On Aug 18, 1:46*pm, hk wrote:


The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman.
It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating
experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience.


Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite
construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just
need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often
times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or
edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your
constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here.

On Aug 18, 1:21 pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:29 pm, wrote:



On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote:

On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote:

I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. From what I can see, self bailing is installed on
boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck.
My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to
the hull at all times. My current floatation is from two compartments
with screw on covers at bow and stern. I can even get into them if
necessary. This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far
above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. Instead,
I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides)
and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large
3500 gph pump just in case. From my reading, I see that scuppers seem
to cause a lot of problems too. However, one web site stated flatly
that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. So, thoughts?

It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. And 3500 gph
is under extremely ideal conditions. Best figure that your real world
results would be about half that. That's about 30 gpm. If you take
multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. Make sure you
travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited
to be offshore. It's not that you can't make the trip successfully
given the correct conditions. It's that many combinations of things
can rapidly overwhelm you. Simply encountering a small storm and then
having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle.

I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too.
BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left
the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the
stringers (8"). I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and
it took 5 min. The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take
about 65 sec. I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of
the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You don't understand. You don't get 5 minutes between waves. You
don't even get 30 seconds. If you lose engine power is a squall and
can't keep the bow into the waves then you're in big trouble. If you
start taking waves over the side or transom then in very short order
you'e going to be swamped. Each wave is going to lower your boat so
that the next wave dumps in even more water. We talking just a
handful of waves before you are swamped. Your kicker will not be
strong enough in storm. The wind and waves will overwhelm a 9.8 hp
motor. Maybe it clears up fast and you still have enough battery
power to pump it out. The battery will die fast once salt water gets
to it.

Bottom line you need to have someone around that can pick you up if
the worst happens.

This is a homebuilt? Do you know that your floatation will keep the
boat afloat when swamped? How did you calculate the flotation? Have
you tested it? Or do you just "think" it's enough? Take it out into
a couple feet of water some place with a sandy bottom and where you
can get a rope to a tow vehicle on shore then sink it. See what
happens. If it sinks to the bottom just drag it towards the shore
until you can pump it out.

I have built smaller boats and tried various forms of floatation.
Great Stuff is not so great for boats. It actually absorbs water. It
also sticks to everything. A better thing to do is packing peanuts
contained in bags. The foam must be removable in order to be able to
inspect the hull. I will put the closed cell foam blocks into mesh
bags inside the float compartments.
I calculated the floatation based on weight of the boat (estimated at
800 lbs) plus the weight of the two motors and doubled that. BTW, the
hull has positive buoyancy anyway.
I have looked at commercially available scuppers and they seem to be a
joke. A 1.5" hole with a strainer that covers up 30% at least? This
is s'posed to empty your boat in less than 90 secs, not likely, even
with two of them as most "offshore" boats have will not do it in less
than 5 minutes. A bilge pump really is faster. The only scupper
worthwhile would seem to be very large but unless I had a deck they
would be useless. I have seen very few "offshore" boats with such
huge scuppers.
My transom is very high as are the sides. Compared to most other
boats drifting with no power, I am much better off, even compared to
most "offshore boats" because I have so much more reserve than they
do.
I also intend to buy a drift anchor just in case both engines die to
keep her head into the wind.
Can a 9.8 hp keep her pointed into the wind in a storm, the answer
seems to be "yes". My 8000 lb sailboat with much greater windage came
with only a 6.5 hp diesel that had no problem keeping the head into
the wind in several thunderstorms.

On Aug 18, 1:56*pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:21 pm, wrote:





On Aug 18, 12:29 pm, wrote:

On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote:

On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote:

I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. *From what I can see, self bailing is installed on
boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck.
My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to
the hull at all times. *My current floatation is from two compartments
with screw on covers at bow and stern. *I can even get into them if
necessary. *This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far
above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. *Instead,
I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides)
and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large
3500 gph pump just in case. *From my reading, I see that scuppers seem
to cause a lot of problems too. *However, one web site stated flatly
that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. *So, thoughts?

