wrote:
On Aug 17, 5:00 pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:06:05 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I dont want to cause a ruckus on this obviously touchy topic, but why
are some boats meant to be used offshore have low transoms? Is it bad
design or is there really a reason? On sailboats, so-called "sugar
scoop" transoms are popular on some modern boats with the reasoning
that it enables the cockpit to drain. This requires a seriously high
bridge deck into the cabin and I simply would not trust such a thing
offshore. I will admit my sailboat cockpit drains are too small.
On the subject of cockpit drains for powerboats, should one put more
effort in keeping water out or in draining the cockpit once it is in?
Currently, I have no large drain in my Tolman but am installing the
largest bilge pump I can find (3500 gph). I also have no decking
installed because I want to be able to see my hull and how much water
I have accumulated.
The Tolmans look to be nice boats.
Note the transom on this Jumbo.http://www.fishyfish.com/bobbruce/index.html
A simple answer to your questions would be to e-mail these diveboat
guys. I'm thinking they take the boat offshore.
I did a little reading about the glue-and-stitch process, and far as I
can tell if properly done such boats are as strong or stronger than
any other method.
Seems to me that the stitch and glue method used to build monocoque
hulls can be incorporated with additional framing either during or
after the hull construction, and some of pics I've seen of Tolmans
seem to show interior framing that probably wasn't in the original
specs.
How much does your Tolman weigh and have you ever checked
gas consumption? If I was a bit younger I would really consider
building one.

--Vic

Mine is a 20' Standard so weighs less than the Jumbo. I remember some
controversy when those guys wee building over the severe cut-away
transom for use as a dive boat. My 20' seems to weigh very little but
I am not really sure. SHe does get pushed around by waves but I
cannot compare to anything else except an 8000 lb sailboat. Fuel
economy is roughly 4-4.5 mpg with 6 people aboard using a 90 hp 2cycle
Yamaha. I used the 90 hp rather than the smaller engine Tolman reccs
because I knew I would always have about 5 ppl aboard.



You're going to go that far offshore in the Atlantic Ocean in a
lightweight 20' outboard boat with a 90 hp engine? I thought I was crazy
when I went 20 miles offshore of St. Augustine in stout vee-bottom 18-21
foot fiberglass boats with big engines.


Quint: "Anti-shark cage. You go inside the cage? Cage goes in the water?
You go in the water? Shark's in the water, our shark. Farewell and adieu
to you fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain.
For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston. And so nevermore
shall we be seeing you again."

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:16:09 -0400, hk wrote:



You're going to go that far offshore in the Atlantic Ocean in a
lightweight 20' outboard boat with a 90 hp engine? I thought I was crazy
when I went 20 miles offshore of St. Augustine in stout vee-bottom 18-21
foot fiberglass boats with big engines.


Quint: "Anti-shark cage. You go inside the cage? Cage goes in the water?
You go in the water? Shark's in the water, our shark. Farewell and adieu
to you fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain.
For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston. And so nevermore
shall we be seeing you again."

Some CS fishermen in 24's go out 20-40 miles, but the day has to be
right. I recall reading about one who mingled, much to the surprise
of the charters, in "The Canyons."
Also heard they used to race Sunfish from Lauderdale to Bimini.
Personally, in an open boat I'd go only with a flotilla.
On the right day.

--Vic

On Aug 17, 5:28 pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:16:09 -0400, hk wrote:

You're going to go that far offshore in the Atlantic Ocean in a
lightweight 20' outboard boat with a 90 hp engine? I thought I was crazy
when I went 20 miles offshore of St. Augustine in stout vee-bottom 18-21
foot fiberglass boats with big engines.

Quint: "Anti-shark cage. You go inside the cage? Cage goes in the water?
You go in the water? Shark's in the water, our shark. Farewell and adieu
to you fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain.
For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston. And so nevermore
shall we be seeing you again."

