|
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
....is that, for starters, we often see aspects of people we'd be far better off
*not* seeing. Sure--it's easy to characterize them as "marina bar chat;" but that is NOT what much of this is. Is it really likely that there would be these kinds of acrimonious, polarizing discussions, replete with namecalling and speculation about personal habits and ancestry in an actual bar? Of course not! But the quasi-anonymity of Usenet seems often to give license for behavior that would be unnacceptable--and even dangerous--in real life. It's easy to say "just use your filters and shaddup" when people complain about these highly unpleasant (and invariably unproductive) threads; but just as people can't avoid slowing to gape at accidents on the freeway, people will continue to read these threads. And they'll get a certain impression of the newsgroup, just as they would if they went into a yacht club or marina bar and found many of the regulars involved in loud, bitter, interminable and pointless political discussions. For my part, when I see the namecalling and personal insults, the polarized thinking on both sides, it tends to give me a very unfavorable picture of ALL the participants--and if I were seeing that behavior in a yacht club or marina bar, I'd do a fast 180 and get out of there. I think the same thing happens on Usenet as happens in The Real World(tm)--people go where they feel comfortable, and where they feel they can contribute and receive value. Most of the time, in my observation, that's not happening here--even in spite of a number of regulars who keep trying to guide the conversation back to boating. I often wonder how many people here actually spend time on boats. I have kept my own political views (and they are views that I hold dear) out of this newsgroup--but if someone were to call me "light in the loafers" for being a Democrat, or a "fascist" for being a Republican, I'd immediately lose interest in any sort of participation here. I don't think I'm alone in that respect. Joe Parsons FWIW |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 00:26:37 GMT, Joe Parsons
wrote: ...is that, for starters, Joe Parsons FWIW Not bad Joe. Doesn't fit for everybody, but in general, yep. bb |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
- The "bar room" thing is just an anology, don't try to carry it too far. - The discussions are not just pointless. They show me how others think. Even when I disagree, I learn something. - If you dont' want to read the threads, don't. If you can't help yourself from "slowing down and gawking" don't blame others, help yourself. - I disagree that there is little or no boating value here. Post a boating story and plenty of people will comment or sympathize. Post a boating or boat question and there will be very helpful hints, tips, information, web-links, stories of similar experience, etc., etc. In the Pot-Kettel-Black department: why not mark your off topic post with "OT:" ?? Yes, the subject is pretty self-explanitory, but it is convention to mark subjects with "OT:" so people can easily filter for them. Gary |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Yea, I come here for boat information not to hear someone's political views.
I think those political people need to find alt.politics. "Joe Parsons" wrote in message ... ...is that, for starters, we often see aspects of people we'd be far better off *not* seeing. Sure--it's easy to characterize them as "marina bar chat;" but that is NOT what much of this is. Is it really likely that there would be these kinds of acrimonious, polarizing discussions, replete with namecalling and speculation about personal habits and ancestry in an actual bar? Of course not! But the quasi-anonymity of Usenet seems often to give license for behavior that would be unnacceptable--and even dangerous--in real life. It's easy to say "just use your filters and shaddup" when people complain about these highly unpleasant (and invariably unproductive) threads; but just as people can't avoid slowing to gape at accidents on the freeway, people will continue to read these threads. And they'll get a certain impression of the newsgroup, just as they would if they went into a yacht club or marina bar and found many of the regulars involved in loud, bitter, interminable and pointless political discussions. For my part, when I see the namecalling and personal insults, the polarized thinking on both sides, it tends to give me a very unfavorable picture of ALL the participants--and if I were seeing that behavior in a yacht club or marina bar, I'd do a fast 180 and get out of there. I think the same thing happens on Usenet as happens in The Real World(tm)--people go where they feel comfortable, and where they feel they can contribute and receive value. Most of the time, in my observation, that's not happening here--even in spite of a number of regulars who keep trying to guide the conversation back to boating. I often wonder how many people here actually spend time on boats. I have kept my own political views (and they are views that I hold dear) out of this newsgroup--but if someone were to call me "light in the loafers" for being a Democrat, or a "fascist" for being a Republican, I'd immediately lose interest in any sort of participation here. I don't think I'm alone in that respect. Joe Parsons FWIW |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:35:39 -0400, "Gary Warner" wrote:
- The "bar room" thing is just an anology, don't try to carry it too far. But it's the analogy that is most commonly used in this context. - The discussions are not just pointless. They show me how others think. Even when I disagree, I learn something. That's true--and my whole point is that one may learn enough about another person to view him with contempt. Reasoned--even heated--debate is just fine; it's energizing and often educational for both sides. But when the "debate" turns so quickly to gratuitous insults--and it invariably does--it says far too much about the combatants that one might like to know. Characterizing a "liberal" as a limp-wristed, light-in-the-loafers faggot; or a "conservative" as a fascist. Or displaying black-and-white, bigoted thinking--on *either* side of an argument. For me, it's just too much information--and I personally find it difficult to separate often valuable information (which is often scarce) from someone's despicable character traits, regardless of how his politics might play out. - If you dont' want to read the threads, don't. If you can't help yourself from "slowing down and gawking" don't blame others, help yourself. I'm quite able to set filters--even when the subject line is a moving target. But my concerns are not for my own sensibilities; rather, they are for the impression made on people subscribing for the first time. And the content--quality and quantity--in rec.boats is far less appealing now than it was, say, two years ago. - I disagree that there is little or no boating value here. Post a boating story and plenty of people will comment or sympathize. Post a boating or boat question and there will be very helpful hints, tips, information, web-links, stories of similar experience, etc., etc. In the Pot-Kettel-Black department: why not mark your off topic post with "OT:" ?? Yes, the subject is pretty self-explanitory, but it is convention to mark subjects with "OT:" so people can easily filter for them. As we've already discussed, many newsreaders strip out the OT: on follow-ups. OE is the most widely used newsreader here, and it behaves that way. Any Usenet newsgroup is a do-it-yourself deal. I just don't think the deal is being done as well as it should be. Joe Parsons |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Rec.boats isn't purely a spectator sport.
