor had been turned off. If the submarine had moved in a curved path, the seal would follow in a similar path. Some scientists speculate that the whiskers of other marine mammals might also act as one of their underwater sensors, helping them to detect minute vibrations or turbulence. We still have a lot to learn about how fish are able to detect prey in the dark or in muddy water. Certainly, many species of fish can find and catch food that they (or at least we) cannot see. Vibration and scent both play roles, and many artificial lures appeal to a fish's lateral line, its sense of smell, or both. This explains why flies that wiggle or "move water" work so well, and suggests that this aspect of fly design probably merits more study. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Mark Browne wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Don White wrote: I don't see where it's a sport anymore. If your family needs the food...that's one thing, but to sit on the edge of a field and blast away at a flock of geese walking around resting or trying to find feed......seems a bit like shooting fish in a barrell. Same with deer hunting. With a high powered rifle and scope...not to mention ATV's & Ski Doos what chance does the deer have. What's next?...laser rifles that are silent? The 'great white hunter' could blast holes in dozens of the beasts before they are scared off. The Beatles said it all....'hey Bunglow Bill what did you kill' Gould 0738 wrote in message ... I think Harry will really be saddened to hear that I went to the seminar at Fort A.P.Hill here in Virginia and got my deer permit for the base this coming season. Venison steaks will be for dinner! Butch Ammon Deer hunting? Maybe your deer are bigger, meaner, and warier back east but shooting a deer out west here anymore is like gunning down the neighbor's pet goat. Darn things are all semi-tame. They are so acclimated to people that about half of them come up and beg for snacks when they see human beings. There was probably something to the "sport" at one time, but most of the deer around here are not much bigger than (and no more clever than) a typical petting-zoo goat. Isn't it wonderful? We overdevelop the earth and take away the habitat of all sorts of wild critters, some of whom, like geese, then have to forage wherever they can, and then we get aggravated when they swoop down on a farmer's field to steal a little grain. So the farmer calls some brave men with shotguns in, and they blast the geese to smithereens. It takes one brave man to shoot a goose, a duck or a deer. At least in fishing, one can catch and release. Not so easy to shoot and release, eh? Once in a while, I'll catch a glimpse of some "hunting show" in which a great white hunter will sit up in a tree with a gun or a bow and wait for a harmless critter to walk into range. Then the guy will blast it and practically get orgasmic when the animal falls over dead. What a thrill, eh? Bubba shot himself one of them there dangerous elk! What a man. You eat meat or you don't. It's just that simple. Paying a butcher to kill a critter for you works out the same way; you just loose the connection between something dying and you eating. It does not change the fact that you are eating animal flesh! Where do you suppose that pink chunk in the butchers showcase came from? Most of nature does not seem to have any problem with this - humans have enough food and spare time to get worked up about it. If it bothers you, don't kill and eat critters. And don't pay others to kill them in your name. Some people have come to terms with these facts and are happy carnivores - deal with it. Mark Browne PS Do you know how many animal parts are found in a box of cereal? Almost everything you eat is pretty gross while it is being made - if you could see how most of your food is made, you would not eat it! Eating or not eating meat is not the subject here. It is the concept that shooting animals is some sort of sport. I am not a vegetarian. I am not squeamish about going to the meat counter at the supermarket and buying food. Going to the woods with a rifle or bow and sitting in ambush for a dumb animal is not sport, it is slaughter. Calling it a sport is an absurdity. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I think they should be allowed to shoot each other without a permit. I also
would not require deer to get permits to shoot the hunters either. If you kill an animal just for the fun (sport) of it, then the same should be done to you....period. This doesn't even deserve a reply. .......BUT.... Look man, I *DON'T* just go out and aimlessly blast any wild animal that I see. If I want to augment my family's suppliment of food, and it happens to be turkey season, I will go out and get a turkey for us to eat. You eat turkey at Thansgiving, don't you? I don't know of any hunter friends of mine that go out and blast animals for the sport of it. There are rules and regulations, and a hunter can get heavily fined and maybe jailed for poaching. Butch Ammon |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Butch Ammon wrote:
I don't exactly "shoot" deer, as in using a rifle - I don't own a rifle. But I have a big compound bow with 65 lbs of pull to it, and merely launch an arrow at a deer. It's more sporty that way - you have to get REAL CLOSE to a deer too. Yes, that does sound a little more sporting than blasting a 75-pound Bambi from 200 yards away using a high-powered rifle and scope. :-) Where's the "sport" part? Does Bambi shoot back? *SIGH* Look, a deer (or turkey, duck, heck even a pronghorn antelope) have powerful senses far keener than man. They *know* you are out there and can detect you, smell you, see you.... A deer rifle could "blast a deer" from 200 yards away - as you and Chuck Gould said. But with that compound bow of mine, I only have 3 sight pins on it (10 yards, 20 yards, 30 yards). Do you know how CLOSE 30 yards actually is? How to get a deer to walk within 30 yards is a major challenge, because of their wariness. Now with turkeys, they are torturous creatures that frustrate even the most seasoned of hunters. They see in full color like a human, and can see you and your human outline from probably a 1/4 mile away! Ducks and geese seem to know that "something doesn't look right here..." and will flare off just outside of shotgun range. They too have senses and aerial acrobatics to elude a spray of shotgun shot. Anyway, let's talk about boating in this thread... I like duckhunting and boating with friends of mine. They have big Polarcraft duck boats with the big pop-up blinds on them. They are about 14' jon boats and have about a 25hp outboard on them. Kinda cool looking... Butch Ammon Butch, I know you to be a very decent and honorable guy, and I'm really not picking on you, but, rather, on the concept of hunting animals as "sport." I'm not even anti-shotgun, as you well know. I kill my quota of defenseless skeet every year. In fact, I think sporting clays is the best way of all to hunt, and it is indeed a "sport," as is paper target or range shooting. The sport is the competition. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
"Bill Cole" wrote in message news:uYm6b.373756$Ho3.55953@sccrnsc03... Wally, I doubt anyone would break someone leg with a pick em up truck. I have meet a few ignorant individuals in my time, but no one who would break someone's legs with a truck. It sounds like a fabrication or an urban legend to me. Unfortunately, it is easier to encourage dissention and hatred than to solve problems, so people of limited ability tend to thrive on dissention and hatred. Harry did breaks someone's legs with his truck. He did it purposely and bragged about it here. Try a google search if you don't believe me. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 13:49:10 GMT, "Bill Cole"
wrote: e it is ok as long as you release the fish, in reality a large percent of those released fish die. Link? bb |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:36:37 GMT, "Jim" wrote:
"Bill Cole" wrote in message news:uYm6b.373756$Ho3.55953@sccrnsc03... Wally, I doubt anyone would break someone leg with a pick em up truck. I have meet a few ignorant individuals in my time, but no one who would break someone's legs with a truck. It sounds like a fabrication or an urban legend to me. Unfortunately, it is easier to encourage dissention and hatred than to solve problems, so people of limited ability tend to thrive on dissention and hatred. Harry did breaks someone's legs with his truck. He did it purposely and bragged about it here. Try a google search if you don't believe me. Harry may have *said* he broke someone's leg with a pickup truck. Did anyone actually believe that? Anyone see a police report? John On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I agree with the comment that all of our food comes from somewhere. There's no
moral difference between killing the food personally or paying somebody else to do it for you. Will somebody please pass the A-1 steak sauce? :-) |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Why do so few people know how to use a search engine? Quicker than you can
type the word "Link" you can find your own Links. For those who do not understand how to use a search engine, attached is a link: http://www.ellsworthamerican.com/arc..._09-30-99.html http://seagrant.gso.uri.edu/factshee...elease_fs.html http://www.ks-mo-hunt.org/catch_release_fishing.htm http://adirondackexplorer.org/june2001debatable.html ps - For a small fee, I will teach anyone how to find there own links. Sort of teaching a man how to fish. "bb" wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 13:49:10 GMT, "Bill Cole" wrote: e it is ok as long as you release the fish, in reality a large percent of those released fish die. Link? bb |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
This doesn't even deserve a reply. ......BUT.... Look man, I *DON'T* just go out and aimlessly blast any wild animal that I see. If I want to augment my family's suppliment of food, and it happens to be turkey season, I will go out and get a turkey for us to eat. You eat turkey at Thansgiving, don't you? I don't know of any hunter friends of mine that go out and blast animals for the sport of it. There are rules and regulations, and a hunter can get heavily fined and maybe jailed for poaching. Butch Ammon If you look at what I wrote I was talking about those who kill animals for the fun of it, not for the purposes of food. If you like to kill your own food to save money or because you enjoy it I have no problem with that. I was talking about those who kill a deer or any animal and just leave it for dead, and plenty of people do that. Read more carefully next time. Chris |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
|
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 02:38:37 GMT, "Don White"
