On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:42:14 -0400, hk wrote:

Thanks to Bush, we don't have any diplomatic clout left, either, nor can
we claim we're on the high moral road.

Therefore, there isn't much we can do to "persuade" the Russkis to leave
Georgia and not to invade any of its other former satellites.

The Europeans are not going to take the Russkies on militarily, either,
but, unlike us, they are not in the diplomatic and moral cellar, and
they can do a lot more to force reasonable behavior than we can.

The Russians don't give a damn what we think about what they are doing.
They know we are not in a position to do dick about it.

My point is, this isn't about Georgia, it's about Russia. They are
letting the world know they are back, and *we* had better pay attention.

wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:42:14 -0400, hk wrote:

Thanks to Bush, we don't have any diplomatic clout left, either, nor can
we claim we're on the high moral road.

Therefore, there isn't much we can do to "persuade" the Russkis to leave
Georgia and not to invade any of its other former satellites.

The Europeans are not going to take the Russkies on militarily, either,
but, unlike us, they are not in the diplomatic and moral cellar, and
they can do a lot more to force reasonable behavior than we can.

The Russians don't give a damn what we think about what they are doing.
They know we are not in a position to do dick about it.

My point is, this isn't about Georgia, it's about Russia. They are
letting the world know they are back, and *we* had better pay attention.


You might find this interesting...it points out McCain's financial
relationships with neocon lobbyists who represent Georgia...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080813/...LUQ565oSJI2ocA



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"hk" wrote in message
. ..


The point is this: despite protestations from neocons and their camp
followers, the United States doesn't have the wherewithal to challenge any
large nuclear power, and we haven't had it for many decades.

Of course we do. But who wants to use it?


Thanks to Bush, we don't have any diplomatic clout left, either, nor can
we claim we're on the high moral road.

The situation in Georgia cannot be compared to Iraq, Afghanistan, or any
other "hot" spots".
It is unique and requires a unique response. Some say it is best to let it
resolve itself.


The Russians don't give a damn what we think about what they are doing.
They know we are not in a position to do dick about it.

At the moment, I agree. That's why we need to be prepared continuously.
It's a big, bad world out there.


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On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:54:05 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:42:14 -0400, hk wrote:

Thanks to Bush, we don't have any diplomatic clout left, either, nor can
we claim we're on the high moral road.

Therefore, there isn't much we can do to "persuade" the Russkis to leave
Georgia and not to invade any of its other former satellites.

The Europeans are not going to take the Russkies on militarily, either,
but, unlike us, they are not in the diplomatic and moral cellar, and
they can do a lot more to force reasonable behavior than we can.

The Russians don't give a damn what we think about what they are doing.
They know we are not in a position to do dick about it.

My point is, this isn't about Georgia, it's about Russia. They are
letting the world know they are back, and *we* had better pay attention.

For Putin it's a "national security" issue.
The internal "Russian" domestic issues were exacerbated by Bush's
lame-ass missile defense plans in that part of the world.
Putin doesn't want American missiles right on his border, and I don't
blame him. I don't want Russian missiles in Mexico or Canada.
American missiles in the Czech Republic today, Georgia tomorrow.
Bush refused to listen to Putin's protests about those missiles, and
now is getting spanked.
Simple diplomacy and strategic vision could have avoided this BS.
BTW, I heard Putin talking the other day about the "Georgian
Terroists" and making equivalencies with our invasion of Iraq.
Whether you buy that or not, it was George Bush who gave Putin that
card to play.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:54:05 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:42:14 -0400, hk wrote:

Thanks to Bush, we don't have any diplomatic clout left, either, nor can
we claim we're on the high moral road.

Therefore, there isn't much we can do to "persuade" the Russkis to leave
Georgia and not to invade any of its other former satellites.

The Europeans are not going to take the Russkies on militarily, either,
but, unlike us, they are not in the diplomatic and moral cellar, and
they can do a lot more to force reasonable behavior than we can.

The Russians don't give a damn what we think about what they are doing.
They know we are not in a position to do dick about it.
My point is, this isn't about Georgia, it's about Russia. They are
letting the world know they are back, and *we* had better pay attention.

For Putin it's a "national security" issue.
The internal "Russian" domestic issues were exacerbated by Bush's
lame-ass missile defense plans in that part of the world.
Putin doesn't want American missiles right on his border, and I don't
blame him. I don't want Russian missiles in Mexico or Canada.
American missiles in the Czech Republic today, Georgia tomorrow.
Bush refused to listen to Putin's protests about those missiles, and
now is getting spanked.
Simple diplomacy and strategic vision could have avoided this BS.
BTW, I heard Putin talking the other day about the "Georgian
Terroists" and making equivalencies with our invasion of Iraq.
Whether you buy that or not, it was George Bush who gave Putin that
card to play.

--Vic


McCain, speaking in Michigan a few minutes ago, said in the 21st
Century, nations do not invade other nations. Has he already forgotten
the U.S. invasion of Iraq?



