Why this was rejected, I don't know, the keyword it noted, is not in
the post.... Anyway, here is my attempt to bring things back into
perspective.. Trolls and posers will be ignored..

SNIP
First off, I need to apologize for not sticking to it in the first
place.. Anyway, one poster suggested I don't know anything because I
question Tolmanns' decision to call his boat a "stitch and tape". I
will note that the whole quote was more "stitch and tape, OR composite
type".. Toleman was doing what a lot of modern plan builders do, using
familiar terms the prospective "non boat builder", builder will
understand. The Toleman for instance calls for one area to be
stitched, but it is certainly not a stitch and tape boat, it is a
composite, skin on frame. IIRC the frame of chines, stringers, and
bulkheads. Many times we use more familiar terms.. I don't call a
Gunnels, a shear strake, I don't call a seat, a thwart, I don't use
terms like "get out the wood"...It would just server to confuse a
newb, and for no productive reason, save ego in this day and age..
Toleman uses terms that folks won't have to go look up, and calling a
s+t boat, a composite, or vice versa, is no big deal, and not really
all that far off. To suggest because someone knows the difference and
though it might be useful in the context of a boating forum...


Stitch and tape boats are typically self jigging, and built with
precut and sized parts. Using tools such as a Spanish Windlass and
pulling the parts together, form the shape. They gain their strength
via a false "frame" which is created at the intersection of curved
laminate, adhered
against each others angles, creating very strong and stable joints. If
engineered properly, they are stable in all directions and are usually
made with resin and glass. The biggest difference between
stitch and tape, and skin on frame is, on a skin on frame, wood or
another material create a frame, the skins are bent around them. With
S+T the frame itself is created by the strength created at the
intersections of the curved laminate sheets..

I remember when I was a kid, some add that had a Volkswagen sitting on
a simple sheet of curved plywood. A very slight curve in a laminate
created a huge amount of structure, but you all knew that...

UNSNIP

The keyword that was noted was "liar" but I don't see where it got
that... Have fun, trolls will be ignored...

wrote in message
...
Why this was rejected, I don't know, the keyword it noted, is not in
the post.... Anyway, here is my attempt to bring things back into
perspective.. Trolls and posers will be ignored..

SNIP
First off, I need to apologize for not sticking to it in the first
place.. Anyway, one poster suggested I don't know anything because I
question Tolmanns' decision to call his boat a "stitch and tape". I
will note that the whole quote was more "stitch and tape, OR composite
type".. Toleman was doing what a lot of modern plan builders do, using
familiar terms the prospective "non boat builder", builder will
understand. The Toleman for instance calls for one area to be
stitched, but it is certainly not a stitch and tape boat, it is a
composite, skin on frame. IIRC the frame of chines, stringers, and
bulkheads. Many times we use more familiar terms.. I don't call a
Gunnels, a shear strake, I don't call a seat, a thwart, I don't use
terms like "get out the wood"...It would just server to confuse a
newb, and for no productive reason, save ego in this day and age..
Toleman uses terms that folks won't have to go look up, and calling a
s+t boat, a composite, or vice versa, is no big deal, and not really
all that far off. To suggest because someone knows the difference and
though it might be useful in the context of a boating forum...


Stitch and tape boats are typically self jigging, and built with
precut and sized parts. Using tools such as a Spanish Windlass and
pulling the parts together, form the shape. They gain their strength
via a false "frame" which is created at the intersection of curved
laminate, adhered
against each others angles, creating very strong and stable joints. If
engineered properly, they are stable in all directions and are usually
made with resin and glass. The biggest difference between
stitch and tape, and skin on frame is, on a skin on frame, wood or
another material create a frame, the skins are bent around them. With
S+T the frame itself is created by the strength created at the
intersections of the curved laminate sheets..

I remember when I was a kid, some add that had a Volkswagen sitting on
a simple sheet of curved plywood. A very slight curve in a laminate
created a huge amount of structure, but you all knew that...

UNSNIP

The keyword that was noted was "liar" but I don't see where it got
that... Have fun, trolls will be ignored...


