There is no room for it even with a longer belt.

I live is extremely sandy, shallow canals, etc. Kicking up sand cannot
be avoided. At best, i can get 2 years out of an impeller. Plus the high
heat and humidity here is no help. I am retired, so I am out on the
water 8-12 times a month on average. So the life expectancy gets cut
short with that much activity on a standard impeller.

For now, I'll keep the electric pump. I'll let you know how long it
lasts. I can always go back to the impeller like you said, or install
the mechanical sea pump in the off season.

Jim Rojas





jamesgangnc wrote:
You don't have to have another belt if you can get a pump in line with
another accessory. Then just get a bigger belt.

But in all honesty I would simply go back to the outdrive pump. It works
fine for hundreds of thousands of installations and really does not need to
be replaced every year if you do not abuse it.

"Jim Rojas" wrote in message
news:WArPj.9620$aq4.2258@trnddc02...
One of the optional alternator conversion kits has a pulley that mounts
directly onto the Harmonic balancer. A bracket, and a separate belt would
be required. Being that I have power steering, there is no room for the
pump anywhere on the existing pulley system.

Jim Rojas




wrote:
On Apr 22, 9:15 am, "Jim" wrote:
He's already changed the configuration of the front of the engine with
the
alternator. That is a common modification. I have never heard of a
pulley
operated water pump setup for the 170. The Volvo harmonic balancer
mounted
water pump might work if it fits and isn't interfered with by belts. Too
much work, in my opinion. He should learn how to service the outdrive.
The
setup he has now is destined for failure.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

m...



Yep, that's one of them. There is a bunch of them and probably any
number
of them would work if you have the appropriate brackets. Imho in
Florida
I'd be looking for some junk boat yards as a source of brackets and
possibly a pump too.
"Jim Rojas" wrote in message
news:TCaPj.8271$pH4.3081@trnddc06...
Like this one?
http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=116154F
Jim Rojas
jamesgangnc wrote:
Actually you can probably get 4 or 5 years out of an impeller if you
keep the lower unit out of the sand. Sand eats them up pretty quick.
Also make sure you NEVER run it without a water supply. I
occasionally
check mine and have replaced it a couple times. Truth is I've never
had
a "bad" one. Even the ones that were 4 or 5 years old still looked
fine. I replaced them anyway. My boat is a 1990 and it's had 4
impellers and none of the old ones had anything significantly wrong
with
them. Merc just advises every year to cover their own asses.
If you couldn't get it into reverse that probably means you did not
have
the shift shaft lined up properly. It's a splined shaft and is not
keyed. It is a pain to hold the prop engaged while getting the lower
half on to make sure the shifter is in the right spot. But there are
a
number of reasons to be competent at removing the outdrive like
occasionally greasing the u-joints. I usually take mine off every
other
winter, check the impeller, grease the u-joints, and replace the gear
lube. On the odd winters and occasionally during the summer I
"sample"
the lube at the drain to make sure it still looks good and doesn't
have
any water in it.
If you really don't like the pump in the outdrive you can get a
engine
driven mechanical one. That's what the volvoes and bravoes have.
There
are a lot of boat scrap yards down there where you could probably dig
up
the brackets. Sounds like you might not have an electric pump that
is
up to the prolonged cycle you are running it at. That will be a real
pain if it craps out on you. A mechanical pump is less likely to
completely fail like an electric motor. Nothin personal but I'm
going
with "bad idea" on your electric water pump.
"Jim Rojas" wrote in message
news:FR8Pj.7450$aq4.6493@trnddc02...
I live in Florida, and I don't have alot of money. Most marinas and
mobile guys charge $150 + parts for the impeller. And you do have to
replace them every year.
Jim Rojas
Tim wrote:
On Apr 21, 1:33 pm, Jim Rojas wrote:
wrote:
On Apr 21, 12:13 pm, Jim Rojas wrote:
The hardest part was getting the harmonic balancer removed. I
was
able
to get a puller & inserter on loan from Autozone.
The old stator came off pretty easy. The magnets however were
all
busted
up, and I had to carefully look around for loose pieces. When it
was all
setup and done, the kit was well worth it. It came with the
brackets,
bolts, washers, belt, and wiring harness, along with a step by
step
full
illustration.
Jim Rojas
Tim wrote:
On Apr 21, 9:16 am, Jim Rojas wrote:
No offense taken. I am just glad to see people in this
newsgroup
willing
to help.
Jim Rojas
Ernest Scribbler wrote:
"Jim Rojas" wrote
Yeah...that I am an idiot...
Sorry if that's what I implied, not really what I meant to
say.-
Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Throttle body is kind fo neat , that is on a car, but look at
all
you'd have to do for a boat. High pressure fuel pump, computer
timing
etc, etc. It HAS been done, but it's not worth the cost of a
change
over.....
BTW, i know exactly the the alternator kit you used. and with
the
exception of making the brackets. The alternator is only about
$55-65.00- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So you used an electric water pump to replace the raw water pump
in
the outdrive? What prompted that?
Laziness for the most part. It is a pain in the ass to drain the
lower
unit, unbolt it, remove it, replace the parts. I tried doing it
myself
once. I followed the step by step directions in the Clymer manual,
but I
screwed up and now the boat doesn't go into reverse. I ended up
hiring a
mobile marine mechanic to fix it right.
Now that I have the electric raw water pump setup, All I have to
worry
about is replacing just the lower unit gear oil every season. An
electric pump take me 5 minutes to replace, and it costs the same
as
an
impeller kit.
Jim Rojas- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ingenuity is good. But one thing I must question. I know the kit
you
bought to repair your charging system. It' is expensive, but it
does
work, fit and is professionally made. and you gave $400.+ bucks for
it
and thought it was money well spent, which in your case probably
would
have been, because trying to mount an external alt. on that engine
would be a PITA. i can understand that.
But wouldn't repairing the water flow system follow under the same
notion?
Pay the money and have it fixed right?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Yea, the electric pump is most likely not a good idea. And I can't
argue with you about servicing the outdrive since that's the
conclusion I came to myself as well.