It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. *And 3500 gph
is under extremely ideal conditions. *Best figure that your real world
results would be about half that. *That's about 30 gpm. *If you take
multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. *Make sure you
travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited
to be offshore. *It's not that you can't make the trip successfully
given the correct conditions. *It's that many combinations of things
can rapidly overwhelm you. *Simply encountering a small storm and then
having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle.

I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too.
BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left
the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the
stringers (8"). *I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and
it took 5 min. *The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take
about 65 sec. *I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of
the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You don't understand. *You don't get 5 minutes between waves. *You
don't even get 30 seconds. *If you lose engine power is a squall and
can't keep the bow into the waves then you're in big trouble. *If you
start taking waves over the side or transom then in very short order
you'e going to be swamped. *Each wave is going to lower your boat so
that the next wave dumps in even more water. *We talking just a
handful of waves before you are swamped. *Your kicker will not be
strong enough in storm. *The wind and waves will overwhelm a 9.8 hp
motor. *Maybe it clears up fast and you still have enough battery
power to pump it out. *The battery will die fast once salt water gets
to it.

Bottom line you need to have someone around that can pick you up if
the worst happens.

This is a homebuilt? *Do you know that your floatation will keep the
boat afloat when swamped? *How did you calculate the flotation? *Have
you tested it? *Or do you just "think" it's enough? *Take it out into
a couple feet of water some place with a sandy bottom and where you
can get a rope to a tow vehicle on shore then sink it. *See what
happens. *If it sinks to the bottom just drag it towards the shore
until you can pump it out.

I have built smaller boats and tried various forms of floatation.
Great Stuff is not so great for boats. *It actually absorbs water. *It
also sticks to everything. *A better thing to do is packing peanuts
contained in bags. *The foam must be removable in order to be able to
inspect the hull. *I will put the closed cell foam blocks into mesh
bags inside the float compartments.
I calculated the floatation based on weight of the boat (estimated at
800 lbs) plus the weight of the two motors and doubled that. *BTW, the
hull has positive buoyancy anyway.
I have looked at commercially available scuppers and they seem to be a
joke. *A 1.5" hole with a strainer that covers up 30% at least? *This
is s'posed to empty your boat in less than 90 secs, not likely, even
with two of them as most "offshore" boats have will not do it in less
than 5 minutes. *A bilge pump really is faster. *The only scupper
worthwhile would seem to be very large but unless I had a deck they
would be useless. *I have seen very few "offshore" boats with such
huge scuppers.
My transom is very high as are the sides. *Compared to most other
boats drifting with no power, I am much better off, even compared to
most "offshore boats" because I have so much more reserve than they
do.
I also intend to buy a drift anchor just in case both engines die to
keep her head into the wind.
Can a 9.8 hp keep her pointed into the wind in a storm, the answer
seems to be "yes". *My 8000 lb sailboat with much greater windage came
with only a 6.5 hp diesel that had no problem keeping the head into
the wind in several thunderstorms.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you do this alone then you place little value on your life. It's
just that simple.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:56:46 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Aug 18, 1:46*pm, hk wrote:


The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman.
It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating
experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience.


Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite
construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just
need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often
times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or
edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your
constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here.

You talk out of your ass constantly, Scotty... or maybe it's just your
breath.

wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:46 pm, hk wrote:

The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman.
It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating
experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience.


Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite
construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just
need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often
times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or
edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your
constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here.


Once again, I point out you have little or no experience building
ocean-capable boats or operating same. No experience means no
experience. You build dinghies and rowboats, none of which I would take
into the ocean, and most of which I would not take into Long Island Sound.

Further, the other day you vehemently denied that Tolman skiffs
incorporated stitch and glue construction, an opinion shot to hell by
Renn Tolman himself, the designer of these boats.