I don't know what you are apologizing for. The boats you build are well
beyond the capabilities of the majority of us.

Your skin is too thin, my friend.

Eisboch

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:37:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


wrote in message
...
Why this was rejected, I don't know, the keyword it noted, is not in
the post.... Anyway, here is my attempt to bring things back into
perspective.. Trolls and posers will be ignored..

SNIP
First off, I need to apologize for not sticking to it in the first
place.. Anyway, one poster suggested I don't know anything because I
question Tolmanns' decision to call his boat a "stitch and tape". I
will note that the whole quote was more "stitch and tape, OR composite
type".. Toleman was doing what a lot of modern plan builders do, using
familiar terms the prospective "non boat builder", builder will
understand. The Toleman for instance calls for one area to be
stitched, but it is certainly not a stitch and tape boat, it is a
composite, skin on frame. IIRC the frame of chines, stringers, and
bulkheads. Many times we use more familiar terms.. I don't call a
Gunnels, a shear strake, I don't call a seat, a thwart, I don't use
terms like "get out the wood"...It would just server to confuse a
newb, and for no productive reason, save ego in this day and age..
Toleman uses terms that folks won't have to go look up, and calling a
s+t boat, a composite, or vice versa, is no big deal, and not really
all that far off. To suggest because someone knows the difference and
though it might be useful in the context of a boating forum...


Stitch and tape boats are typically self jigging, and built with
precut and sized parts. Using tools such as a Spanish Windlass and
pulling the parts together, form the shape. They gain their strength
via a false "frame" which is created at the intersection of curved
laminate, adhered
against each others angles, creating very strong and stable joints. If
engineered properly, they are stable in all directions and are usually
made with resin and glass. The biggest difference between
stitch and tape, and skin on frame is, on a skin on frame, wood or
another material create a frame, the skins are bent around them. With
S+T the frame itself is created by the strength created at the
intersections of the curved laminate sheets..

I remember when I was a kid, some add that had a Volkswagen sitting on
a simple sheet of curved plywood. A very slight curve in a laminate
created a huge amount of structure, but you all knew that...

UNSNIP

The keyword that was noted was "liar" but I don't see where it got
that... Have fun, trolls will be ignored...


I don't know what you are apologizing for. The boats you build are well
beyond the capabilities of the majority of us.

Your skin is too thin, my friend.

Eisboch


I think he was apologizing for letting Harry's negative comments get to
him.

From what I've seen, he does some beautiful work.

On Aug 22, 8:41*pm, John H. salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:37:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

wrote in message
....
Why this was rejected, I don't know, the keyword it noted, is not in
the post.... *Anyway, here is my attempt to bring things back into
perspective.. Trolls and posers will be ignored..

SNIP
First off, I need to apologize for not sticking to it in the first
place.. Anyway, one poster suggested I don't know anything because I
question Tolmanns' decision to call his boat a "stitch and tape". I
will note that the whole quote was more "stitch and tape, OR composite
type".. Toleman was doing what a lot of modern plan builders do, using
familiar terms the prospective "non boat builder", builder will
understand. The Toleman for instance calls for one area to be
stitched, but it is certainly not a stitch and tape boat, it is a
composite, skin on frame. IIRC the frame of *chines, stringers, *and
bulkheads. *Many times we use more familiar terms.. I don't call a
Gunnels, a shear strake, I don't call a seat, a thwart, I don't use
terms like "get out the wood"...It would just server to confuse a
newb, and for no productive reason, save ego in this day and age..
Toleman uses terms that folks won't have to go look up, and calling a
s+t boat, a composite, or vice versa, is no big deal, and not really
all that far off. To suggest because someone knows the difference and
though it might be useful in the context of a boating forum...

Stitch and tape boats are typically self jigging, and built with
precut and sized parts. Using tools such as a Spanish Windlass and
pulling the parts together, form the shape. They gain their strength
via a false "frame" which is created at the intersection of curved
laminate, adhered
against each others angles, creating very strong and stable joints. If
engineered properly, they are stable in all directions and are usually
made *with resin and glass. The biggest difference between
stitch and tape, and skin on frame is, on a skin on frame, wood or
another material create a frame, the skins are bent around them. With
S+T the frame itself is created by the strength created at the
intersections of the curved laminate sheets..