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On Aug 13, 4:35*pm, hk wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:54:05 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:42:14 -0400, hk wrote:

Thanks to Bush, we don't have any diplomatic clout left, either, nor can
we claim we're on the high moral road.

Therefore, there isn't much we can do to "persuade" the Russkis to leave
Georgia and not to invade any of its other former satellites.

The Europeans are not going to take the Russkies on militarily, either,
but, unlike us, they are not in the diplomatic and moral cellar, and
they can do a lot more to force reasonable behavior than we can.

The Russians don't give a damn what we think about what they are doing.
They know we are not in a position to do dick about it.
My point is, this isn't about Georgia, it's about Russia. *They are
letting the world know they are back, and *we* had better pay attention.

wrote:
On Aug 13, 4:35 pm, hk wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:54:05 -0500, wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:42:14 -0400, hk wrote:
Thanks to Bush, we don't have any diplomatic clout left, either, nor can
we claim we're on the high moral road.
Therefore, there isn't much we can do to "persuade" the Russkis to leave
Georgia and not to invade any of its other former satellites.
The Europeans are not going to take the Russkies on militarily, either,
but, unlike us, they are not in the diplomatic and moral cellar, and
they can do a lot more to force reasonable behavior than we can.
The Russians don't give a damn what we think about what they are doing.
They know we are not in a position to do dick about it.
My point is, this isn't about Georgia, it's about Russia. They are
letting the world know they are back, and *we* had better pay attention.
For Putin it's a "national security" issue.
The internal "Russian" domestic issues were exacerbated by Bush's
lame-ass missile defense plans in that part of the world.
Putin doesn't want American missiles right on his border, and I don't
blame him. I don't want Russian missiles in Mexico or Canada.
American missiles in the Czech Republic today, Georgia tomorrow.
Bush refused to listen to Putin's protests about those missiles, and
now is getting spanked.
Simple diplomacy and strategic vision could have avoided this BS.
BTW, I heard Putin talking the other day about the "Georgian
Terroists" and making equivalencies with our invasion of Iraq.
Whether you buy that or not, it was George Bush who gave Putin that
card to play.
--Vic
McCain, speaking in Michigan a few minutes ago, said in the 21st
Century, nations do not invade other nations. Has he already forgotten
the U.S. invasion of Iraq?



You don't know ****.. Neocons, Bush's fault, nothing but party line
name calling ... and of course making it up as it comes off the DNC
faxes.. give it up. You started the day saying we should be doing
something.. the G7 and UN were talking the first day. Russia, China,
Iran, etc, just say what idiots like you want to hear, and you lick
their balls.. wafa.. Thousands are being ethnically cleansed, it's
Nazi Germany all over again. This invasion was planned for more than a
year, wouldn't doubt if Russian soldiers wore Georgian uniforms to
start the attack. Remember Hitler..


On the painkillers again, huh?

Read the "indirect" quote from McCain again...

....in the 21st Century, nations do not invade other nations..."

He said that.

I'm sure Putin thought, "well, what about Iraq?"

Not that Putin's invasion of Georgia was justified.
Neither was our invasion of Iraq.

BTW, when I said Bush should do something, I was referring to diplomatic
measures, not military measures. There's nothing we can do with the
Russians that involves taking military measures against them. We can
only beat up bitty nations, and not even those sometime.



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voting for Barack Obama!

"hk" wrote in message
news
wrote:
On Aug 13, 4:35 pm, hk wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:54:05 -0500, wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:42:14 -0400, hk wrote:
Thanks to Bush, we don't have any diplomatic clout left, either, nor
can
we claim we're on the high moral road.
Therefore, there isn't much we can do to "persuade" the Russkis to
leave
Georgia and not to invade any of its other former satellites.
The Europeans are not going to take the Russkies on militarily,
either,
but, unlike us, they are not in the diplomatic and moral cellar, and
they can do a lot more to force reasonable behavior than we can.
The Russians don't give a damn what we think about what they are
doing.
They know we are not in a position to do dick about it.
My point is, this isn't about Georgia, it's about Russia. They are
letting the world know they are back, and *we* had better pay
attention.
For Putin it's a "national security" issue.
The internal "Russian" domestic issues were exacerbated by Bush's
lame-ass missile defense plans in that part of the world.
Putin doesn't want American missiles right on his border, and I don't
blame him. I don't want Russian missiles in Mexico or Canada.
American missiles in the Czech Republic today, Georgia tomorrow.
Bush refused to listen to Putin's protests about those missiles, and
now is getting spanked.
Simple diplomacy and strategic vision could have avoided this BS.
BTW, I heard Putin talking the other day about the "Georgian
Terroists" and making equivalencies with our invasion of Iraq.
Whether you buy that or not, it was George Bush who gave Putin that
card to play. --Vic
McCain, speaking in Michigan a few minutes ago, said in the 21st
Century, nations do not invade other nations. Has he already forgotten
the U.S. invasion of Iraq?



