"HK" wrote in message
. ..

If you install VISTA over an earlier OS instead of doing a clean install,
if you have a slow processor or less than two GIGs of RAM, if you don't
know what you are doing with a computer, then you are likely to have
VISTA-related problems.

VISTA has had its share of "VISTA-unique" problems, as has every other
maintstream desktop computer OS. The complaints I find funniest are those
from the know-nothings who bitch that "VISTA is slower than XP." Slower?
Oh...you mean your word processor, email reader, and instant messenger
work slowly? No? Oh...you read a benchmark. Yawn.



How about the average computer user who does not have advanced computer
skills or even the technical knowledge of what to buy?
My daughter recently replaced their computer with a new HP Pavilion laptop
preloaded with some version of Vista. They bought the best model they could
afford, but she doesn't know a megabit from a horsefly.

I was playing with it the other day. It just doesn't have the "snap"
opening programs or even simple navigation to files or folders that my 4
year old HP Pavilion running XP has. I neglected to check what her
processor type, speed or RAM capacity is, so it may not be a fair
comparison. Mine has a Pentium 4, 3.00GHz processor and 2.0 GB of RAM.
Next time I visit, I'll check and see what her new one has.

Point is, to us non-hobbyist or geeks, it seems that if Vista requires
certain minimums in terms of processors and RAM capacity to operate
properly, (which I am sure raises the cost of the computer) Microsoft is
sorta screwing many customers by forcing Vista onto all new Windows based
computers.

I also may not know what I am talking about, because my daughter's computer
..... which is only a month old .... is my first experience with Vista. So,
I am one of those "know-nothings" who claims Vista is slower than XP. In
this particular case, it *is* noticeably slower than the 4 year old computer
I am using now.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
If you install VISTA over an earlier OS instead of doing a clean install,
if you have a slow processor or less than two GIGs of RAM, if you don't
know what you are doing with a computer, then you are likely to have
VISTA-related problems.

VISTA has had its share of "VISTA-unique" problems, as has every other
maintstream desktop computer OS. The complaints I find funniest are those
from the know-nothings who bitch that "VISTA is slower than XP." Slower?
Oh...you mean your word processor, email reader, and instant messenger
work slowly? No? Oh...you read a benchmark. Yawn.



How about the average computer user who does not have advanced computer
skills or even the technical knowledge of what to buy?
My daughter recently replaced their computer with a new HP Pavilion laptop
preloaded with some version of Vista. They bought the best model they could
afford, but she doesn't know a megabit from a horsefly.

I was playing with it the other day. It just doesn't have the "snap"
opening programs or even simple navigation to files or folders that my 4
year old HP Pavilion running XP has. I neglected to check what her
processor type, speed or RAM capacity is, so it may not be a fair
comparison. Mine has a Pentium 4, 3.00GHz processor and 2.0 GB of RAM.
Next time I visit, I'll check and see what her new one has.


That's a valid point. When I wander through Best Buy and some of the
other box stores, I see grossly underpowered machines, desktops and
laptops, running VISTA when they should be running XP. My guess is that
the CPU in your daughter's machine is adequate, but that it is short of
RAM. From what I have experienced and seen, a minimum of two GB of RAM
is necessary to run VISTA properly. If that is the case, it is easy
enough to fix and it doesn't cost much.

You might also check that daughter's machine to see what it is actually
running at startup and in the background. My wife was complaining about
the "slowness" of her laptop the other day (she runs XP Pro) and when I
checked it out, I found at least 15 apps running in the background or
"open" that she simply did not use. I shut them down and voila!...a new
computer!



Point is, to us non-hobbyist or geeks, it seems that if Vista requires
certain minimums in terms of processors and RAM capacity to operate
properly, (which I am sure raises the cost of the computer) Microsoft is
sorta screwing many customers by forcing Vista onto all new Windows based
computers.

I won't argue with that, either. Forcing VISTA onto computers that
barely meet MS's published minimum standards is not a good idea.




I also may not know what I am talking about, because my daughter's computer
.... which is only a month old .... is my first experience with Vista. So,
I am one of those "know-nothings" who claims Vista is slower than XP. In
this particular case, it *is* noticeably slower than the 4 year old computer
I am using now.

Eisboch



Well, the comparison you are making is not valid. Apples and oranges.


* My MacBook Pro came with two GB of ram, and for less than $100, I
pulled out those two sticks of memory, and replaced them with sticks
holding four GB of ram. Memory is cheap.