I remember when I was a kid, some add that had a Volkswagen sitting on
a simple sheet of curved plywood. A very slight curve in a laminate
created a huge amount of structure, but you all knew that...

UNSNIP

The keyword that was noted was "liar" but I don't see where it got
that... Have fun, trolls will be ignored...

I don't know what you are apologizing for. * The boats you build are well
beyond the capabilities of the majority of us.

Your skin is too thin, my friend.

Eisboch

I think he was apologizing for letting Harry's negative comments get to
him.

From what I've seen, he does some beautiful work.

21

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:37:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I don't know what you are apologizing for. The boats you build are well
beyond the capabilities of the majority of us.

Your skin is too thin, my friend.

Scott does some great work - I've seen some up close and personal -
it's very meticulous, top quality fit and finish. Stitch and glue is
a perfectly valid way to build a wood boat and Scott is a master of
the technique.

However, you are right and I've told him the same thing time and time
again.

He'll get there eventually. :)

On Aug 22, 8:41*pm, John H. salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:37:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

wrote in message
....
Why this was rejected, I don't know, the keyword it noted, is not in
the post.... *Anyway, here is my attempt to bring things back into
perspective.. Trolls and posers will be ignored..

SNIP
First off, I need to apologize for not sticking to it in the first
place.. Anyway, one poster suggested I don't know anything because I
question Tolmanns' decision to call his boat a "stitch and tape". I
will note that the whole quote was more "stitch and tape, OR composite
type".. Toleman was doing what a lot of modern plan builders do, using
familiar terms the prospective "non boat builder", builder will
understand. The Toleman for instance calls for one area to be
stitched, but it is certainly not a stitch and tape boat, it is a
composite, skin on frame. IIRC the frame of *chines, stringers, *and
bulkheads. *Many times we use more familiar terms.. I don't call a
Gunnels, a shear strake, I don't call a seat, a thwart, I don't use
terms like "get out the wood"...It would just server to confuse a
newb, and for no productive reason, save ego in this day and age..
Toleman uses terms that folks won't have to go look up, and calling a
s+t boat, a composite, or vice versa, is no big deal, and not really
all that far off. To suggest because someone knows the difference and
though it might be useful in the context of a boating forum...

Stitch and tape boats are typically self jigging, and built with
precut and sized parts. Using tools such as a Spanish Windlass and
pulling the parts together, form the shape. They gain their strength
via a false "frame" which is created at the intersection of curved
laminate, adhered
against each others angles, creating very strong and stable joints. If
engineered properly, they are stable in all directions and are usually
made *with resin and glass. The biggest difference between
stitch and tape, and skin on frame is, on a skin on frame, wood or
another material create a frame, the skins are bent around them. With
S+T the frame itself is created by the strength created at the
intersections of the curved laminate sheets..

I remember when I was a kid, some add that had a Volkswagen sitting on
a simple sheet of curved plywood. A very slight curve in a laminate
created a huge amount of structure, but you all knew that...

UNSNIP

The keyword that was noted was "liar" but I don't see where it got
that... Have fun, trolls will be ignored...

I don't know what you are apologizing for. * The boats you build are well
beyond the capabilities of the majority of us.

Your skin is too thin, my friend.

Eisboch

I think he was apologizing for letting Harry's negative comments get to
him.

From what I've seen, he does some beautiful work.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks, and thanks.. yep, letting the comments.. etc.. I love the
concept of real stitch and tape. One of the best examples is the
method of construction of my little joe pram. It is designed to mock
the characteristics of a Dow, but weighs in at a mere 55 pounds. The
floor is formed by two preshaped sheets laid on top of each other and
stitched together along the keel then opened like a book. When opened
up to the right angle,it forms the bottom and created a very strong
bow section. With the precut sides, bow and transom stitched in place,
the hull takes perfect shape with no frame at all... I usually use a
chunk of 2x2 across midships to hold it in place while you tape the
seams..