wrote: I don't see where it's a sport anymore. If your family needs the food...that's one thing, but to sit on the edge of a field and blast away at a flock of geese walking around resting or trying to find feed......seems a bit like shooting fish in a barrell. Same with deer hunting. With a high powered rifle and scope...not to mention ATV's & Ski Doos what chance does the deer have. What's next?...laser rifles that are silent? The 'great white hunter' could blast holes in dozens of the beasts before they are scared off. The Beatles said it all....'hey Bunglow Bill what did you kill' Don, FWIW, laser sights and silencers are strictly illegal for any kind of hunting, and any responsible hunter would not think of using them even if they were legal. Also FWIW, if I am bird hunting (including waterfowl), I do not shoot them if they are "down". All shots are taken "in flight". I don't know if this makes any difference to you, but please get the facts straight about laser sights and silencers. Thanks, noah Gould 0738 wrote in message ... I think Harry will really be saddened to hear that I went to the seminar at Fort A.P.Hill here in Virginia and got my deer permit for the base this coming season. Venison steaks will be for dinner! Butch Ammon Deer hunting? Maybe your deer are bigger, meaner, and warier back east but shooting a deer out west here anymore is like gunning down the neighbor's pet goat. Darn things are all semi-tame. They are so acclimated to people that about half of them come up and beg for snacks when they see human beings. There was probably something to the "sport" at one time, but most of the deer around here are not much bigger than (and no more clever than) a typical petting-zoo goat. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 13:35:32 GMT, "Mark Browne"
wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Don White wrote: I don't see where it's a sport anymore. If your family needs the food...that's one thing, but to sit on the edge of a field and blast away at a flock of geese walking around resting or trying to find feed......seems a bit like shooting fish in a barrell. Same with deer hunting. With a high powered rifle and scope...not to mention ATV's & Ski Doos what chance does the deer have. What's next?...laser rifles that are silent? The 'great white hunter' could blast holes in dozens of the beasts before they are scared off. The Beatles said it all....'hey Bunglow Bill what did you kill' Gould 0738 wrote in message ... I think Harry will really be saddened to hear that I went to the seminar at Fort A.P.Hill here in Virginia and got my deer permit for the base this coming season. Venison steaks will be for dinner! Butch Ammon Deer hunting? Maybe your deer are bigger, meaner, and warier back east but shooting a deer out west here anymore is like gunning down the neighbor's pet goat. Darn things are all semi-tame. They are so acclimated to people that about half of them come up and beg for snacks when they see human beings. There was probably something to the "sport" at one time, but most of the deer around here are not much bigger than (and no more clever than) a typical petting-zoo goat. Isn't it wonderful? We overdevelop the earth and take away the habitat of all sorts of wild critters, some of whom, like geese, then have to forage wherever they can, and then we get aggravated when they swoop down on a farmer's field to steal a little grain. So the farmer calls some brave men with shotguns in, and they blast the geese to smithereens. It takes one brave man to shoot a goose, a duck or a deer. At least in fishing, one can catch and release. Not so easy to shoot and release, eh? Once in a while, I'll catch a glimpse of some "hunting show" in which a great white hunter will sit up in a tree with a gun or a bow and wait for a harmless critter to walk into range. Then the guy will blast it and practically get orgasmic when the animal falls over dead. What a thrill, eh? Bubba shot himself one of them there dangerous elk! What a man. You eat meat or you don't. It's just that simple. Paying a butcher to kill a critter for you works out the same way; you just loose the connection between something dying and you eating. It does not change the fact that you are eating animal flesh! Where do you suppose that pink chunk in the butchers showcase came from? Most of nature does not seem to have any problem with this - humans have enough food and spare time to get worked up about it. If it bothers you, don't kill and eat critters. And don't pay others to kill them in your name. Some people have come to terms with these facts and are happy carnivores - deal with it. Mark Browne PS Do you know how many animal parts are found in a box of cereal? Almost everything you eat is pretty gross while it is being made - if you could see how most of your food is made, you would not eat it! Mark, The sad fact is that, for whatever reason, some non-hunters assume a mantle of moral superiority over hunters. Because they don't kill their own food, the death of the animal becomes abstract to them. Psychologically, they absolve themselves of any connection to the fact that their food was once a living creature. "It's not cow flesh, it's a Delmonico steak, damnit! It says so on the package!" I am a hunter. Sometimes I kill my food. I repect wildlife, and take responsibility for the death of the animal. I hunt strictly within the laws, and apologise to no one. I don't care if someone thinks it is "sport" or not. It generally takes skill, patience, and much more effort than sitting at a keyboard moralizing and acting holier-than-thou. Not everyone rationalises their carnivorous eating habits this way, but some do. Others are simply contentious because "Off topic" posting in the group is under question, they are among the biggest off-topic posters, and they need to stir the pot. P.E.T.A. "People Eating Tasty Animals" noah |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
|
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I have never heard of anyone killing a deer and leaving them there. They