There is a disturbing lack of civility in many of the discussions, both OT and ON. That's a greater problem than the fact that the conversation drifts off topic. We have at least one poster who takes pride in the fact that he only comes here to cause trouble, and then immediately blames that on individuals holding opposite philosophical viewpoints. It is a bit puzzling how, so often, the people who post the loudest protests about the signal to noise ratio and the lack of significant boating content in the NG never contribute any boating content *to* the group. The content of the group is configured by what we all put in- what we take out or choose to filter has no effect on the overall character of the group. Aren't enough boating discussions? Start one. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Chuck,
Whomever said they come here to "start trouble" is just being honest. The majority of the regulars come here to argue their favorite cause and try to make their opponents looks foolish, ignorant of just to get his goat. The regulars who come here to discuss boating are few and far in-between, they have been chased away ages ago. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Rec.boats isn't purely a spectator sport. There is a disturbing lack of civility in many of the discussions, both OT and ON. That's a greater problem than the fact that the conversation drifts off topic. We have at least one poster who takes pride in the fact that he only comes here to cause trouble, and then immediately blames that on individuals holding opposite philosophical viewpoints. It is a bit puzzling how, so often, the people who post the loudest protests about the signal to noise ratio and the lack of significant boating content in the NG never contribute any boating content *to* the group. The content of the group is configured by what we all put in- what we take out or choose to filter has no effect on the overall character of the group. Aren't enough boating discussions? Start one. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Chuck,
Whomever said they come here to "start trouble" is just being honest. The majority of the regulars come here to argue their favorite cause and try to make their opponents looks foolish, ignorant of just to get his goat. The regulars who come here to discuss boating are few and far in-between, they have been chased away ages ago. Without going waaaay back, we're still runing a 3:1 ratio of on topic *threads* vs. off topic threads. Of the last 59 threads initiated in rec.boats, 45 had some direct relevance to boating and 14 did not. Problem is in the number of posts. Example: I.M. Uhground posts: "Where is the secondary fuel filter on my Spitz and Putz inboard?" Hal P Fulwrench replies: "Look under the second framus past the diogenator." End of thread, two posts. Example two: Left wing Louie posts: "Bush is a war criminal!" Right wing Rickie replies:"No, he's a hero and you liberals are all traitors........" And 450 posts follow. 225 from the right, 225 from the left, with insults and bad manners split equally between the pair. End of thread nowhere in sight....... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Rec.boats isn't purely a spectator sport. There is a disturbing lack of civility in many of the discussions, both OT and ON. That's a greater problem than the fact that the conversation drifts off topic. We have at least one poster who takes pride in the fact that he only comes here to cause trouble, and then immediately blames that on individuals holding opposite philosophical viewpoints. It is a bit puzzling how, so often, the people who post the loudest protests about the signal to noise ratio and the lack of significant boating content in the NG never contribute any boating content *to* the group. The content of the group is configured by what we all put in- what we take out or choose to filter has no effect on the overall character of the group. Aren't enough boating discussions? Start one. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have no
idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off topic threads. How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate? The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't start any. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
You know Chuck you act like you are a saint in this whole mess. And that is the
furthest thing from the truth. Granted, you post one or two boating related items, but the far majority of your posts are political. You and Harry have been involved in the mudslinging and OT political posts long before most of us have been here. Yes, I admitted I come here for the politics. I never said, however, that I come here to cause trouble and I challenge you to find where I said that....because I did not. Move out of that glass house before you start throwing stones. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have no idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off topic threads. How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate? The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't start any. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I am not complaining, I am making an observation. I have accepted the fact
that the NG is a venue to discuss politics and make rabid accusations concerning anyone who disagrees with your philosophy. If I was moderating a NG would I would not allow the personal attacks and the off topic political discussion, because it does nothing towards building a community. It's only purpose is to divide the community. But, this is not a moderated NG, so all I am doing is making the observation that the majority of the regulars come here to argue and call each other "trash". Do you disagree with my observation? "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have no idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off topic threads. How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate? The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't start any. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I am not complaining, I am making an observation. I have accepted the fact
that the NG is a venue to discuss politics and make rabid accusations concerning anyone who disagrees with your philosophy. If I was moderating a NG would I would not allow the personal attacks and the off topic political discussion, because it does nothing towards building a community. It's only purpose is to divide the community. But, this is not a moderated NG, so all I am doing is making the observation that the majority of the regulars come here to argue and call each other "trash". Do you disagree with my observation? I think you have a specific regular in mind when you use "trash" as the commonly exchanged offensive moniker. My frank opinion is that you are quicker to criticize the left leaning OT posters than the right. That has to be OK, since I am quicker to criticize the right leaners than the left. We should all be aware that our own bias usually shows through. I don't disagree entirely. I see redeeming value in most of the posters, from both (or all) sides of most issues provided they have a genuine interest in boats and boating. There have been several instances of posters who appear *only* to fire off anonymous flames and, when anybody calls them on this behavior they say "I could give a rip about boating, I'm only here because you have some GD liberals (or conservatives) that require my enlightened flaming." You can't have a viable boating NG if a large percentage of the participants don't own a boat, (or own a boat but never use it), and don't care aboat boating one way or the other. What are these people going to talk about? Certainly won't be boats or boating. Boaters have the option to post on topic or off. Non-boaters have nothing of substance to contribute on topic, beyond the "I'm looking for a boat and need opinions on.........." type of thread. Anybody who feels like a helpless victim of the NG content should consider bringing more on-topic ideas to the forum. One of the reasons you don't see more "pros" posting here is that the first time anybody in the engine business or brokerage business or accessory and supply business mentions a product or service that they perform and are therefore extremely familiar with, one of two or three "usual suspects" will get on that person's case about spamming the NG. Were you around when Dave Brown posted here? There's a good example. Very good outboard mechanic, and a gentleman. Everytime he said "boo" he was subjected to a relentless onslaught of flaming from an individual poster who had a low opinion of a brand of outboard motors he sold in his shop and who had a differing opinion of the technology associated with those engines. The flaming went well beyond the engine technology, with Dave's personal morals and ethics being challenged because he would dare sell such a "defective" product. He must have been called "spammer" a thousand times. One poster announced an intention to drive Dave Brown from the NG, and crowed about "victory" when it was finally accomplished. Even Peggie Hall has had to endure some harsh, mean spirited, criticism for offering advise on her areas of expertise. Has always been an odd double standard: If you work as a truck driver, radio repairman, shoe salesman, plant manager, or accountant, your opinion on some technical aspect of boating is welcomed by all. If you actually make a living in the field and dare to post anything based on your professional experience, expect to be loudly criticized for "spamming." "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have no idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off topic threads. How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate? The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't start any. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Chuck, it really is quite telling that you fail to mention (or cast any blame