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:00:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Aug 22, 8:41*pm, John H. salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:37:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

wrote in message
...
Why this was rejected, I don't know, the keyword it noted, is not in
the post.... *Anyway, here is my attempt to bring things back into
perspective.. Trolls and posers will be ignored..

SNIP
First off, I need to apologize for not sticking to it in the first
place.. Anyway, one poster suggested I don't know anything because I
question Tolmanns' decision to call his boat a "stitch and tape". I
will note that the whole quote was more "stitch and tape, OR composite
type".. Toleman was doing what a lot of modern plan builders do, using
familiar terms the prospective "non boat builder", builder will
understand. The Toleman for instance calls for one area to be
stitched, but it is certainly not a stitch and tape boat, it is a
composite, skin on frame. IIRC the frame of *chines, stringers, *and
bulkheads. *Many times we use more familiar terms.. I don't call a
Gunnels, a shear strake, I don't call a seat, a thwart, I don't use
terms like "get out the wood"...It would just server to confuse a
newb, and for no productive reason, save ego in this day and age..
Toleman uses terms that folks won't have to go look up, and calling a
s+t boat, a composite, or vice versa, is no big deal, and not really
all that far off. To suggest because someone knows the difference and
though it might be useful in the context of a boating forum...

Stitch and tape boats are typically self jigging, and built with
precut and sized parts. Using tools such as a Spanish Windlass and
pulling the parts together, form the shape. They gain their strength
via a false "frame" which is created at the intersection of curved
laminate, adhered
against each others angles, creating very strong and stable joints. If
engineered properly, they are stable in all directions and are usually
made *with resin and glass. The biggest difference between
stitch and tape, and skin on frame is, on a skin on frame, wood or
another material create a frame, the skins are bent around them. With
S+T the frame itself is created by the strength created at the
intersections of the curved laminate sheets..

I remember when I was a kid, some add that had a Volkswagen sitting on
a simple sheet of curved plywood. A very slight curve in a laminate
created a huge amount of structure, but you all knew that...

UNSNIP

The keyword that was noted was "liar" but I don't see where it got
that... Have fun, trolls will be ignored...

I don't know what you are apologizing for. * The boats you build are well
beyond the capabilities of the majority of us.

Your skin is too thin, my friend.

Eisboch

I think he was apologizing for letting Harry's negative comments get to
him.

From what I've seen, he does some beautiful work.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks, and thanks.. yep, letting the comments.. etc.. I love the
concept of real stitch and tape. One of the best examples is the
method of construction of my little joe pram. It is designed to mock
the characteristics of a Dow, but weighs in at a mere 55 pounds. The
floor is formed by two preshaped sheets laid on top of each other and
stitched together along the keel then opened like a book. When opened
up to the right angle,it forms the bottom and created a very strong
bow section. With the precut sides, bow and transom stitched in place,
the hull takes perfect shape with no frame at all... I usually use a
chunk of 2x2 across midships to hold it in place while you tape the
seams..

You should make your web site part of your signature, if possible. That way
when you mention a boat, one could go look at it. Just an idea.

"JimH" wrote in message
...
On Aug 22, 8:41 pm, John H. salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:37:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

wrote in message
...
Why this was rejected, I don't know, the keyword it noted, is not in
the post.... Anyway, here is my attempt to bring things back into
perspective.. Trolls and posers will be ignored..

SNIP
First off, I need to apologize for not sticking to it in the first
place.. Anyway, one poster suggested I don't know anything because I
question Tolmanns' decision to call his boat a "stitch and tape". I
will note that the whole quote was more "stitch and tape, OR composite
type".. Toleman was doing what a lot of modern plan builders do, using
familiar terms the prospective "non boat builder", builder will
understand. The Toleman for instance calls for one area to be
stitched, but it is certainly not a stitch and tape boat, it is a
composite, skin on frame. IIRC the frame of chines, stringers, and
bulkheads. Many times we use more familiar terms.. I don't call a
Gunnels, a shear strake, I don't call a seat, a thwart, I don't use
terms like "get out the wood"...It would just server to confuse a
newb, and for no productive reason, save ego in this day and age..
Toleman uses terms that folks won't have to go look up, and calling a
s+t boat, a composite, or vice versa, is no big deal, and not really
all that far off. To suggest because someone knows the difference and
though it might be useful in the context of a boating forum...

