Drove down to Fairhaven yesterday to check out the Sabreliner I have
interest in. Overall, it appears to be in pretty decent shape for a 1991
model. There is some typical gelcoat crazing found on older boats, mostly
along the toe rail and a few minor blemishes but nothing serious. It has
some brightwork exterior trim that needs to be redone, but that's not a big
deal.

It was difficult to get a good look at the exterior because it's still
shrinkwrapped, but from what I could see peeking under the wrap, it looks
good. Nothing visually unusual with the hull ... no apparent damage or
grounding repairs.

The interior was very good as was the engine spaces. Very clean and well
maintained. No unusual smells. Bilges were clean and odor-free.

My only real concern is the engine hours. Turns out there are about 3900
hours on the Cummins 6BT5.9-M turbo-diesels. The engines are very clean and
obviously well maintained, but I don't know how well these particular
engines hold up. I've done a little research on them and they are a very
popular marine engine with few problems reported. According to the broker,
they were fully checked out in August of 2005, including an oil analysis
which came back fine. The current owner has only put about 100 hours on
them since. The oil was changed when it was laid up last fall, so a new
oil analysis isn't going to determine much of anything. If we proceed with
this boat, an arduous sea trial with a good diesel mechanic is in order.
The people that the buyer of the Navigator hired would be good. They really
run the engines through their paces, checking all temps and operation while
underway, doing things I'd never do with a boat.

This style boat appeals to me and is perfect for my future, more individual
boating interest. Probably won't do a lot of cruising, but it would be nice
to make it from the Cape up to Scituate in 2.5-3 hours instead of 7 hours on
the Grand Banks. And, I like having twins. It is one of three for sale in
the MA, RI, CT area of roughly the same year and has the lowest asking
price.
I am trying to stay within a total budget of $150K for boat, taxes and any
repairs/upgrades another boat may require.

Hmmmmm.....

Eisboch

On Apr 8, 5:14*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
Drove down to Fairhaven yesterday to check out the Sabreliner I have
interest in. *Overall, it appears to be in pretty decent shape for a 1991
model. *There is some typical gelcoat crazing found on older boats, mostly
along the toe rail and a few minor blemishes but nothing serious. *It has
some brightwork exterior trim that needs to be redone, but that's not a big
deal.

It was difficult to get a good look at the exterior because it's still
shrinkwrapped, but from what I could see peeking under the wrap, it looks
good. *Nothing visually unusual with the hull ... no apparent damage or
grounding repairs.

The interior was very good as was the engine spaces. *Very clean and well
maintained. *No unusual smells. *Bilges were clean and odor-free.

My only real concern is the engine hours. *Turns out there are about 3900
hours on the Cummins 6BT5.9-M turbo-diesels. *The engines are very clean and
obviously well maintained, but I don't know how well these particular
engines hold up. *I've done a little research on them and they are a very
popular marine engine with few problems reported. *According to the broker,
they were fully checked out in August of 2005, including an oil analysis
which came back fine. *The current owner has only put about 100 hours on
them since. * * The oil was changed when it was laid up last fall, so a new
oil analysis isn't going to determine much of anything. *If we proceed with
this boat, an arduous sea trial with a good diesel mechanic is in order.
The people that the buyer of the Navigator hired would be good. *They really
run the engines through their paces, checking all temps and operation while
underway, doing things I'd never do with a boat.

This style boat appeals to me and is perfect for my future, more individual
boating interest. *Probably won't do a lot of cruising, but it would be nice
to make it from the Cape up to Scituate in 2.5-3 hours instead of 7 hours on
the Grand Banks. *And, I like having twins. *It is one of three for sale in
the MA, RI, CT area of roughly the same year and has the lowest asking
price.
I am trying to stay within a total budget of $150K *for boat, taxes and any
repairs/upgrades another boat may require.

Hmmmmm.....

Eisboch

Richard. the 5.9 Turbo diesel si one of the most rock solid engines
built. Many a workin' mansDodge pickup has run them with little
maintenance over oil changes for 400,000+ miles.

In anything else, ask for an oil analysis test. I'm sure you're
familiar with it, but maybe not. They suck up some engine oil, send it
to have sampled then the lab can tell you a lot aboutt he internals of
the engine. Just like a blood test. amazing what they can find in
there.