I run XP Pro and VISTA on my MacBook. Both perform properly, and nearly
as fast as on my desktop machine for most normal applications.

Eisboch wrote:



How about the average computer user who does not have advanced computer
skills or even the technical knowledge of what to buy?
My daughter recently replaced their computer with a new HP Pavilion laptop
preloaded with some version of Vista. They bought the best model they could
afford, but she doesn't know a megabit from a horsefly.

I was playing with it the other day. It just doesn't have the "snap"
opening programs or even simple navigation to files or folders that my 4
year old HP Pavilion running XP has. I neglected to check what her
processor type, speed or RAM capacity is, so it may not be a fair
comparison. Mine has a Pentium 4, 3.00GHz processor and 2.0 GB of RAM.
Next time I visit, I'll check and see what her new one has.

Point is, to us non-hobbyist or geeks, it seems that if Vista requires
certain minimums in terms of processors and RAM capacity to operate
properly, (which I am sure raises the cost of the computer) Microsoft is
sorta screwing many customers by forcing Vista onto all new Windows based
computers.

I also may not know what I am talking about, because my daughter's computer
.... which is only a month old .... is my first experience with Vista. So,
I am one of those "know-nothings" who claims Vista is slower than XP. In
this particular case, it *is* noticeably slower than the 4 year old computer
I am using now.

Eisboch



Eisboch,

I have helped two friends setup their Windows Vista desktops, one a
Dell, the other a HP, one had at 2gb and the other had 3 gb of RAM and a
Dual Core Processor with at least 4mg of Cache. They had the exact same
complaint. They had a replaced 4 and 5 year old computers, and could
not see any additional speed when opening their software.

There are people who enjoy playing with their computers and putzing
around and installing every alpha and beta software that comes along.
They love Vista, because it is a beta software that you actually get to buy.

Someone in rec.boats who purchased a laptop had the same complaint, and
was wondering how to tweak Vista to speed it up. It is a common
complaint in the Vista NG.

I will end up buying my son the MAC since it was important enough for
him to be willing to pay the difference. I am just glad my youngest
daughter loves the idea of the new Lenovo Laptop with XP, because it
will run all of her existing software. Since Lenovo doesn't preload the
computer will all the junk that slows down a new machine, she should
have a blazing fast computer, at half the cost of the MACPRO.

If your daughter is up to the task, she can ask HP for a free Install
Disk for Vista and do a clean install in the HP. Without all of the
junk they preload in their machines it will run faster,just not as fast
as it would with WinXP. HP might be willing to sell her a XP install
disk at a reasonable price.

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Eisboch wrote:



How about the average computer user who does not have advanced
computer skills or even the technical knowledge of what to buy?
My daughter recently replaced their computer with a new HP Pavilion
laptop preloaded with some version of Vista. They bought the best
model they could afford, but she doesn't know a megabit from a horsefly.

I was playing with it the other day. It just doesn't have the "snap"
opening programs or even simple navigation to files or folders that my
4 year old HP Pavilion running XP has. I neglected to check what her
processor type, speed or RAM capacity is, so it may not be a fair
comparison. Mine has a Pentium 4, 3.00GHz processor and 2.0 GB of
RAM. Next time I visit, I'll check and see what her new one has.

Point is, to us non-hobbyist or geeks, it seems that if Vista requires
certain minimums in terms of processors and RAM capacity to operate
properly, (which I am sure raises the cost of the computer) Microsoft
is sorta screwing many customers by forcing Vista onto all new Windows
based computers.

I also may not know what I am talking about, because my daughter's
computer .... which is only a month old .... is my first experience
with Vista. So, I am one of those "know-nothings" who claims Vista
is slower than XP. In this particular case, it *is* noticeably
slower than the 4 year old computer I am using now.

Eisboch


Eisboch,


I have helped two friends setup their Windows Vista desktops

Bull****. There hasn't been one post in this newsgroup that indicates
you know anything about computers or operating systems. All you have
ever done is cut and pasted negative news stories about VISTA.

"Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is Here wrote in message
. ..


If your daughter is up to the task, she can ask HP for a free Install Disk
for Vista and do a clean install in the HP. Without all of the junk they
preload in their machines it will run faster,just not as fast as it would
with WinXP. HP might be willing to sell her a XP install disk at a
reasonable price.