Some CS fishermen in 24's go out 20-40 miles, but the day has to be
right. I recall reading about one who mingled, much to the surprise
of the charters, in "The Canyons."
Also heard they used to race Sunfish from Lauderdale to Bimini.
Personally, in an open boat I'd go only with a flotilla.
On the right day.

--Vic

I'll admit, "The things I'd like to do always exceed my abilities".
This means I do not do most of what I want to do.

wrote in message
...


I believe that statistics bear me out when it comes to boats sinking
due to waves over the transom. All you have to do is look at BOAT-US
statistics. It seems to happen a lot.

It's not simply an issue of having a "low transom". It's also how the boat
naturally drains water taken aboard.

Most small boats don't have scuppers. They have small diameter drains,
connected via hoses to an outlet somewhere at or below the water line on the
transom. I've been in some small CC's that, if one stands near the
transom, water will backfill into the boat. despite the silly little ball
check valves or rubber flappers that never work.

To me, taking a greenie or greenies into a boat from any direction, and then
having to empty the boat by relying on powering up enough to quickly remove
the water "over" the low transom is a recipe for eventual disaster. A
couple of heavy hits in a matter of 10 seconds or so can cause a serious
problem.

As for taking water on water "over" the low transom (which you then have
to get rid of before you take more and eventually swamp), I've seen cases
where, in rough conditions, water comes aboard faster than you can possibly
get rid of by powering up and hoping it runs out of the boat, over the
transom. The silly little drains aren't big enough to get the job done.

Eisboch

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:16:09 -0400, hk wrote:


You're going to go that far offshore in the Atlantic Ocean in a
lightweight 20' outboard boat with a 90 hp engine? I thought I was crazy
when I went 20 miles offshore of St. Augustine in stout vee-bottom 18-21
foot fiberglass boats with big engines.


Quint: "Anti-shark cage. You go inside the cage? Cage goes in the water?
You go in the water? Shark's in the water, our shark. Farewell and adieu
to you fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain.
For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston. And so nevermore
shall we be seeing you again."

Some CS fishermen in 24's go out 20-40 miles, but the day has to be
right. I recall reading about one who mingled, much to the surprise
of the charters, in "The Canyons."
Also heard they used to race Sunfish from Lauderdale to Bimini.
Personally, in an open boat I'd go only with a flotilla.
On the right day.

--Vic
Yeah, I've done that in small boats, but not by myself. That flotilla
should include a hefty ocean-capable boat captained by someone with
ocean experience.

On Aug 17, 6:18 pm, hk wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:16:09 -0400, hk wrote:

You're going to go that far offshore in the Atlantic Ocean in a
lightweight 20' outboard boat with a 90 hp engine? I thought I was crazy
when I went 20 miles offshore of St. Augustine in stout vee-bottom 18-21
foot fiberglass boats with big engines.

Quint: "Anti-shark cage. You go inside the cage? Cage goes in the water?
You go in the water? Shark's in the water, our shark. Farewell and adieu
to you fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain.
For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston. And so nevermore
shall we be seeing you again."

Some CS fishermen in 24's go out 20-40 miles, but the day has to be
right. I recall reading about one who mingled, much to the surprise
of the charters, in "The Canyons."
Also heard they used to race Sunfish from Lauderdale to Bimini.
Personally, in an open boat I'd go only with a flotilla.
On the right day.

--Vic

Yeah, I've done that in small boats, but not by myself. That flotilla
should include a hefty ocean-capable boat captained by someone with
ocean experience.