may poach an animal off season, but they always bring it home for the meat. Chris, sounds like he is allow his emotions to overwhelm his brain. Reminds me of most of Harry's posts. "noah" wrote in message ... On 06 Sep 2003 17:42:01 GMT, ospam (Chris) wrote: This doesn't even deserve a reply. ......BUT.... Look man, I *DON'T* just go out and aimlessly blast any wild animal that I see. If I want to augment my family's suppliment of food, and it happens to be turkey season, I will go out and get a turkey for us to eat. You eat turkey at Thansgiving, don't you? I don't know of any hunter friends of mine that go out and blast animals for the sport of it. There are rules and regulations, and a hunter can get heavily fined and maybe jailed for poaching. Butch Ammon If you look at what I wrote I was talking about those who kill animals for the fun of it, not for the purposes of food. If you like to kill your own food to save money or because you enjoy it I have no problem with that. I was talking about those who kill a deer or any animal and just leave it for dead, and plenty of people do that. Read more carefully next time. Chris Chris, I have hunted the better part of 40 years, and I know of no fellow hunter or "sportsman" who would kill an animal and "just leave it for dead". If you know of anyone like that, please report them to your State's wildlife office. If they are breaking the law, responsible hunters would be happy to see them jailed. In any leisure activity: boating, fishing, hunting, or even jet-skiing, it is the irresponsible dolt who casts a bad light on everyone else. noah |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I have never heard of anyone killing a deer and leaving them there. They
may poach an animal off season, but they always bring it home for the meat. Chris, sounds like he is allow his emotions to overwhelm his brain. Reminds me of most of Harry's posts So because YOU have not heard of hunters killing an animal and leaving it there then it doesn't happen? I know several people personally who have done such things many times. But I guess the fact that YOU don't know anyone who has means that I must be imagining things, these people I know simply do not really exist. These are the type of people I was referring to in my post, and as stated by others here, I think most responsible hunters would agree with my distaste for these people. Chris |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 07:35:36 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: Gould 0738 wrote: I don't exactly "shoot" deer, as in using a rifle - I don't own a rifle. But I have a big compound bow with 65 lbs of pull to it, and merely launch an arrow at a deer. It's more sporty that way - you have to get REAL CLOSE to a deer too. Yes, that does sound a little more sporting than blasting a 75-pound Bambi from 200 yards away using a high-powered rifle and scope. :-) Where's the "sport" part? Does Bambi shoot back? C'mon Harry. "Bambi" is a cartoon characterization of a deer fawn. That is where the similarities end. Your response is emotionally, not reality based. Ever eat "veal"? According to my handy-dandy Websters: "sport n. :1a a source of diversion. b. sexual play. c(1) physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) a particular activity (as hunting or an athletic game) so engaged in." If you have an emotional aversion to hunting, so be it. Don't make it sound like moral superiority, OK? A big part of the folly in this country comes from moral high-handedness. Don't join it, please. further: "sport fish n. a fish important for the sport it affords anglers." Let's not rehash what the meaning of the word "is" is. Regards, noah |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
jps wrote:
"noah" wrote in message ... Don, FWIW, laser sights and silencers are strictly illegal for any kind of hunting, and any responsible hunter would not think of using them even if they were legal. Also FWIW, if I am bird hunting (including waterfowl), I do not shoot them if they are "down". All shots are taken "in flight". Don't geese mate for life? Not when our hunterboys shoot down one of the pair. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
|
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:01:47 -0700, "jps" wrote:
"noah" wrote in message .. . Don, FWIW, laser sights and silencers are strictly illegal for any kind of hunting, and any responsible hunter would not think of using them even if they were legal. Also FWIW, if I am bird hunting (including waterfowl), I do not shoot them if they are "down". All shots are taken "in flight". Don't geese mate for life? I don't know about other varieties, but Canada geese do mate "for life", but if one mate dies, the other will take another mate. Nature takes it's course. FWIW, New York State has increased (doubled) the daily limit on Canada geese this year because there is an overpopulation. This will lead to starvation and increased disease if not controlled. So, hunters like me can have goose dinner, or we can watch them die slow deaths from other causes. Every state in the US uses hunting as one form of population control for wildlife. If there is a moral issue here, I would argue that it is more humane to kill and eat wildlife than it is to allow wide spread starvation and disease. I would also argue that it is not a moral issue, but an emotional one. The Canada goose and the whitetail deer are two animals that have "benefitted" from human development and destruction of natural habitats. With the loss of natural areas, natural predators (such as wolves and coyotes) have been decimated or eliminated. Both of these species eat grass and farm crops. With the expansion of human development, the populations can expand exponentially and cause significant problems. Hunting is one method of control. noah |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Chris,