But the outdrive is just enough of a pain to see how others might
decide an engine driven mechanical pump would be better. I don;t know
much about the 170 or 470 but most of the harmonic balancers I've
worked with do not really have the pulleys built in. They are just
bolted to the front and get so stuck that they seem like they are part
of the balancer. I'm not saying I would do it but I can see how a guy
mught decide to fabricate some brackets and mount a water pump there.
I've had a random thought about switching to the cam nose mounted pump
myself occasionally. But I'm thinking there ain't a timing cover for
the 170 with a pump mount on it :-)

I've been following this thread from the start but, even though I've
owned several sterndrives over the years, I'm a bit lost with the
mounting probs and brackets etc. The engines in mine were just
converted auto engines with a belt driven water pump already bolted
onto the front of the block as per usual.

On Tue, 22 Apr 08, "jamesgangnc" wrote:
the original merc
outdrive really is the bottom half of an outboard and that's where they all
are on outboards.

But also keep in mind that the upper half is the bit that needs the
cooling and it's an "Inboard". None of which (straight inboards) need
an outboard type impeller. I've always wondered why the designers
didn't just get the cooling water through the bottom of the boat like
any normal straight inboard setup. One of the reasons I don't care for
sterndrives is it seems like they all have so many unnecessary
complexities designed into them. And cooling water intake is just one
of them. Maybe I'm missing something but what's the point in sucking
up water with the outdrive with all its additional parts and probs
when sucking it through a thru hull (like a zillion straight inboards)
would be so simple?

Rick

On Apr 23, 12:42*pm, wrote:
I've been following this thread from the start but, even though I've
owned several sterndrives over the years, I'm a bit lost with the
mounting probs and brackets etc. The engines in mine were just
converted auto engines with a belt driven water pump already bolted
onto the front of the block as per usual.

But these arn't your typical car engine convert. From what I gather,
this was some concoction of Mercruisers own design where they took
half of a ford 460 (sor of) and made their own rig. The alternator is
actually in the front harmonic balancer. Not an alternator like you
would know. and was energized by spinning magnets around a stator
coil. Very similar to an outboard or a Briggs & Stratton. compact,
but no power, and extremely expensive. Reliability for the charging
system was iffy, too. Plus, no belt drives, only one for the power
steering.

googly.


honestly, you'd have to see one to appreciate it.

wrote in message
...
I've been following this thread from the start but, even though I've
owned several sterndrives over the years, I'm a bit lost with the
mounting probs and brackets etc. The engines in mine were just
converted auto engines with a belt driven water pump already bolted
onto the front of the block as per usual.