on) the most prolific political poster (and flamer) here, namely your comrade Harry Krause. Is it equally telling that I didn't mention any of the other political posters by name? Regardless of individual political perspective? But Harry shares your views on politics and unions, so that would not be quite right, now would it Chuck? It's a conspiracy. :-) |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Chuck,
Your observations are accurate, while I used the word "trash" because it was in a post I had just read, the insults and name calling are equal on both sides of the aisle. You would have to agree that the person who likes to call people "trash" is one of the more rabid regulars. He may occasionally post a boating thread, he may contribute to a boating thread every now and then, but as he has admitted his real reason for posting here is to put down the right wing trash who come here. There is nothing you and I can do to stop this, there are too many people who enjoy this blood sport. It is the reason most of the regulars read rec.boats. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... I am not complaining, I am making an observation. I have accepted the fact that the NG is a venue to discuss politics and make rabid accusations concerning anyone who disagrees with your philosophy. If I was moderating a NG would I would not allow the personal attacks and the off topic political discussion, because it does nothing towards building a community. It's only purpose is to divide the community. But, this is not a moderated NG, so all I am doing is making the observation that the majority of the regulars come here to argue and call each other "trash". Do you disagree with my observation? I think you have a specific regular in mind when you use "trash" as the commonly exchanged offensive moniker. My frank opinion is that you are quicker to criticize the left leaning OT posters than the right. That has to be OK, since I am quicker to criticize the right leaners than the left. We should all be aware that our own bias usually shows through. I don't disagree entirely. I see redeeming value in most of the posters, from both (or all) sides of most issues provided they have a genuine interest in boats and boating. There have been several instances of posters who appear *only* to fire off anonymous flames and, when anybody calls them on this behavior they say "I could give a rip about boating, I'm only here because you have some GD liberals (or conservatives) that require my enlightened flaming." You can't have a viable boating NG if a large percentage of the participants don't own a boat, (or own a boat but never use it), and don't care aboat boating one way or the other. What are these people going to talk about? Certainly won't be boats or boating. Boaters have the option to post on topic or off. Non-boaters have nothing of substance to contribute on topic, beyond the "I'm looking for a boat and need opinions on.........." type of thread. Anybody who feels like a helpless victim of the NG content should consider bringing more on-topic ideas to the forum. One of the reasons you don't see more "pros" posting here is that the first time anybody in the engine business or brokerage business or accessory and supply business mentions a product or service that they perform and are therefore extremely familiar with, one of two or three "usual suspects" will get on that person's case about spamming the NG. Were you around when Dave Brown posted here? There's a good example. Very good outboard mechanic, and a gentleman. Everytime he said "boo" he was subjected to a relentless onslaught of flaming from an individual poster who had a low opinion of a brand of outboard motors he sold in his shop and who had a differing opinion of the technology associated with those engines. The flaming went well beyond the engine technology, with Dave's personal morals and ethics being challenged because he would dare sell such a "defective" product. He must have been called "spammer" a thousand times. One poster announced an intention to drive Dave Brown from the NG, and crowed about "victory" when it was finally accomplished. Even Peggie Hall has had to endure some harsh, mean spirited, criticism for offering advise on her areas of expertise. Has always been an odd double standard: If you work as a truck driver, radio repairman, shoe salesman, plant manager, or accountant, your opinion on some technical aspect of boating is welcomed by all. If you actually make a living in the field and dare to post anything based on your professional experience, expect to be loudly criticized for "spamming." "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have no idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off topic threads. How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate? The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't start any. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Yes, I admitted I come here for the politics. I never said, however, that I
come here to cause trouble and I challenge you to find where I said that....because I did not. To paraphrase Carly Simon: You're so vain, you probably think each post is about you........ Challenge back to you. Where did I say that "Jim stated he is only here to cause trouble"? Without that, your concern is completely ridiculous. I don't recall mentioning you by name at all. What makes you think I was even referring to you? Why would I? You know Chuck you act like you are a saint in this whole mess. And that is the furthest thing from the truth. Granted, you post one or two boating related items, but the far majority of your posts are political. You and Harry have been involved in the mudslinging and OT political posts long before most of us have been here. I don't sling much mud, and whatever direction the NG takes is up to the majority of participants. It isn't determined by one or two people. Personally, if you want to talk boats, I can participate in most discussions (except I don't know much about outboards, sailing, carbs, and a few other subjects). If you want to talk politics, I can do that too. For every Yin there's a Yang. Blaming the political threads solely on the left or the right is ridiculous. Follow one through- typically goes l,r,l,r,l,r,l,r,l,r, etc. Only difference most of the time is who goes first, and over the long run that tends to be about 50/50. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 05:36:36 GMT, WaIIy wrote:
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 00:26:37 GMT, Joe Parsons wrote: I have kept my own political views (and they are views that I hold dear) out of this newsgroup--but if someone were to call me "light in the loafers" for being a Democrat, or a "fascist" for being a Republican, I'd immediately lose interest in any sort of participation here. I don't think I'm alone in that respect. Joe Parsons FWIW You are not alone. Around our marina, politics are spoken about very little. Dissention is left away from our boats. I spent the long weekend at the Stockton (CA) Yacht Club with our yacht club. I got into a "political" discussion over a beer or seven with a long-time member who's far away from me in his politics. As our discussion intensified (and got louder), we stopped, looked at each other and burst out laughing. We *knew* we wouldn't change each other's mind--but we realized that we were beginning to lose sight of the fact that we were there to enjoy the river, the boats, the company and the beer. I've found that face-to-face conversations have certain "safety valves" that can keep debates/arguments from getting too unpleasant. Usenet, with its quasi-anonymity and lack of face-to-face contact, doesn't. Joe Parsons |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Yes, I admitted I come here for the politics. I never said, however, that I come here to cause trouble and I challenge you to find where I said that....because I did not. To paraphrase Carly Simon: You're so vain, you probably think each post is about you........ Challenge back to you. Where did I say that "Jim stated he is only here to cause trouble"? Without that, your concern is completely ridiculous. I don't recall mentioning you by name at all. What makes you think I was even referring to you? Why would I? Yeah, you were sure to originally phrase it so you had an out. You took it. Nice move Chuck. You know Chuck you act like you are a saint in this whole mess. And that is the furthest thing from the truth. Granted, you post one or two boating related items, but the far majority of your posts are political. You and Harry have been involved in the mudslinging and OT political posts long before most of us have been here. I don't sling much mud, and whatever direction the NG takes is up to the majority of participants. It isn't determined by one or two people. Personally, if you want to talk boats, I can participate in most discussions (except I don't know much about outboards, sailing, carbs, and a few other subjects). If you want to talk politics, I can do that too. For every Yin there's a Yang. Blaming the political threads solely on the left or the right is ridiculous. Follow one through- typically goes l,r,l,r,l,r,l,r,l,r, etc. Only difference most of the time is who goes first, and over the long run that tends to be about 50/50. Where did I blame the political threads solely on the left or the right? I blamed you for throwing stones in your glass house. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 00:26:37 GMT, Joe Parsons
wrote: ...is that, for starters, we often see aspects of people we'd be far better off *not* seeing. Sure--it's easy to characterize them as "marina bar chat;" but that is NOT what much of this is. Is it really likely that there would be these kinds of acrimonious, polarizing discussions, replete with namecalling and speculation about personal habits and ancestry in an actual bar? Of course not! But the quasi-anonymity of Usenet seems often to give license for behavior that would be unnacceptable--and even dangerous--in real life. It's easy to say "just use your filters and shaddup" when people complain about these highly unpleasant (and invariably unproductive) threads; but just as people can't avoid slowing to gape at accidents on the freeway, people will continue to read these threads. And they'll get a certain impression of the newsgroup, just as they would if they went into a yacht club or marina bar and found many of the regulars involved in loud, bitter, interminable and pointless political discussions. For my part, when I see the namecalling and personal insults, the polarized thinking on both sides, it tends to give me a very unfavorable picture of ALL the participants--and if I were seeing that behavior in a yacht club or marina bar, I'd do a fast 180 and get out of there. I think the same thing happens on Usenet as happens in The Real World(tm)--people go where they feel comfortable, and where they feel they can contribute and receive value. Most of the time, in my observation, that's not happening here--even in spite of a number of regulars who keep trying to guide the conversation back to boating. I often wonder how many people here actually spend time on boats. I have kept my own political views (and they are views that I hold dear) out of this newsgroup--but if someone were to call me "light in the loafers" for being a Democrat, or a "fascist" for being a Republican, I'd immediately lose interest in any sort of participation here. I don't think I'm alone in that respect. Joe Parsons FWIW Joe, I respect that opinion. noah |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
|
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:37:24 GMT, Joe Parsons
wrote: On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 05:36:36 GMT, WaIIy wrote: On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 00:26:37 GMT, Joe Parsons wrote: I have kept my own political views (and they are views that I hold dear) out of this newsgroup--but if someone were to call me "light in the loafers" for being a Democrat, or a "fascist" for being a Republican, I'd immediately lose interest in any sort of participation here. I don't think I'm alone in that respect. Joe Parsons FWIW You are not alone. Around our marina, politics are spoken about very little. Dissention is left away from our boats. I spent the long weekend at the Stockton (CA) Yacht Club with our yacht club. I got into a "political" discussion over a beer or seven with a long-time member who's far away from me in his politics. As our discussion intensified (and got louder), we stopped, looked at each other and burst out laughing. We *knew* we wouldn't change each other's mind--but we realized that we were beginning to lose sight of the fact that we were there to enjoy the river, the boats, the company and the beer. I've found that face-to-face conversations have certain "safety valves" that can keep debates/arguments from getting too unpleasant. Usenet, with its quasi-anonymity and lack of face-to-face contact, doesn't. Joe Parsons Amen? I'll buy the next round. noah |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I have kept my own political views (and they are views that I hold dear) out
of this newsgroup--but if someone were to call me "light in the loafers" for being a Democrat, or a "fascist" for being a Republican, I'd immediately lose interest in any sort of participation here. I don't think I'm alone in that respect. Joe Parsons FWIW Joe, I respect that opinion. noah ....Sounds exactly how I feel too! I have stepped away from this NG more than a few times. My interest is freshwater lake boating and try to see where I would fit in. I have drifted off topic a few times as well (guily as charged...) and mentioned my beliefs and political opinions once and got ripped to shreds by a few people. Like, I'm some horrible evil creature because: * I am a moderate, conservative, middle of the road republican. * I am an outdoorsman, fisherman, hunter, etc... * Heck, I go to a Presbyterian church on occasion too. Does that make me a bad person? Let's get back to boating and enjoying the outdoors on the water. Butch Ammon |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't
start any. I disagree. I **look** for newbie posts, to see if I can help somebody out. If I can, or think I can, I respond. About 1 in 1000, I start a thread, and only the boaters respond: which is OK by me. rec.boats.lounge noah Fine, but are you then complaining about a lack of on-topic threads? I don't maintain that everybody has to start on-topic threads, but it does seem inconsistent that manyh people who virtually never begin an on-topic thread then complain about a lack of same. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:38:46 GMT, "Bill Cole"
wrote: Chuck, Your observations are accurate, while I used the word "trash" because it was in a post I had just read, the insults and name calling are equal on both sides of the aisle. You would have to agree that the person who likes to call people "trash" is one of the more rabid regulars. He may occasionally post a boating thread, he may contribute to a boating thread every now and then, but as he has admitted his real reason for posting here is to put down the right wing trash who come here. There is nothing you and I can do to stop this, Yes, there is. there are too many people who enjoy this blood sport. It is the reason most of the regulars read rec.boats. rec.boats.bloodsport? It's not that hard to set up a group. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... I am not complaining, I am making an observation. I have accepted the fact that the NG is a venue to discuss politics and make rabid accusations concerning anyone who disagrees with your philosophy. If I was moderating a NG would I would not allow the personal attacks and the off topic political discussion, because it does nothing towards building a community. It's only purpose is to divide the community. But, this is not a moderated NG, so all I am doing is making the observation that the majority of the regulars come here to argue and call each other "trash". Do you disagree with my observation? I think you have a specific regular in mind when you use "trash" as the commonly exchanged offensive moniker. My frank opinion is that you are quicker to criticize the left leaning OT posters than the right. That has to be OK, since I am quicker to criticize the right leaners than the left. We should all be aware that our own bias usually shows through. I don't disagree entirely. I see redeeming value in most of the posters, from both (or all) sides of most issues provided they have a genuine interest in boats and boating. There have been several instances of posters who appear *only* to fire off anonymous flames and, when anybody calls them on this behavior they say "I could give a rip about boating, I'm only here because you have some GD liberals (or conservatives) that require