Of course if it was freah changed befor moth-balling, it wond be of
much help. but if it's seasoned oil, it would be to your benefit. the
testing is cheap too.

"Tim" wrote in message
...

On Apr 8, 5:14 am, "Eisboch" wrote:


The oil was changed when it was laid up last fall, so a new
oil analysis isn't going to determine much of anything. If we proceed with
this boat, an arduous sea trial with a good diesel mechanic is in order.
The people that the buyer of the Navigator hired would be good. They
really
run the engines through their paces, checking all temps and operation
while
underway, doing things I'd never do with a boat.



Richard. the 5.9 Turbo diesel si one of the most rock solid engines
built. Many a workin' mansDodge pickup has run them with little
maintenance over oil changes for 400,000+ miles.

In anything else, ask for an oil analysis test. I'm sure you're
familiar with it, but maybe not. They suck up some engine oil, send it
to have sampled then the lab can tell you a lot aboutt he internals of
the engine. Just like a blood test. amazing what they can find in
there.

Of course if it was freah changed befor moth-balling, it wond be of
much help. but if it's seasoned oil, it would be to your benefit. the
testing is cheap too.

--------------------------

Good information regarding the 5.9 Turbo. Thanks. I suspected they are
good engines because I really can't find anything negative reported about
them. Even if they typically need a rebuild after 5000 hours, they would
be fine for me. I doubt I'll put more than 50-100 hours a year on them.

As I mentioned in my original post, the oil was changed at lay up last fall,
so an oil analysis won't be very meaningful.

Eisboch

On Apr 8, 7:44*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message

...

On Apr 8, 5:14 am, "Eisboch" wrote:

The oil was changed when it was laid up last fall, so a new
oil analysis isn't going to determine much of anything. If we proceed with
this boat, an arduous sea trial with a good diesel mechanic is in order.
The people that the buyer of the Navigator hired would be good. They
really
run the engines through their paces, checking all temps and operation
while
underway, doing things I'd never do with a boat.

Richard. the 5.9 Turbo diesel si one of the most rock solid engines
built. Many a *workin' mansDodge pickup has run them *with little
maintenance over oil changes for 400,000+ miles.

In anything else, ask for an oil analysis test. *I'm sure you're
familiar with it, but maybe not. They suck up some engine oil, send it
to have sampled then the lab can tell you a lot aboutt he internals of
the engine. Just like a blood test. amazing what they can find in
there.

Of course if it was freah changed befor moth-balling, it wond be of
much help. but if it's seasoned oil, it would be to your benefit. the
testing is cheap too.

--------------------------

Good information regarding the 5.9 Turbo. *Thanks. * I suspected they are
good engines because I really can't find anything negative reported about
them. * Even if they typically need a rebuild after 5000 hours, they would
be fine for me. * I doubt I'll put more than 50-100 hours a year on them..

As I mentioned in my original post, the oil was changed at lay up last fall,
so an oil analysis won't be very meaningful.

Eisboch


Sorry, I missed your statement about the oil change. But one thing
about the 5.9 cummins is it's popularity obviously because of Dodge.
Now I don't know about a marinized version which would be manifold
and possibly turbo, and don't know about the labor, but even so, a
NEW (not reman) longblock engine is less than $8,000.00 USD from what
I understand.

BTW, not counting the long lifespan, they're also a very economical
engine. PLUS there's lots fo tricks that can be doe tot hem to gain
major horsepower safely.

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 06:14:46 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

My only real concern is the engine hours. Turns out there are about 3900
hours on the Cummins 6BT5.9-M turbo-diesels. The engines are very clean and
obviously well maintained, but I don't know how well these particular
engines hold up.

That's a lot of hours for turbos. Even if very well maintained and
presently in perfect condition, there is a rebuild or replacement
somewhere down the road, maybe at 5,000 to 6,000 hours. On the other
hand, if you don't plan any extensive cruising north/south, they might
last you quite a while. I'd get them checked out *very* carefully and
build some maintenance $$$s into your offering price.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 06:14:46 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

My only real concern is the engine hours. Turns out there are about 3900
hours on the Cummins 6BT5.9-M turbo-diesels. The engines are very clean
and
obviously well maintained, but I don't know how well these particular
engines hold up.