On Tue, 22 Apr 08, "jamesgangnc" wrote:
the original merc
outdrive really is the bottom half of an outboard and that's where they
all
are on outboards.

But also keep in mind that the upper half is the bit that needs the
cooling and it's an "Inboard". None of which (straight inboards) need
an outboard type impeller. I've always wondered why the designers
didn't just get the cooling water through the bottom of the boat like
any normal straight inboard setup. One of the reasons I don't care for
sterndrives is it seems like they all have so many unnecessary
complexities designed into them. And cooling water intake is just one
of them. Maybe I'm missing something but what's the point in sucking
up water with the outdrive with all its additional parts and probs
when sucking it through a thru hull (like a zillion straight inboards)
would be so simple?

Rick

The Merc. small outdrive or any outboard water pump is immersed in water.
No need to suck, just push. I suspect that the engineers felt it unnecessary
to reinvent a proven design when they adapted an outboard lower to an
inboard engine. Later when FWC and high HP engines came along they found the
little outboard water pump couldn't deliver the needed volume of cooling
water. Back to the drawing board for a new solution.

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Apr 23, 12:42 pm, wrote:
I've been following this thread from the start but, even though I've
owned several sterndrives over the years, I'm a bit lost with the
mounting probs and brackets etc. The engines in mine were just
converted auto engines with a belt driven water pump already bolted
onto the front of the block as per usual.

But these arn't your typical car engine convert. From what I gather,
this was some concoction of Mercruisers own design where they took
half of a ford 460 (sor of) and made their own rig. The alternator is
actually in the front harmonic balancer. Not an alternator like you
would know. and was energized by spinning magnets around a stator
coil. Very similar to an outboard or a Briggs & Stratton. compact,
but no power, and extremely expensive. Reliability for the charging
system was iffy, too. Plus, no belt drives, only one for the power
steering.

googly.


honestly, you'd have to see one to appreciate it.

It's pretty hard to appreciate that system.

I helped a neighbor repower his 1988 21' Chris Craft Scorpion. It had a
small block Chevy V6 in it. It was a Mercruiser. After the huge
disappointment of what a new Mercruiser engine would cost ($6K+), he
decided to buy a rebuilt chevy car engine from Autozone. The cost was
$899. He removed the freeze plugs and installed brass ones. He then
replaced all the gaskets with Mercuiser stainless steel. He transferred
the risers, carb, fuel pump, etc. This was about 7 years ago. He still
has this boat today.

Jim Rojas


Jim wrote:

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Apr 23, 12:42 pm, wrote:
I've been following this thread from the start but, even though I've
owned several sterndrives over the years, I'm a bit lost with the
mounting probs and brackets etc. The engines in mine were just
converted auto engines with a belt driven water pump already bolted
onto the front of the block as per usual.

But these arn't your typical car engine convert. From what I gather,
this was some concoction of Mercruisers own design where they took
half of a ford 460 (sor of) and made their own rig. The alternator is
actually in the front harmonic balancer. Not an alternator like you
would know. and was energized by spinning magnets around a stator
coil. Very similar to an outboard or a Briggs & Stratton. compact,
but no power, and extremely expensive. Reliability for the charging
system was iffy, too. Plus, no belt drives, only one for the power
steering.

googly.


honestly, you'd have to see one to appreciate it.

It's pretty hard to appreciate that system.

On Apr 23, 2:13*pm, "Jim" wrote:
wrote in message

...





I've been following this thread from the start but, even though I've
owned several sterndrives over the years, I'm a bit lost with the
mounting probs and brackets etc. The engines in mine were just
converted auto engines with a belt driven water pump already bolted
onto the front of the block as per usual.

On Tue, 22 Apr 08, "jamesgangnc" wrote:
the original merc
outdrive really is the bottom half of an outboard and that's where they
all
are on outboards.

