wrote:
On May 28, 10:30 pm, Larry wrote:
HK wrote in news:_t-
:

Not bad, Larry. Here, I just mostly watch the antics.
I noticed you've cooled off from the "old days"....(c;

I haven't been watching wrecked.boats for some time, but got bored so added
a few old groups I used to watch. It hasn't changed much in all these
years...scary if your motor is dead and some of them approach you on the
river.

No boats, tonight. Thunder/lightning/raining like hell earlier...

If you have not been here in a while, you may not understand why this
post is soooo ironic.. Anyway, just to fill you in, many of the more
serious regulars took a lot of their online time to a monitored group
Chuck Gould started about a month ago he
http://boatingforum.proboards91.com/

You will find that some stayed here, some frequent both groups, and
there are one or two who just come here to try to start trouble
between the two. There were three or four trolls at first, most of us
left here at wrecked boats decided not to converse with them here (on
any level) as you will notice if you stick around, and it has been a
lot nicer.

What has happened is that rec.boats is more vapid than ever.

"John" wrote in
:

interesting argument. What other company makes a 100 to 1 2 stroke
oil that AMSOIL is repackaging? Most all 2 stroke oils still recomend
50:1 but AMSOIL is 100:1?





Yamaha was recommending 100:1, at least the last time I checked but that
was quite a while ago. Maybe 100:1 wasn't making it to the end of the
warranty period and costing them money.

I can't find out anything about whos oil Amsoil is rebottling. I suspect
it might be because they buy oil on the open market, whoever's got the
API rating the cheapest. That makes sense both businesswise and
chemically. Everyone who thinks oil is different needs to take a little
trip to an oil ship terminal and poke his/her head down into the bilge to
see a little reality....

Oil, like fuel, comes from the oil market, a bunch of speculators and
other nasty beasts buying and selling the oil on its way across the
oceans to a large variety of refineries in some really terrible places.
India is building a new super-refinery to handle the demand. Mid East
crude will go to India to be refined into product and reshipped to the
USA. Do you think every little supertanker will have special oil for
every little oil company in America....or will they pour API SJ 15W-40
into a big tank and the corp beancounters will divvy it up at the
bottling plants.

I used to think oil was different, too, until I talked to the USCG
forensic oil lab in MD on the phone. I asked them if there was any
difference between Yamalube and Chevron TC-W3, as Chevron was making
Yamalube at the time, or so I thought.....

He told me he couldn't analyze ANY sample and come up with a brand name
on it because from same bottle to same bottle IT WAS ALL DIFFERENT!
This, I think, is more proof of the last statement in paragraph 3
above....they divvy it up and put their name on it, the cheapest way out
at the most profits, same as every corporation on the planet. The oil
lab said they could not point to a sample and say "That's Texaco TC-W3
you've got there." I was astonished, my vision of good oil smashed.

If you see a tanker that hauls products like gas, diesel, lube oils, do
try to get them to show you what's in those tanks before the slick
bottling plants get it. It floats on a layer of SEAWATER ballast! God
it was awful...yecch.

Of course, Amsoil is made one quart at a time in a clean room chemistry
lab by the finest chemical engineers on the planet who make every quart
in its own special way and analyze ever quart so you KNOW it's the finest
on the planet at the highest price.......right? Yeah, sure....(c;

On May 29, 9:32*am, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 05:13:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On May 28, 8:43*pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet..

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment..
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

wrote in news:46f38d0b-e4c0-49ee-a381-
:

One of the trolls may answer this, you will notice that most of us
left here will ignore the response.. we already know what it says
anyway

Nice to see you back Larry, stick around, we could use the input.

In case you don't know my new sock puppet, JWAFM (me) is Scotty from
SmallBoats.



I usually just ignore the trolls, even pointed at me. I'm 62 and retired
now and never get excited by much, except maybe by nuclear detonations too
close to home and anyone dicking around with my retirement deposits not
made exactly on time...(c;

I was just visiting as r.b.cruising seems to be slow with everyone going
sailing as Yankeeland thaws out and the snowbirds try to migrate North at
$6/gallon diesel prices. Even the rich people are leaving the monsters
tied to the docks, here. The sailors rejoice as the harbor is much nicer
to cruise around on without the big wakes. Even sails go up just outside
the entrance to the marinas, now, not after they clear the Battery wall.