My daughter is happy with the new computer and Vista. It replaced a clunky,
very old desktop that was still working, running Windows '98.

*I* am the one that happened to notice that it runs somewhat sluggishly
compared to the older, HP Pavilion that I use (running XP) or my wife's
laptop .... also a HP Pavilion, but the model optimized for "Multimedia".
It also runs XP.

Like Harry suggested, my daughter's new computer may be shy some RAM and may
have a bunch of applications running in the background that slows it down.
But that was not my point.

My point was that for the average computer user who has limited knowledge of
how to optimize a computer, Vista may be somewhat disappointing, even in a
new computer shipped with Vista as the OS. Many people treat a computer
like a toaster. Plug it in and use it. Not all people have the knowledge
of how to optimize it, add memory, etc., nor do they care. They expect it
to work, as advertised.

That's why I think Vista is having a poor introduction.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is Here wrote in message
. ..

If your daughter is up to the task, she can ask HP for a free Install Disk
for Vista and do a clean install in the HP. Without all of the junk they
preload in their machines it will run faster,just not as fast as it would
with WinXP. HP might be willing to sell her a XP install disk at a
reasonable price.


My daughter is happy with the new computer and Vista. It replaced a clunky,
very old desktop that was still working, running Windows '98.

*I* am the one that happened to notice that it runs somewhat sluggishly
compared to the older, HP Pavilion that I use (running XP) or my wife's
laptop .... also a HP Pavilion, but the model optimized for "Multimedia".
It also runs XP.

Like Harry suggested, my daughter's new computer may be shy some RAM and may
have a bunch of applications running in the background that slows it down.
But that was not my point.

My point was that for the average computer user who has limited knowledge of
how to optimize a computer, Vista may be somewhat disappointing, even in a
new computer shipped with Vista as the OS. Many people treat a computer
like a toaster. Plug it in and use it. Not all people have the knowledge
of how to optimize it, add memory, etc., nor do they care. They expect it
to work, as advertised.

That's why I think Vista is having a poor introduction.

Eisboch



I agree with your point. Further, Microsoft provides lousy documentation
with VISTA, perhaps even worse than it provided with XP. That, sadly,
seems to be the trend these days. Even my "overpriced" MacBook came with
scanty documentation. Why computer manufacturers think their customers
know precisely what to do from the get-go is beyond my comprehension.

Because we live on the fringes of a metro area, though, we do have a
couple of Apple stores in our area, and the "geeks" there seem fairly
knowledgeable. I've long been an "admirer" of the Apple stores, and
almost always stop by when I am dragged to the Mall, so I was able to
pick up bits and pieces of knowledge about the new Apple OS and one or
two applications. It was not with a little trepidation, though, that I
actually went in to buy an Apple laptop to replace my Thinkpad.

On Apr 6, 11:32*am, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
If you install VISTA over an earlier OS instead of doing a clean install,
if you have a slow processor or less than two GIGs of RAM, if you don't
know what you are doing with a computer, then you are likely to have
VISTA-related problems.

VISTA has had its share of "VISTA-unique" problems, as has every other
maintstream desktop computer OS. The complaints I find funniest are those
from the know-nothings who bitch that "VISTA is slower than XP." Slower?
Oh...you mean your word processor, email reader, and instant messenger
work slowly? No? Oh...you read a benchmark. Yawn.

How about the average computer user who does not have advanced computer
skills or even the technical knowledge of what to buy?
My daughter recently replaced their computer with a new HP Pavilion laptop
preloaded with some version of Vista. *They bought the best model they could
afford, but she doesn't know a megabit from a horsefly.

I was playing with it the other day. *It just doesn't have the "snap"
opening programs or even simple navigation to files or folders that my 4
year old HP Pavilion running XP has. * I neglected to check what her
processor type, speed or RAM capacity is, so it may not be a fair
comparison. *Mine has a Pentium 4, 3.00GHz processor and 2.0 GB of RAM..
Next time I visit, I'll check and see what her new one has.

That's a valid point. When I wander through Best Buy and some of the
other box stores, I see grossly underpowered machines, desktops and
laptops, running VISTA when they should be running XP. My guess is that
the CPU in your daughter's machine is adequate, but that it is short of
RAM. From what I have experienced and seen, a minimum of two GB of RAM
is necessary to run VISTA properly. If that is the case, it is easy
enough to fix and it doesn't cost much.

That's because it's freakin' bloatware at it's finest.