No, I am not saying it does not happen, but I do believe it is a very small percentage. The post you made was: "I think they should be allowed to shoot each other without a permit. I also would not require deer to get permits to shoot the hunters either. If you kill an animal just for the fun (sport) of it, then the same should be done to you....period" Based upon that post, I think you allowed your emotions to overcome your brain. Do you think those who fish for Sport should have a hook placed in their lip and be dragged through the water? "Chris" wrote in message ... I have never heard of anyone killing a deer and leaving them there. They may poach an animal off season, but they always bring it home for the meat. Chris, sounds like he is allow his emotions to overwhelm his brain. Reminds me of most of Harry's posts So because YOU have not heard of hunters killing an animal and leaving it there then it doesn't happen? I know several people personally who have done such things many times. But I guess the fact that YOU don't know anyone who has means that I must be imagining things, these people I know simply do not really exist. These are the type of people I was referring to in my post, and as stated by others here, I think most responsible hunters would agree with my distaste for these people. Chris |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Noah,
Harry sees everything in black and white. If he likes it, it is good. If he doesn't like it and you do, you are evil. "noah" wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:06:25 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: jps wrote: "noah" wrote in message ... Don, FWIW, laser sights and silencers are strictly illegal for any kind of hunting, and any responsible hunter would not think of using them even if they were legal. Also FWIW, if I am bird hunting (including waterfowl), I do not shoot them if they are "down". All shots are taken "in flight". Don't geese mate for life? Not when our hunterboys shoot down one of the pair. Harry, I have never seen you react so emotionally, and illogically. I don't suppose that it would matter if I said that I love wildlife as much, or more, than you do. Are you familiar with hunting cultures? The respect I have is very similar to Native American respect and spirituality concerning the animals they killed, ate, and revered. I am beginning to see you in a different light. noah |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
noah wrote:
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:06:25 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: jps wrote: "noah" wrote in message ... Don, FWIW, laser sights and silencers are strictly illegal for any kind of hunting, and any responsible hunter would not think of using them even if they were legal. Also FWIW, if I am bird hunting (including waterfowl), I do not shoot them if they are "down". All shots are taken "in flight". Don't geese mate for life? Not when our hunterboys shoot down one of the pair. Harry, I have never seen you react so emotionally, and illogically. I don't suppose that it would matter if I said that I love wildlife as much, or more, than you do. Are you familiar with hunting cultures? The respect I have is very similar to Native American respect and spirituality concerning the animals they killed, ate, and revered. I am beginning to see you in a different light. noah You've totally missed my point, which is that I do not believe hunting is a sport. As for Native Americans of the 19th and earlier centuries, they hunted to survive. That's a bit different than a bunch of drunks with shotguns going out to a field where geese have landed and blasting the birds to kingdom come and thinking that "sport" has taken place. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I don't know about other varieties, but Canada geese do mate "for
life", but if one mate dies, the other will take another mate. Nature takes it's course. FWIW, New York State has increased (doubled) the daily limit on Canada geese this year because there is an overpopulation. This will lead to starvation and increased disease if not controlled. So, hunters like me can have goose dinner, or we can watch them die slow deaths from other causes. Every state in the US uses hunting as one form of population control for wildlife. If there is a moral issue here, I would argue that it is more humane to kill and eat wildlife than it is to allow wide spread starvation and disease. I would also argue that it is not a moral issue, but an emotional one. The Canada goose and the whitetail deer are two animals that have "benefitted" from human development and destruction of natural habitats. With the loss of natural areas, natural predators (such as wolves and coyotes) have been decimated or eliminated. Both of these species eat grass and farm crops. With the expansion of human development, the populations can expand exponentially and cause significant problems. Hunting is one method of control. noah Excellent post, Noah! :-) You took a page right out of the Virginia Dept of Game and Inland Fisheries (our local game warden's). There is a serious overabundance of Canadian Geese. A good majority of them no longer migrate, because of the "Bill & Buffy" type of people feed them bread crumbs at the local park! You have to dodge goose dropping when walking on the side walk of business developements. I have come home from playing golf with goose poop stuck all over the spikes of my golf shoes. Deer are getting hit by cars, because of the ever expanding suburbs in towns and cities. Fact: Last year's deer season on that military base (Fort A.P. Hill) here in Virginia, deer hunters took an estimated 1200 deer from the massive herd. Even with that many deer eliminated, they didn't even put a dent in the overpopulation! Butch Ammon |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