Thanks for the invite. I don't like "regulated" groups, which is why I
stay on usenet where they can flail away at will. That's fine as long as
I'm out of arm's reach and they don't tip over my fine English ale.....

On May 29, 9:55*am, wrote:
On May 29, 9:32*am, John H. wrote:





On Thu, 29 May 2008 05:13:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On May 28, 8:43*pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.

On May 29, 10:00*am, wrote:

But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may
end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently.

Then they should trade their boat in for one of these:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg

--
John *H*- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That ain't backyard boating.. this is:http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21
- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Damn that canoe's sweet.- Hide quoted text -


Here's some more of the Warcanoe.. funny, a guy emailed me once. He
told me that a real war canoe was supposed to be 25-30 feet long and I
should maybe call mine a skirmish canoe

http://smallboats.com/boats_warcanoe.htm

Named after me mum...

wrote:


That ain't backyard boating.. this is:
http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21


Just,

I noticed your "Stupid Dog" photos. We have a Chow Mix (probably with a
German Shepard", that we adopted as a puppy. The rescue agency
"marketed" her as a Keeshond, because as a puppy she looked exactly like
a Keeshond puppy. We named her Rocky, after Rocky Marciano, because she
had that fat head and fat nose that Marciano had. She also had that
strong bull headed determination / attitude that made Marciano (a boxer
with little boxing skills) a success.

Chows can be very strong willed dogs, who do a great job of pretending
to be stupid. That way, they can do only what they want to do, and
pretend they don't understand you, it forced me to train her completely
differently than my other dogs, but she can be so lovable.

We took her up to the lake last week, and she fought to stay out of the
water, until she saw there was mud under the water. It was funny
watching her lying down in water 10" deep, trying to figure out how to
roll around in the mud without getting her face wet.

On Thu, 29 May 2008 06:55:53 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:



But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may
end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently.

Then they should trade their boat in for one of these:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg

--
John *H*- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That ain't backyard boating.. this is:
http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21


Holy ****! Do the neighbors not get on your case?

One time I was living on an Army post, and I had an old MGB GT in the
driveway. The engine, transmission radiator, hood, and all the other
assorted stuff removed to pull the engine, tranny and clutch was laying all
over the yard.

About six o'clock that night, I got a call from the Commanding General's
aide. He politely informed me that if my yard wasn't cleaned up by 0600 the
next morning, the moving trucks would be there to move me off post - at
*my* expense!

Luckily, I had some friends close by who would help, and by about three in
the morning we had the thing all back together. Close call!
--
John *H*

On Thu, 29 May 2008 07:10:12 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 29, 10:00*am, wrote:

But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may
end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently.

Then they should trade their boat in for one of these:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg

--
John *H*- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That ain't backyard boating.. this is:http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21
- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Damn that canoe's sweet.- Hide quoted text -


Here's some more of the Warcanoe.. funny, a guy emailed me once. He
told me that a real war canoe was supposed to be 25-30 feet long and I
should maybe call mine a skirmish canoe

http://smallboats.com/boats_warcanoe.htm

Named after me mum...

That is just too beautiful for words. It's truly a work of art, Scott.

I assume you're holding off on building my boat, "The Herring Skiff?"

http://www.smallboats.com/images/skiff2thb.jpg

Nice stuff!

--
John *H*

"HK" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 05:14:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On May 28, 8:48 pm, DK wrote:
Larry wrote:
HK wrote in
:
What do the oil manufacturers put into that fancy oil to meet the new
spec?
Nothing they weren't already putting in it.
I've been trying to find out what Amsoil puts in.....and where they
put it
in it. You'd think it'd be in giant tanks in a huge oil facility, not
dumped into a 55 gallon drum of oil from the lowest bidder. Such a
facility still illudes me. It's nowhere....
How ya been, Harry?
He's the same as always and still worth ignoring. Join the club - it
makes the group so much nicer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Harry calling a certified mechanic a "wag"......that's rich!

Loogy!

Check your email.

Package on the way, over.


I hope you didn't send him part of your brain, since you have so little
left.

Oh my!