A friend of mine actually made the longer trip from Ft. Lauderdale to
West End (65 miles) on a waverunner. However, to be safe, there were
two of them. One of them was a 2 cycle model but neither had
sufficient fuel capacity so they carried 5 gal cans but had to devise
a way to re-fuel in chop via a long hose fitted to a hand pump on the
can. THEN, thy came back the same way. I figger my way is safer.

wrote:
On Aug 17, 6:18 pm, hk wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:16:09 -0400, hk wrote:
You're going to go that far offshore in the Atlantic Ocean in a
lightweight 20' outboard boat with a 90 hp engine? I thought I was crazy
when I went 20 miles offshore of St. Augustine in stout vee-bottom 18-21
foot fiberglass boats with big engines.
Quint: "Anti-shark cage. You go inside the cage? Cage goes in the water?
You go in the water? Shark's in the water, our shark. Farewell and adieu
to you fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain.
For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston. And so nevermore
shall we be seeing you again."
Some CS fishermen in 24's go out 20-40 miles, but the day has to be
right. I recall reading about one who mingled, much to the surprise
of the charters, in "The Canyons."
Also heard they used to race Sunfish from Lauderdale to Bimini.
Personally, in an open boat I'd go only with a flotilla.
On the right day.
--Vic
Yeah, I've done that in small boats, but not by myself. That flotilla
should include a hefty ocean-capable boat captained by someone with
ocean experience.

A friend of mine actually made the longer trip from Ft. Lauderdale to
West End (65 miles) on a waverunner. However, to be safe, there were
two of them. One of them was a 2 cycle model but neither had
sufficient fuel capacity so they carried 5 gal cans but had to devise
a way to re-fuel in chop via a long hose fitted to a hand pump on the
can. THEN, thy came back the same way. I figger my way is safer.


--


All sorts of people do all sorts of stupid things in boats. Just because
it has been done doesn't mean it is reasonable, unless you don't
highly value your own life.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:00:13 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

The Tolmans look to be nice boats.
Note the transom on this Jumbo.
http://www.fishyfish.com/bobbruce/index.html
A simple answer to your questions would be to e-mail these diveboat
guys. I'm thinking they take the boat offshore.

The big risk is getting caught by a thunder squall in the Gulf Stream
and capsized by a breaking wave. It happens to small boats all of the
time. Size matters when it comes to capsize resistance, quality of
construction matters little.

I would not be comfortable doing that trip in anything much under 28
ft. Unless you've been out there in a squall you just can not
appreciate the size and power of the waves that are created. The
strong currents of the Gulf Stream magnify the effect by causing the
waves to become steep, breaking and confused. People and boats are
lost all the time. It's almost routine.

On Aug 17, 6:59 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:00:13 -0500, Vic Smith

wrote:
The Tolmans look to be nice boats.
Note the transom on this Jumbo.
http://www.fishyfish.com/bobbruce/index.html
A simple answer to your questions would be to e-mail these diveboat
guys. I'm thinking they take the boat offshore.

The big risk is getting caught by a thunder squall in the Gulf Stream
and capsized by a breaking wave. It happens to small boats all of the
time. Size matters when it comes to capsize resistance, quality of
construction matters little.

I would not be comfortable doing that trip in anything much under 28
ft. Unless you've been out there in a squall you just can not
appreciate the size and power of the waves that are created. The
strong currents of the Gulf Stream magnify the effect by causing the
waves to become steep, breaking and confused. People and boats are
lost all the time. It's almost routine.

I have not yet had the Tolman out in a thunderstorm although I have
had my 28' sailboat out in them. I will not go out looking for them
for the experience.

On Aug 17, 6:59 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:00:13 -0500, Vic Smith

wrote:
The Tolmans look to be nice boats.
Note the transom on this Jumbo.
http://www.fishyfish.com/bobbruce/index.html
A simple answer to your questions would be to e-mail these diveboat
guys. I'm thinking they take the boat offshore.

The big risk is getting caught by a thunder squall in the Gulf Stream
and capsized by a breaking wave. It happens to small boats all of the
time. Size matters when it comes to capsize resistance, quality of
construction matters little.

I would not be comfortable doing that trip in anything much under 28
ft. Unless you've been out there in a squall you just can not
appreciate the size and power of the waves that are created. The
strong currents of the Gulf Stream magnify the effect by causing the
waves to become steep, breaking and confused. People and boats are
lost all the time. It's almost routine.

I too think such thunderstorms are the major consideration.