You don't know ****.. Neocons, Bush's fault, nothing but party line
name calling ... and of course making it up as it comes off the DNC
faxes.. give it up. You started the day saying we should be doing
something.. the G7 and UN were talking the first day. Russia, China,
Iran, etc, just say what idiots like you want to hear, and you lick
their balls.. wafa.. Thousands are being ethnically cleansed, it's
Nazi Germany all over again. This invasion was planned for more than a
year, wouldn't doubt if Russian soldiers wore Georgian uniforms to
start the attack. Remember Hitler..


On the painkillers again, huh?

Read the "indirect" quote from McCain again...

...in the 21st Century, nations do not invade other nations..."



You're taking it in the literal sense. I'm not so sure that's the way he
meant it. If I'm right, he most certainly should have expressed it
differently.





He said that.

I'm sure Putin thought, "well, what about Iraq?"

Not that Putin's invasion of Georgia was justified.
Neither was our invasion of Iraq.

BTW, when I said Bush should do something, I was referring to diplomatic
measures, not military measures. There's nothing we can do with the
Russians that involves taking military measures against them. We can only
beat up bitty nations, and not even those sometime.



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Join the growing number of Republicans putting country ahead of party by
voting for Barack Obama!

D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
news
wrote:
On Aug 13, 4:35 pm, hk wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:54:05 -0500, wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:42:14 -0400, hk wrote:
Thanks to Bush, we don't have any diplomatic clout left, either, nor
can
we claim we're on the high moral road.
Therefore, there isn't much we can do to "persuade" the Russkis to
leave
Georgia and not to invade any of its other former satellites.
The Europeans are not going to take the Russkies on militarily,
either,
but, unlike us, they are not in the diplomatic and moral cellar, and
they can do a lot more to force reasonable behavior than we can.
The Russians don't give a damn what we think about what they are
doing.
They know we are not in a position to do dick about it.
My point is, this isn't about Georgia, it's about Russia. They are
letting the world know they are back, and *we* had better pay
attention.
For Putin it's a "national security" issue.
The internal "Russian" domestic issues were exacerbated by Bush's
lame-ass missile defense plans in that part of the world.
Putin doesn't want American missiles right on his border, and I don't
blame him. I don't want Russian missiles in Mexico or Canada.
American missiles in the Czech Republic today, Georgia tomorrow.
Bush refused to listen to Putin's protests about those missiles, and
now is getting spanked.
Simple diplomacy and strategic vision could have avoided this BS.
BTW, I heard Putin talking the other day about the "Georgian
Terroists" and making equivalencies with our invasion of Iraq.
Whether you buy that or not, it was George Bush who gave Putin that
card to play. --Vic
McCain, speaking in Michigan a few minutes ago, said in the 21st
Century, nations do not invade other nations. Has he already forgotten
the U.S. invasion of Iraq?


You don't know ****.. Neocons, Bush's fault, nothing but party line
name calling ... and of course making it up as it comes off the DNC
faxes.. give it up. You started the day saying we should be doing
something.. the G7 and UN were talking the first day. Russia, China,
Iran, etc, just say what idiots like you want to hear, and you lick
their balls.. wafa.. Thousands are being ethnically cleansed, it's
Nazi Germany all over again. This invasion was planned for more than a
year, wouldn't doubt if Russian soldiers wore Georgian uniforms to
start the attack. Remember Hitler..

On the painkillers again, huh?

Read the "indirect" quote from McCain again...

...in the 21st Century, nations do not invade other nations..."



You're taking it in the literal sense. I'm not so sure that's the way he
meant it. If I'm right, he most certainly should have expressed it
differently.



Oh...well maybe McCain should have said, "Don't take this seriously, but
in the 21st Century, nations do not invade other nations."

There.

Fixed.






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voting for Barack Obama!

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:21:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:54:05 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:42:14 -0400, hk wrote:

Thanks to Bush, we don't have any diplomatic clout left, either, nor can
we claim we're on the high moral road.

Therefore, there isn't much we can do to "persuade" the Russkis to leave
Georgia and not to invade any of its other former satellites.

The Europeans are not going to take the Russkies on militarily, either,
but, unlike us, they are not in the diplomatic and moral cellar, and
they can do a lot more to force reasonable behavior than we can.

The Russians don't give a damn what we think about what they are doing.
They know we are not in a position to do dick about it.

My point is, this isn't about Georgia, it's about Russia. They are
letting the world know they are back, and *we* had better pay attention.

For Putin it's a "national security" issue.
The internal "Russian" domestic issues were exacerbated by Bush's
lame-ass missile defense plans in that part of the world.
Putin doesn't want American missiles right on his border, and I don't
blame him. I don't want Russian missiles in Mexico or Canada.
American missiles in the Czech Republic today, Georgia tomorrow.
Bush refused to listen to Putin's protests about those missiles, and
now is getting spanked.
Simple diplomacy and strategic vision could have avoided this BS.
BTW, I heard Putin talking the other day about the "Georgian
Terroists" and making equivalencies with our invasion of Iraq.
Whether you buy that or not, it was George Bush who gave Putin that
card to play.

--Vic

That last line was written by George Soros, no?
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** Good Day! **

John H