Stitch and tape boats are typically self jigging, and built with
precut and sized parts. Using tools such as a Spanish Windlass and
pulling the parts together, form the shape. They gain their strength
via a false "frame" which is created at the intersection of curved
laminate, adhered
against each others angles, creating very strong and stable joints. If
engineered properly, they are stable in all directions and are usually
made with resin and glass. The biggest difference between
stitch and tape, and skin on frame is, on a skin on frame, wood or
another material create a frame, the skins are bent around them. With
S+T the frame itself is created by the strength created at the
intersections of the curved laminate sheets..

I remember when I was a kid, some add that had a Volkswagen sitting on
a simple sheet of curved plywood. A very slight curve in a laminate
created a huge amount of structure, but you all knew that...

UNSNIP

The keyword that was noted was "liar" but I don't see where it got
that... Have fun, trolls will be ignored...

I don't know what you are apologizing for. The boats you build are well
beyond the capabilities of the majority of us.

Your skin is too thin, my friend.

Eisboch

I think he was apologizing for letting Harry's negative comments get to
him.

From what I've seen, he does some beautiful work.

21

86!

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:58:46 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"JimH" wrote in message
...
snipped

I think he was apologizing for letting Harry's negative comments get to
him.

From what I've seen, he does some beautiful work.

21

86!

I think Jimh is trying to endear himself to his hero.

On Aug 22, 5:50*pm, wrote:
Why this was rejected, I don't know, the keyword it noted, is not in
the post.... *Anyway, here is my attempt to bring things back into
perspective.. Trolls and posers will be ignored..

SNIP
First off, I need to apologize for not sticking to it in the first
place.. Anyway, one poster suggested I don't know anything because I
question Tolmanns' decision to call his boat a "stitch and tape". I
will note that the whole quote was more "stitch and tape, OR composite
type".. Toleman was doing what a lot of modern plan builders do, using
familiar terms the prospective "non boat builder", builder will
understand. The Toleman for instance calls for one area to be
stitched, but it is certainly not a stitch and tape boat, it is a
composite, skin on frame. IIRC the frame of *chines, stringers, *and
bulkheads. *Many times we use more familiar terms.. I don't call a
Gunnels, a shear strake, I don't call a seat, a thwart, I don't use
terms like "get out the wood"...It would just server to confuse a
newb, and for no productive reason, save ego in this day and age..
Toleman uses terms that folks won't have to go look up, and calling a
s+t boat, a composite, or vice versa, is no big deal, and not really
all that far off. To suggest because someone knows the difference and
though it might be useful in the context of a boating forum...

Stitch and tape boats are typically self jigging, and built with
precut and sized parts. Using tools such as a Spanish Windlass and
pulling the parts together, form the shape. They gain their strength
via a false "frame" which is created at the intersection of curved
laminate, adhered
against each others angles, creating very strong and stable joints. If
engineered properly, they are stable in all directions and are usually
made *with resin and glass. The biggest difference between
stitch and tape, and skin on frame is, on a skin on frame, wood or
another material create a frame, the skins are bent around them. With
S+T the frame itself is created by the strength created at the
intersections of the curved laminate sheets..

I remember when I was a kid, some add that had a Volkswagen sitting on
a simple sheet of curved plywood. A very slight curve in a laminate
created a huge amount of structure, but you all knew that...

UNSNIP

The keyword that was noted was "liar" but I don't see where it got
that... Have fun, trolls will be ignored...

You can not and must not call Harry out on his lies, name calling and
insults. I don't know why, but almost everyone here is afraid of him.