my enlightened flaming." You can't have a viable boating NG if a large percentage of the participants don't own a boat, (or own a boat but never use it), and don't care aboat boating one way or the other. What are these people going to talk about? Certainly won't be boats or boating. Boaters have the option to post on topic or off. Non-boaters have nothing of substance to contribute on topic, beyond the "I'm looking for a boat and need opinions on.........." type of thread. Anybody who feels like a helpless victim of the NG content should consider bringing more on-topic ideas to the forum. One of the reasons you don't see more "pros" posting here is that the first time anybody in the engine business or brokerage business or accessory and supply business mentions a product or service that they perform and are therefore extremely familiar with, one of two or three "usual suspects" will get on that person's case about spamming the NG. Were you around when Dave Brown posted here? There's a good example. Very good outboard mechanic, and a gentleman. Everytime he said "boo" he was subjected to a relentless onslaught of flaming from an individual poster who had a low opinion of a brand of outboard motors he sold in his shop and who had a differing opinion of the technology associated with those engines. The flaming went well beyond the engine technology, with Dave's personal morals and ethics being challenged because he would dare sell such a "defective" product. He must have been called "spammer" a thousand times. One poster announced an intention to drive Dave Brown from the NG, and crowed about "victory" when it was finally accomplished. Even Peggie Hall has had to endure some harsh, mean spirited, criticism for offering advise on her areas of expertise. Has always been an odd double standard: If you work as a truck driver, radio repairman, shoe salesman, plant manager, or accountant, your opinion on some technical aspect of boating is welcomed by all. If you actually make a living in the field and dare to post anything based on your professional experience, expect to be loudly criticized for "spamming." "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have no idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off topic threads. How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate? The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't start any. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
noah,
You can stop posting, you can stop reading, you can point out how stupid it is to use rec.boats to discuss politics, you can use a filter, it does not matter. The people who enjoy using rec.boats as a mud pit will continue. If you have not figured this out yet, you eventually will. While the name of the group is rec.boats, that was just the reason why people started reading the NG, the regulars are here to fight, to call names, to act like fools. Chuck is one of the more reasonable regulars, but when he is reasonable his posts are ignored. If he makes a post that says George Bush is an idiot, it is guaranteed to generate a 200 plus responses. You may not like my message, but don't shoot me, I am only the messenger. "noah" wrote in message ... On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:38:46 GMT, "Bill Cole" wrote: Chuck, Your observations are accurate, while I used the word "trash" because it was in a post I had just read, the insults and name calling are equal on both sides of the aisle. You would have to agree that the person who likes to call people "trash" is one of the more rabid regulars. He may occasionally post a boating thread, he may contribute to a boating thread every now and then, but as he has admitted his real reason for posting here is to put down the right wing trash who come here. There is nothing you and I can do to stop this, Yes, there is. there are too many people who enjoy this blood sport. It is the reason most of the regulars read rec.boats. rec.boats.bloodsport? It's not that hard to set up a group. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... I am not complaining, I am making an observation. I have accepted the fact that the NG is a venue to discuss politics and make rabid accusations concerning anyone who disagrees with your philosophy. If I was moderating a NG would I would not allow the personal attacks and the off topic political discussion, because it does nothing towards building a community. It's only purpose is to divide the community. But, this is not a moderated NG, so all I am doing is making the observation that the majority of the regulars come here to argue and call each other "trash". Do you disagree with my observation? I think you have a specific regular in mind when you use "trash" as the commonly exchanged offensive moniker. My frank opinion is that you are quicker to criticize the left leaning OT posters than the right. That has to be OK, since I am quicker to criticize the right leaners than the left. We should all be aware that our own bias usually shows through. I don't disagree entirely. I see redeeming value in most of the posters, from both (or all) sides of most issues provided they have a genuine interest in boats and boating. There have been several instances of posters who appear *only* to fire off anonymous flames and, when anybody calls them on this behavior they say "I could give a rip about boating, I'm only here because you have some GD liberals (or conservatives) that require my enlightened flaming." You can't have a viable boating NG if a large percentage of the participants don't own a boat, (or own a boat but never use it), and don't care aboat boating one way or the other. What are these people going to talk about? Certainly won't be boats or boating. Boaters have the option to post on topic or off. Non-boaters have nothing of substance to contribute on topic, beyond the "I'm looking for a boat and need opinions on.........." type of thread. Anybody who feels like a helpless victim of the NG content should consider bringing more on-topic ideas to the forum. One of the reasons you don't see more "pros" posting here is that the first time anybody in the engine business or brokerage business or accessory and supply business mentions a product or service that they perform and are therefore extremely familiar with, one of two or three "usual suspects" will get on that person's case about spamming the NG. Were you around when Dave Brown posted here? There's a good example. Very good outboard mechanic, and a gentleman. Everytime he said "boo" he was subjected to a relentless onslaught of flaming from an individual poster who had a low opinion of a brand of outboard motors he sold in his shop and who had a differing opinion of the technology associated with those engines. The flaming went well beyond the engine technology, with Dave's personal morals and ethics being challenged because he would dare sell such a "defective" product. He must have been called "spammer" a thousand times. One poster announced an intention to drive Dave Brown from the NG, and crowed about "victory" when it was finally accomplished. Even Peggie Hall has had to endure some harsh, mean spirited, criticism for offering advise on her areas of expertise. Has always been an odd double standard: If you work as a truck driver, radio repairman, shoe salesman, plant manager, or accountant, your opinion on some technical aspect of boating is welcomed by all. If you actually make a living in the field and dare to post anything based on your professional experience, expect to be loudly criticized for "spamming." "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have no idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off topic threads. How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate? The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't start any. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 01:08:43 GMT, "Bill Cole"