But also keep in mind that the upper half is the bit that needs the
cooling and it's an "Inboard". None of which (straight inboards) need
an outboard type impeller. *I've always wondered why the designers
didn't just get the cooling water through the bottom of the boat like
any normal straight inboard setup. One of the reasons I don't care for
sterndrives is it seems like they all have so many unnecessary
complexities designed into them. And cooling water intake is just one
of them. Maybe I'm missing something but what's the point in sucking
up water with the outdrive with all its additional parts and probs
when sucking it through a thru hull (like a zillion straight inboards)
would be so simple?

Rick

The Merc. small outdrive or any outboard *water pump is immersed in water.

Jim Rojas wrote:
Mercruiser engine would cost ($6K+), he
decided to buy a rebuilt chevy car engine from Autozone.

At one time here, the auto parts stores were selling as many short
blocks to power sterndrives as they were to power cars. I replaced one
in about 1976, the store replaced the freeze plugs, no charge, and the
last time I saw the boat (maybe 8-10 years ago) that replacement block
was still going strong. All I did was unbolt everything from the
original (cracked) block, bolted it onto the rebuilt short block, and
I was good to go. I don't remember what the short block cost but it
wasn't much,

Rick

wrote in message
...
On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "Jim" wrote:
wrote in message

...





I've been following this thread from the start but, even though I've
owned several sterndrives over the years, I'm a bit lost with the
mounting probs and brackets etc. The engines in mine were just
converted auto engines with a belt driven water pump already bolted
onto the front of the block as per usual.

On Tue, 22 Apr 08, "jamesgangnc" wrote:
the original merc
outdrive really is the bottom half of an outboard and that's where they
all
are on outboards.

But also keep in mind that the upper half is the bit that needs the
cooling and it's an "Inboard". None of which (straight inboards) need
an outboard type impeller. I've always wondered why the designers
didn't just get the cooling water through the bottom of the boat like
any normal straight inboard setup. One of the reasons I don't care for
sterndrives is it seems like they all have so many unnecessary
complexities designed into them. And cooling water intake is just one
of them. Maybe I'm missing something but what's the point in sucking
up water with the outdrive with all its additional parts and probs
when sucking it through a thru hull (like a zillion straight inboards)
would be so simple?

Rick

The Merc. small outdrive or any outboard water pump is immersed in water.
No need to suck, just push. I suspect that the engineers felt it
unnecessary
to reinvent a proven design when they adapted an outboard lower to an
inboard engine. Later when FWC and high HP engines came along they found
the
little outboard water pump couldn't deliver the needed volume of cooling
water. Back to the drawing board for a new solution.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The inside water pumps are basically the same design rubber vaned
pumps. All of them will self prime if needed and the distance is not
far.

I don't think the internal pumps are self priming. I would consider changing
my mind on that if I could see some proof.

Phantman wrote:
I've always wondered why the designers
didn't just get the cooling water through the bottom of the boat like
any normal straight inboard setup.

Jim wrote:
I suspect that the engineers felt it
unnecessary to reinvent a proven design

JamesGangNC wrote:
The inside water pumps are basically the same design rubber vaned
pumps. All of them will self prime if needed and the distance is not
far.

Jim wrote:
I don't think the internal pumps are self priming. I would consider
changing
my mind on that if I could see some proof.

Phantman wrote:
Are you familiar with inboards? I don't mean sterndrives. I mean
proven design straight inboards that have been around since long
before sterndrives were dreamed up (and still common everywhere). They
get their raw water through the boat's bottom via a thru hull fitting.
Whether or not they use a standard automotive pump or a special marine
design that's self priming, I'm not sure. But whatever it is, it sure
looks like a standard auto water pump and bolts right into place.

Jim wrote:
Rick, the pump under discussion is the raw water pump that brings water into
the boat, not the circulating pump.

Well, lets get on the same page then. My question was, "why wouldn't
the designer of a sterndrive use the same less complex method of
cooling water intake that Inboards have always used (and still use).
It's a time tested and proven design, no hauling the boat for impeller
maintenance, and less expensive to build. I see no advantage to their
more complex, more difficult to maintain design. That's not to say it
doesn't work at all, obviously it does. But it's one of several
complexities of standard sterndrive design that could easily be
simplified imho.

Rick