On Apr 6, 11:47*am, HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:





Eisboch wrote:

How about the average computer user who does not have advanced
computer skills or even the technical knowledge of what to buy?
My daughter recently replaced their computer with a new HP Pavilion
laptop preloaded with some version of Vista. *They bought the best
model they could afford, but she doesn't know a megabit from a horsefly..

I was playing with it the other day. *It just doesn't have the "snap"
opening programs or even simple navigation to files or folders that my
4 year old HP Pavilion running XP has. * I neglected to check what her
processor type, speed or RAM capacity is, so it may not be a fair
comparison. *Mine has a Pentium 4, 3.00GHz processor and 2.0 GB of
RAM. Next time I visit, I'll check and see what her new one has.

Point is, to us non-hobbyist or geeks, it seems that if Vista requires
certain minimums in terms of processors and RAM capacity to operate
properly, (which I am sure raises the cost of the computer) *Microsoft
is sorta screwing many customers by forcing Vista onto all new Windows
based computers.

I also may not know what I am talking about, because my daughter's
computer .... which is only a month old .... is my first experience
with Vista. * So, I am one of those "know-nothings" *who claims Vista
is slower than XP. * In this particular case, it *is* noticeably
slower than the 4 year old computer I am using now.

Eisboch

Eisboch,
I have helped two friends setup their Windows Vista desktops

Bull****. There hasn't been one post in this newsgroup that indicates
you know anything about computers or operating systems. All you have
ever done is cut and pasted negative news stories about VISTA.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Harry, you lie here constantly. Pretty presumptive of you to call
bull**** on someone you know nothing about.

Eisboch wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is Here wrote in message
. ..

If your daughter is up to the task, she can ask HP for a free Install Disk
for Vista and do a clean install in the HP. Without all of the junk they
preload in their machines it will run faster,just not as fast as it would
with WinXP. HP might be willing to sell her a XP install disk at a
reasonable price.


My daughter is happy with the new computer and Vista. It replaced a clunky,
very old desktop that was still working, running Windows '98.

*I* am the one that happened to notice that it runs somewhat sluggishly
compared to the older, HP Pavilion that I use (running XP) or my wife's
laptop .... also a HP Pavilion, but the model optimized for "Multimedia".
It also runs XP.

Like Harry suggested, my daughter's new computer may be shy some RAM and may
have a bunch of applications running in the background that slows it down.
But that was not my point.

My point was that for the average computer user who has limited knowledge of
how to optimize a computer, Vista may be somewhat disappointing, even in a
new computer shipped with Vista as the OS. Many people treat a computer
like a toaster. Plug it in and use it. Not all people have the knowledge
of how to optimize it, add memory, etc., nor do they care. They expect it
to work, as advertised.

That's why I think Vista is having a poor introduction.

Eisboch



Actually a computer really should run like a toaster, you plug it in and
it works. One may need to learn how to use specific software
applications, but it should not take a geek to run the computer. I am
sure she has a many applications running in the background that she does
not need, it is common with HP, Dell and others. But you probably have
more applications running in the background than she does, since yours
is an older computer and these new background applications do have a
tendency to grow every time you install a new program.

"HK" wrote in message
. ..


I agree with your point. Further, Microsoft provides lousy documentation
with VISTA, perhaps even worse than it provided with XP. That, sadly,
seems to be the trend these days. Even my "overpriced" MacBook came with
scanty documentation. Why computer manufacturers think their customers
know precisely what to do from the get-go is beyond my comprehension.



My 80 year old mother uses her computer everyday. It's an inexpensive, Dell
laptop (running XP) that is so slow in booting up that if she wants to show
me something on it, I tell her to turn it on and then go out and mow her
lawn while it boots up.

It's amazing however. She stays in touch with all her friends via email,
loves getting pictures sent to her of her great-grandkids and does most of
her shopping "on-line", including Pea-Pod, a food delivery service operated
by the Stop and Shop grocery store chain.

Every once in a while though she gets it all screwed up and either my
brother or me has to try to get it de-tangled.
Once, she was complaining about not being able to send or receive email.
Somehow she had managed to delete the user data, email address, etc. from
Outlook Express. Of course, she didn't own up to this until I was trying
to re-enter the data. Sitting with my fingers on the keyboard, going
through the process, I asked her, "What's your e-mail address?"

She answered in all seriousness, giving me her full name, street address,
state and zip code.

Eisboch