wrote: noah, You can stop posting, you can stop reading, you can point out how stupid it is to use rec.boats to discuss politics, you can use a filter, it does not matter. The people who enjoy using rec.boats as a mud pit will continue. If you have not figured this out yet, you eventually will. While the name of the group is rec.boats, that was just the reason why people started reading the NG, the regulars are here to fight, to call names, to act like fools. Chuck is one of the more reasonable regulars, but when he is reasonable his posts are ignored. If he makes a post that says George Bush is an idiot, it is guaranteed to generate a 200 plus responses. You may not like my message, but don't shoot me, I am only the messenger. Shoot you? Never!! My question was simply an open one, Bill. Is rec.boats being whored so that self-involved people have a political soap-box and anti-social outlet? Dr. Ruth or Dr. Phil could staighten this out between commercials. YOU ALL NEED TO GET LAID!!! Believe it or not, ANYONES reasonable posts are not ignored, but a lot of people interested in boating just "move on". They don't want, and don't have to, wade through this stuff. Read the threads. Anyone can **** in a well, but then the water doesn't taste very good afterwards. rec.boats is a well. noah "noah" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:38:46 GMT, "Bill Cole" wrote: Chuck, Your observations are accurate, while I used the word "trash" because it was in a post I had just read, the insults and name calling are equal on both sides of the aisle. You would have to agree that the person who likes to call people "trash" is one of the more rabid regulars. He may occasionally post a boating thread, he may contribute to a boating thread every now and then, but as he has admitted his real reason for posting here is to put down the right wing trash who come here. There is nothing you and I can do to stop this, Yes, there is. there are too many people who enjoy this blood sport. It is the reason most of the regulars read rec.boats. rec.boats.bloodsport? It's not that hard to set up a group. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... I am not complaining, I am making an observation. I have accepted the fact that the NG is a venue to discuss politics and make rabid accusations concerning anyone who disagrees with your philosophy. If I was moderating a NG would I would not allow the personal attacks and the off topic political discussion, because it does nothing towards building a community. It's only purpose is to divide the community. But, this is not a moderated NG, so all I am doing is making the observation that the majority of the regulars come here to argue and call each other "trash". Do you disagree with my observation? I think you have a specific regular in mind when you use "trash" as the commonly exchanged offensive moniker. My frank opinion is that you are quicker to criticize the left leaning OT posters than the right. That has to be OK, since I am quicker to criticize the right leaners than the left. We should all be aware that our own bias usually shows through. I don't disagree entirely. I see redeeming value in most of the posters, from both (or all) sides of most issues provided they have a genuine interest in boats and boating. There have been several instances of posters who appear *only* to fire off anonymous flames and, when anybody calls them on this behavior they say "I could give a rip about boating, I'm only here because you have some GD liberals (or conservatives) that require my enlightened flaming." You can't have a viable boating NG if a large percentage of the participants don't own a boat, (or own a boat but never use it), and don't care aboat boating one way or the other. What are these people going to talk about? Certainly won't be boats or boating. Boaters have the option to post on topic or off. Non-boaters have nothing of substance to contribute on topic, beyond the "I'm looking for a boat and need opinions on.........." type of thread. Anybody who feels like a helpless victim of the NG content should consider bringing more on-topic ideas to the forum. One of the reasons you don't see more "pros" posting here is that the first time anybody in the engine business or brokerage business or accessory and supply business mentions a product or service that they perform and are therefore extremely familiar with, one of two or three "usual suspects" will get on that person's case about spamming the NG. Were you around when Dave Brown posted here? There's a good example. Very good outboard mechanic, and a gentleman. Everytime he said "boo" he was subjected to a relentless onslaught of flaming from an individual poster who had a low opinion of a brand of outboard motors he sold in his shop and who had a differing opinion of the technology associated with those engines. The flaming went well beyond the engine technology, with Dave's personal morals and ethics being challenged because he would dare sell such a "defective" product. He must have been called "spammer" a thousand times. One poster announced an intention to drive Dave Brown from the NG, and crowed about "victory" when it was finally accomplished. Even Peggie Hall has had to endure some harsh, mean spirited, criticism for offering advise on her areas of expertise. Has always been an odd double standard: If you work as a truck driver, radio repairman, shoe salesman, plant manager, or accountant, your opinion on some technical aspect of boating is welcomed by all. If you actually make a living in the field and dare to post anything based on your professional experience, expect to be loudly criticized for "spamming." "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have no idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off topic threads. How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate? The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't start any. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Where did I blame the political threads solely on the left or the right?
When you said that Gould, Harry, and jps had screwed up the newsgroup? When you said that liberals brought "filth and disrespect" to this public forum? I blamed you for throwing stones in your glass house. Jim, I'll proudly compare my ratio of personal attacks and insults vs. civil discussion with your own, any day. Why do you try to make this personal all the time? It isn't. You're nothing in my life- a (constantly changing, often bogus) name on a screen. I should be nothing in yours. Discussions should center on ideas, not the imagined personal defects of people we don't know and will never meet. IMO. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
|
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Where did I blame the political threads solely on the left or the right? When you said that Gould, Harry, and jps had screwed up the newsgroup? When you said that liberals brought "filth and disrespect" to this public forum? And I was wrong? I blamed you for throwing stones in your glass house. Jim, I'll proudly compare my ratio of personal attacks and insults vs. civil discussion with your own, any day. You have been posting here far longer than me. Anyone can see your noise to signal ratio is quite high. At least I have been honest about it. Your approach has been.."Who, me?" Regardless, you were the one claiming innocence in this whole thing when it was likely you and Harry that brought it on (the demise of the NG). Why do you try to make this personal all the time? I did not. You did. Glass house = no stones thrown. Got it? |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
|
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
...Sounds exactly how I feel too! I have stepped away from this NG more
than a few times. My interest is freshwater lake boating and try to see where I would fit in. I have drifted off topic a few times as well (guily as charged...) and mentioned my beliefs and political opinions once and got ripped to shreds by a few people. Like, I'm some horrible evil creature because: * I am a moderate, conservative, middle of the road republican. * I am an outdoorsman, fisherman, hunter, etc... * Heck, I go to a Presbyterian church on occasion too. Does that make me a bad person? Let's get back to boating and enjoying the outdoors on the water. Butch Ammon Butch- I have always enjoyed your posts, and pictures. The group may, or may not, change, but I hope you'll continue to post here. You seem to love boats, and so do I. Exactly. I'm happy in a small 12' aluminum fishing boat with a 6hp OB, just as I would be happy out on the Chesapeake in a 36' cruiser. Heck, I'd be happy paddling a canoe on a quiet pond or river somewhere. I'm thinking of buying a "mud motor" for my jon boat for duck hunting, and nobody in my area knows anything about them. I also just bought a '30-.06 Browning auto for deer season. Haven't hunted deer from a boat in years. :o) ...just kidding about the boat... That's cool about the 30-06! I don't own a high power rifle, but have a nice PSE compound bow all setup and ready for deer season. My Remington 870 12GA is all set for early goose season, and I'm going to meet up with a bunch of guys on a 300 acre farm hopefully this weekend or next week. Word has it the farmer has about 1000 Canadian geese landing in his fields and trashing the place and pooping all over. He put the word out: "Come get these darn things off my farm!". The guys and myself all responded, "Sure thing. Say the word, and we're there to help, er, uh, "alleviate" the overabundance of geese. This group, for the years that I have been here, is good. You might need to sort through the fertilizer. My belief is that politics does not matter when you turn the key, and the damned thing starts. It's all good after that. Thanks for the reply. noah Hey, anytime... I have my AOL newsreader filters setup to filter out "OT" stuff and a few others. Take care. Butch Ammon |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
And I was wrong?