Finally, you have a cavalier attitude towards the value of life, as
evidenced by your allowing, even encouraging, your minor child's
participation in motorcycle racing.

What O'Hara does is his decision. He has been asking for advice that
relates to his personal safety in undertaking a 50-mile ocean voyage in
a very light, small boat. Reasonable posters with ocean experience have
advised against him making the trip in that boat.

--
I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do
something. And because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do
the something that I can do. What I can do, I should do. And what I
should do, by the grace of God, I will do.

— Edward Everett Hale (1822-1909)

On Aug 18, 2:50 pm, hk wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:46 pm, hk wrote:

The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman.
It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating
experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience.

Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite
construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just
need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often
times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or
edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your
constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here.

Once again, I point out you have little or no experience building
ocean-capable boats or operating same. No experience means no
experience. You build dinghies and rowboats, none of which I would take
into the ocean, and most of which I would not take into Long Island Sound..

Further, the other day you vehemently denied that Tolman skiffs
incorporated stitch and glue construction, an opinion shot to hell by
Renn Tolman himself, the designer of these boats.

Finally, you have a cavalier attitude towards the value of life, as
evidenced by your allowing, even encouraging, your minor child's
participation in motorcycle racing.

What O'Hara does is his decision. He has been asking for advice that
relates to his personal safety in undertaking a 50-mile ocean voyage in
a very light, small boat. Reasonable posters with ocean experience have
advised against him making the trip in that boat.

--
I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do
something. And because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do
the something that I can do. What I can do, I should do. And what I
should do, by the grace of God, I will do.

— Edward Everett Hale (1822-1909)

Look guys, this is all in fun. Sure, I'd like to do this but I do
value my life. Maybe I will if I can convince myself that I need some
more adventure but maybe not too. Wouldnt any of you even be tempted
to try this?

wrote:
On Aug 18, 2:50 pm, hk wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:46 pm, hk wrote:
The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman.
It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating
experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience.
Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite
construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just
need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often
times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or
edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your
constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here.
Once again, I point out you have little or no experience building
ocean-capable boats or operating same. No experience means no
experience. You build dinghies and rowboats, none of which I would take
into the ocean, and most of which I would not take into Long Island Sound.

Further, the other day you vehemently denied that Tolman skiffs
incorporated stitch and glue construction, an opinion shot to hell by
Renn Tolman himself, the designer of these boats.

Finally, you have a cavalier attitude towards the value of life, as
evidenced by your allowing, even encouraging, your minor child's
participation in motorcycle racing.

What O'Hara does is his decision. He has been asking for advice that
relates to his personal safety in undertaking a 50-mile ocean voyage in
a very light, small boat. Reasonable posters with ocean experience have
advised against him making the trip in that boat.

--
I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do
something. And because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do
the something that I can do. What I can do, I should do. And what I
should do, by the grace of God, I will do.

— Edward Everett Hale (1822-1909)

Look guys, this is all in fun. Sure, I'd like to do this but I do
value my life. Maybe I will if I can convince myself that I need some
more adventure but maybe not too. Wouldnt any of you even be tempted
to try this?


Not in a boat like yours...or mine. Too small. Not in my former Parker,
either, even though the boat was capable. It only had one engine. Now,
if I had an aux engine on that boat, I would have considered the trip.

--
I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do
something. And because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do
the something that I can do. What I can do, I should do. And what I
should do, by the grace of God, I will do.

— Edward Everett Hale (1822-1909)

On Aug 18, 3:17 pm, hk wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 18, 2:50 pm, hk wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:46 pm, hk wrote:
The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman.

On Aug 18, 3:17*pm, hk wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 18, 2:50 pm, hk wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:46 pm, hk wrote:
The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:11:06 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:



Look guys, this is all in fun. Sure, I'd like to do this but I do
value my life. Maybe I will if I can convince myself that I need some
more adventure but maybe not too. Wouldnt any of you even be tempted
to try this?

Only with a deck, good scuppers and flotation, in a flotilla, on the
right day.

--Vic