That's a lot of hours for turbos. Even if very well maintained and
presently in perfect condition, there is a rebuild or replacement
somewhere down the road, maybe at 5,000 to 6,000 hours. On the other
hand, if you don't plan any extensive cruising north/south, they might
last you quite a while. I'd get them checked out *very* carefully and
build some maintenance $$$s into your offering price.


I did. I am not trying to low ball the seller (not my style) but I made
what I consider to be a reasonable, informal "verbal" offer with
consideration to the hours on the engines only. The rest of the stuff I
can deal with. The seller is thinking it over.

I'll have them rigorously tested and inspected if we proceed, probably by
DePaul Diesel Service out of Portsmouth, RI. They did the inspection on
the Navigator sea trial and I was impressed with their procedures.

It's more likely than not that my future "boating" will consist of less than
100 hours a year underway. Like you, I assumed a rebuild at about 5000
hours is probably about right. That means about 11 years or more. Good
enough. If the boat and I last that long, it will be worth it.

Eisboch

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:27:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I'll have them rigorously tested and inspected if we proceed, probably by
DePaul Diesel Service out of Portsmouth, RI.

Not that you asked for my opinion, but those guys are the best.

Seriously.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:27:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I'll have them rigorously tested and inspected if we proceed, probably by
DePaul Diesel Service out of Portsmouth, RI.

Not that you asked for my opinion, but those guys are the best.

Seriously.


Having witnessed another diesel "surveyor" who basically took an oil
sample, documented the engine serial numbers and checked the oil level, I
agree.

The guys from DePaul really exercised, tested, took readings, etc. of the
engines during the Navigator sea trial.
They even dynamically check things like the engine mounts by having the
operator fairly rapidly go from full forward, to idle, to reverse and then
almost full power again. Several times. Made the hair on my neck stand
up.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
news

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:27:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I'll have them rigorously tested and inspected if we proceed, probably
by
DePaul Diesel Service out of Portsmouth, RI.

Not that you asked for my opinion, but those guys are the best.

Seriously.


Having witnessed another diesel "surveyor" who basically took an oil
sample, documented the engine serial numbers and checked the oil level, I
agree.

The guys from DePaul really exercised, tested, took readings, etc. of the
engines during the Navigator sea trial.
They even dynamically check things like the engine mounts by having the
operator fairly rapidly go from full forward, to idle, to reverse and then
almost full power again. Several times. Made the hair on my neck stand
up.

Eisboch


BTW .... I got an email from Dennis at DePaul this morning. He didn't seem
to be that concerned about 3900 hours on the Cummins 5.9L turbo diesels.
He told me they just pulled the same engine out of a 73' sailboat, checked
it out then re-installed it in a commercial lobster boat. It had over 7000
hours on it and still ran fine.

Eisboch

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:08:08 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Eisboch" wrote in message
news

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:27:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I'll have them rigorously tested and inspected if we proceed, probably
by
DePaul Diesel Service out of Portsmouth, RI.

Not that you asked for my opinion, but those guys are the best.

Seriously.


Having witnessed another diesel "surveyor" who basically took an oil
sample, documented the engine serial numbers and checked the oil level, I
agree.

The guys from DePaul really exercised, tested, took readings, etc. of the
engines during the Navigator sea trial.
They even dynamically check things like the engine mounts by having the
operator fairly rapidly go from full forward, to idle, to reverse and then
almost full power again. Several times. Made the hair on my neck stand
up.

BTW .... I got an email from Dennis at DePaul this morning. He didn't seem
to be that concerned about 3900 hours on the Cummins 5.9L turbo diesels.
He told me they just pulled the same engine out of a 73' sailboat, checked
it out then re-installed it in a commercial lobster boat. It had over 7000
hours on it and still ran fine.

A lot of contractors around here have Dodge pickups with that same
Cummins engine design - I don't know if the marinized version is that
much different, but most of them have a lot of hours and time on them
with little or no problems. From my perspective, they are a lot
noisier than International diesels, but that doesn't mean they aren't
good engines.

Food for thought.