Sorry, that's a different question. You asked, "When did I blame the OT posts solely on the left or the right?" When I provide a factual answer, switching the question is a weak tactic. You have been posting here far longer than me. Anyone can see your noise to signal ratio is quite high. At least I have been honest about it. Your approach has been.."Who, me?" Regardless, you were the one claiming innocence in this whole thing when it was likely you and Harry that brought it on (the demise of the NG). Likely? What happened to certainly? But if you think something is screwed up, just look for the closest liberal and point fingers, right? I don't claim "innocence." I claim, with justification, to refrain from cheap shot name calling moreso than most. Why do you try to make this personal all the time? I did not. You did. No, not true. You are the party posting comments in the newsgroup specifically evaluating, by name, your impressions of other parties' behavior. You are the individual who makes indirect third party comments about "old Chuck this, and old Chuck that...." in other threads. My failure to respond in kind doesn't mean that I don't hold an opinion of you, just that it isn't important when discussing the subjects at hand. Trot out the best ideas you've got. But we'll all be better off if you leave the flames and insults at home. True, there are others here who flame repeatedly. You have expressed your disdain for that behavior. Why then, would you choose to emulate it? Who knows, "with enough work, you just might come around." :-) |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
The people who come here to discuss politics, religion, abortion or who "yo
momma" did last night, understand that they are chasing away those who come here to discuss boats. All of this boat discussion distracts the regulars from their real reason for coming here, By the way, did I tell you recently that you are a "stupid liar" and a hatemonger, whose political beliefs are right wing communism? ; ) "noah" wrote in message ... On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 01:08:43 GMT, "Bill Cole" wrote: noah, You can stop posting, you can stop reading, you can point out how stupid it is to use rec.boats to discuss politics, you can use a filter, it does not matter. The people who enjoy using rec.boats as a mud pit will continue. If you have not figured this out yet, you eventually will. While the name of the group is rec.boats, that was just the reason why people started reading the NG, the regulars are here to fight, to call names, to act like fools. Chuck is one of the more reasonable regulars, but when he is reasonable his posts are ignored. If he makes a post that says George Bush is an idiot, it is guaranteed to generate a 200 plus responses. You may not like my message, but don't shoot me, I am only the messenger. Shoot you? Never!! My question was simply an open one, Bill. Is rec.boats being whored so that self-involved people have a political soap-box and anti-social outlet? Dr. Ruth or Dr. Phil could staighten this out between commercials. YOU ALL NEED TO GET LAID!!! Believe it or not, ANYONES reasonable posts are not ignored, but a lot of people interested in boating just "move on". They don't want, and don't have to, wade through this stuff. Read the threads. Anyone can **** in a well, but then the water doesn't taste very good afterwards. rec.boats is a well. noah "noah" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:38:46 GMT, "Bill Cole" wrote: Chuck, Your observations are accurate, while I used the word "trash" because it was in a post I had just read, the insults and name calling are equal on both sides of the aisle. You would have to agree that the person who likes to call people "trash" is one of the more rabid regulars. He may occasionally post a boating thread, he may contribute to a boating thread every now and then, but as he has admitted his real reason for posting here is to put down the right wing trash who come here. There is nothing you and I can do to stop this, Yes, there is. there are too many people who enjoy this blood sport. It is the reason most of the regulars read rec.boats. rec.boats.bloodsport? It's not that hard to set up a group. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... I am not complaining, I am making an observation. I have accepted the fact that the NG is a venue to discuss politics and make rabid accusations concerning anyone who disagrees with your philosophy. If I was moderating a NG would I would not allow the personal attacks and the off topic political discussion, because it does nothing towards building a community. It's only purpose is to divide the community. But, this is not a moderated NG, so all I am doing is making the observation that the majority of the regulars come here to argue and call each other "trash". Do you disagree with my observation? I think you have a specific regular in mind when you use "trash" as the commonly exchanged offensive moniker. My frank opinion is that you are quicker to criticize the left leaning OT posters than the right. That has to be OK, since I am quicker to criticize the right leaners than the left. We should all be aware that our own bias usually shows through. I don't disagree entirely. I see redeeming value in most of the posters, from both (or all) sides of most issues provided they have a genuine interest in boats and boating. There have been several instances of posters who appear *only* to fire off anonymous flames and, when anybody calls them on this behavior they say "I could give a rip about boating, I'm only here because you have some GD liberals (or conservatives) that require my enlightened flaming." You can't have a viable boating NG if a large percentage of the participants don't own a boat, (or own a boat but never use it), and don't care aboat boating one way or the other. What are these people going to talk about? Certainly won't be boats or boating. Boaters have the option to post on topic or off. Non-boaters have nothing of substance to contribute on topic, beyond the "I'm looking for a boat and need opinions on.........." type of thread. Anybody who feels like a helpless victim of the NG content should consider bringing more on-topic ideas to the forum. One of the reasons you don't see more "pros" posting here is that the first time anybody in the engine business or brokerage business or accessory and supply business mentions a product or service that they perform and are therefore extremely familiar with, one of two or three "usual suspects" will get on that person's case about spamming the NG. Were you around when Dave Brown posted here? There's a good example. Very good outboard mechanic, and a gentleman. Everytime he said "boo" he was subjected to a relentless onslaught of flaming from an individual poster who had a low opinion of a brand of outboard motors he sold in his shop and who had a differing opinion of the technology associated with those engines. The flaming went well beyond the engine technology, with Dave's personal morals and ethics being challenged because he would dare sell such a "defective" product. He must have been called "spammer" a thousand times. One poster announced an intention to drive Dave Brown from the NG, and crowed about "victory" when it was finally accomplished. Even Peggie Hall has had to endure some harsh, mean spirited, criticism for offering advise on her areas of expertise. Has always been an odd double standard: If you work as a truck driver, radio repairman, shoe salesman, plant manager, or accountant, your opinion on some technical aspect of boating is welcomed by all. If you actually make a living in the field and dare to post anything based on your professional experience, expect to be loudly criticized for "spamming." "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have no idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off topic threads. How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate? The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't start any. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Once I got to my spot, behind a small island, I heard the "first