How is a bunch of drunks chumming the water and placing live bait on a hook
any more of sport? Harry, you are one of the biggest hypocrites I have seen in this ng. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... noah wrote: On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:06:25 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: jps wrote: "noah" wrote in message ... Don, FWIW, laser sights and silencers are strictly illegal for any kind of hunting, and any responsible hunter would not think of using them even if they were legal. Also FWIW, if I am bird hunting (including waterfowl), I do not shoot them if they are "down". All shots are taken "in flight". Don't geese mate for life? Not when our hunterboys shoot down one of the pair. Harry, I have never seen you react so emotionally, and illogically. I don't suppose that it would matter if I said that I love wildlife as much, or more, than you do. Are you familiar with hunting cultures? The respect I have is very similar to Native American respect and spirituality concerning the animals they killed, ate, and revered. I am beginning to see you in a different light. noah You've totally missed my point, which is that I do not believe hunting is a sport. As for Native Americans of the 19th and earlier centuries, they hunted to survive. That's a bit different than a bunch of drunks with shotguns going out to a field where geese have landed and blasting the birds to kingdom come and thinking that "sport" has taken place. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
How is a bunch of drunks chumming the water and placing live bait on a hook
any more of sport? Harry, you are one of the biggest hypocrites I have seen in this ng. ......And I take OFFENSE to the statement about a "bunch of drunks with shotguns going out into a field where geese have landed...." How DARE you!!!!!!! Hunters are now labelled alcoholics, huh? Listen, I don't drink and I don't smoke. All I bring into a duck blind or a tree stand, is a thermos of coffee. Easy now, okay?!? Butch Ammon |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:50:45 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: noah wrote: On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:06:25 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: jps wrote: "noah" wrote in message ... You've totally missed my point, which is that I do not believe hunting is a sport. As for Native Americans of the 19th and earlier centuries, they hunted to survive. That's a bit different than a bunch of drunks with shotguns going out to a field where geese have landed and blasting the birds to kingdom come and thinking that "sport" has taken place. What you have described is so far from my experience that I don't know how to respond. If you know such people, report them. If not, please don't spread malicious untruth. noah |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
The goal of propaganda is to spread malicious untruths in an effort to
demonize those you disagree with. Harry is not interested in the truth. "noah" wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:50:45 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: noah wrote: On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:06:25 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: jps wrote: "noah" wrote in message ... You've totally missed my point, which is that I do not believe hunting is a sport. As for Native Americans of the 19th and earlier centuries, they hunted to survive. That's a bit different than a bunch of drunks with shotguns going out to a field where geese have landed and blasting the birds to kingdom come and thinking that "sport" has taken place. What you have described is so far from my experience that I don't know how to respond. If you know such people, report them. If not, please don't spread malicious untruth. noah |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:50:45 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: noah wrote: On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:06:25 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: jps wrote: "noah" wrote in message ... Don, FWIW, laser sights and silencers are strictly illegal for any kind of hunting, and any responsible hunter would not think of using them even if they were legal. Also FWIW, if I am bird hunting (including waterfowl), I do not shoot them if they are "down". All shots are taken "in flight". Don't geese mate for life? Not when our hunterboys shoot down one of the pair. Harry, I have never seen you react so emotionally, and illogically. I don't suppose that it would matter if I said that I love wildlife as much, or more, than you do. Are you familiar with hunting cultures? The respect I have is very similar to Native American respect and spirituality concerning the animals they killed, ate, and revered. I am beginning to see you in a different light. noah You've totally missed my point, which is that I do not believe hunting is a sport. As for Native Americans of the 19th and earlier centuries, they hunted to survive. That's a bit different than a bunch of drunks with shotguns going out to a field where geese have landed and blasting the birds to kingdom come and thinking that "sport" has taken place. Harry, where do mute swans fall in your anti-hunting tirades? Should they be killed? Do you think hunters are hurting the Canada geese population? John On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD |
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