flight" honking it's way down the river behind me, and popped the leader. Small pleasures keep the idiots happy. :o) I've never hunted goose in a field, but it sounds like less work and more fun. Enjoy! noah Hey Noah, Goose hunting in a farmers field is way better than on water from a boat. Instead of a dozen or so geese flying in, you'll see 100-200 geese on a field! They are everywhere and just standing around, eating up crops and pieces of corn kernels and creating a nuisance not to mention a mess to the field. Take care. Butch Ammon |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Butch Ammon wrote:
Once I got to my spot, behind a small island, I heard the "first flight" honking it's way down the river behind me, and popped the leader. Small pleasures keep the idiots happy. :o) I've never hunted goose in a field, but it sounds like less work and more fun. Enjoy! noah Hey Noah, Goose hunting in a farmers field is way better than on water from a boat. Instead of a dozen or so geese flying in, you'll see 100-200 geese on a field! They are everywhere and just standing around, eating up crops and pieces of corn kernels and creating a nuisance not to mention a mess to the field. Take care. Butch Ammon It's sad to watch you devolve, Butch, truly it is. It takes a truly brave man to shoot a goose. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Butch Ammon wrote: Once I got to my spot, behind a small island, I heard the "first flight" honking it's way down the river behind me, and popped the leader. Small pleasures keep the idiots happy. :o) I've never hunted goose in a field, but it sounds like less work and more fun. Enjoy! noah Hey Noah, Goose hunting in a farmers field is way better than on water from a boat. Instead of a dozen or so geese flying in, you'll see 100-200 geese on a field! They are everywhere and just standing around, eating up crops and pieces of corn kernels and creating a nuisance not to mention a mess to the field. Take care. Butch Ammon It's sad to watch you devolve, Butch, truly it is. It takes a truly brave man to shoot a goose. OMG. It is a sport, just like fishing. I catching a fish and eating it is different in your eyes? Do you eat meat Harry? Your PITA membership is up for renewal. Eh? |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
Harry,
It truly takes a brave man to catch and kill a fish. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Butch Ammon wrote: Once I got to my spot, behind a small island, I heard the "first flight" honking it's way down the river behind me, and popped the leader. Small pleasures keep the idiots happy. :o) I've never hunted goose in a field, but it sounds like less work and more fun. Enjoy! noah Hey Noah, Goose hunting in a farmers field is way better than on water from a boat. Instead of a dozen or so geese flying in, you'll see 100-200 geese on a field! They are everywhere and just standing around, eating up crops and pieces of corn kernels and creating a nuisance not to mention a mess to the field. Take care. Butch Ammon It's sad to watch you devolve, Butch, truly it is. It takes a truly brave man to shoot a goose. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
It sounds to me that Harry only wants people to enjoy the same things he
enjoys. He does not hunt, so you should not hunt. He enjoy fishing, hence it is ok. He votes democratic, if you vote Republican you are trash. Sounds very simple. "Butch Ammon" wrote in message ... Harry, It truly takes a brave man to catch and kill a fish. Exactly.... I remember sociology class in high school and anthropology. Man is either a hunter or a gatherer. I discovered what hunting is all about and enjoy it and enjoy being out among nature too. I don't understand how I could "devolve" - that doesn't make sense. I go fishing and eat fish. I now go hunting and eat the meat too. Depending on how it's prepared, goose breasts taste exactly like a Thanksgiving turkey - except it's all dark meat. I think Harry will really be saddened to hear that I went to the seminar at Fort A.P.Hill here in Virginia and got my deer permit for the base this coming season. Venison steaks will be for dinner! Butch Ammon |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I think Harry will really be saddened to hear that I went to the seminar at
Fort A.P.Hill here in Virginia and got my deer permit for the base this coming season. Venison steaks will be for dinner! Butch Ammon Deer hunting? Maybe your deer are bigger, meaner, and warier back east but shooting a deer out west here anymore is like gunning down the neighbor's pet goat. Darn things are all semi-tame. They are so acclimated to people that about half of them come up and beg for snacks when they see human beings. There was probably something to the "sport" at one time, but most of the deer around here are not much bigger than (and no more clever than) a typical petting-zoo goat. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
"Bill Cole" wrote in message news:THa6b.369894$o%2.166159@sccrnsc02... It sounds to me that Harry only wants people to enjoy the same things he enjoys. He does not hunt, so you should not hunt. He enjoy fishing, hence it is ok. He votes democratic, if you vote Republican you are trash. Sounds very simple. As I said before, Harry lives in his own black and white world...no room for gray. In his little mind you are either with him or against him. A sad world to live in. |
The problem with these off-topic, political threads...
I think Harry will really be saddened to hear that I went to the seminar at
Fort A.P.Hill here in Virginia and got my deer permit for the base this coming season. Venison steaks will be for dinner! Butch Ammon Deer hunting? Maybe your deer are bigger, meaner, and warier back east but shooting a deer out west here anymore is like gunning down the neighbor's pet goat. Darn things are all semi-tame. They are so acclimated to people that about half of them come up and beg for snacks when they see human beings. There was probably something to the "sport" at one time, but most of the deer around here are not much bigger than (and no more clever than) a typical petting-zoo goat. Some of the deer in Virginia (western part around the Blue Ridge Mts and Skyline drive areas) are HUGE... Massive 16 point bucks that can easily weigh as much as a full grown man. The rest of Virginia has ordinary, common, deer herds. They are not tame, but are starting to venture more and more into urban areas and trash people's gardens - and get hit by cars! I don't exactly "shoot" deer, as in using a rifle - I don't own a rifle. But I have a big compound bow with 65 lbs of pull to it, and merely launch an arrow at a deer. It's more sporty that way - you have to get REAL CLOSE to a deer too. Butch Ammon |
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