A bit of trivia for the sailors in the group: the skipper of the
defending boat that year was a guy named Ted Turner, and his tactician
was some fellow from the west coast named Dennis Conner. It was 1974
and for the first time the defending boat was NOT built of wood.


Good story, well told.

I hope you guys have stories to get us through the winter.

Yes. It's been quite awhile since I've traveled any East coast waters,
but I remember there POSSIBLY being one or two along the Carolina's,
between Atlantic City and New York, Boston to Cape Ann? You'd have to
look at various charts (any of the above may be wrong or no longer exist
..... as I say, old memories BG check the charts).
As for your second part .... correct, but here you are talking about a
channel which, for the most part, is taking you from the East to a point
inland, to the West (loosely).

otn

Ron Thornton wrote:
Are red and green buoys ever set alone and for anything but a channel?
I've never seen one without the other. Offshore from Va Beach we have
many marking the shipping channel approaches to the Chesapeake bay. As
I recall they are alway RRR approaching from the north or south.

Ron

Richard Malcolm wrote:

This is fine, but I believe the original poster was talking about a
buoy, well offshore, nowhere near any harbor, not related to any harbor,
not near or about any channel, entrance or approach to a harbor .... by
itself, alone ....

YES, EXACTLY MY QUESTION

In this case, traveling in a Southerly direction on

the Atlantic Coastline, you will leave this buoy to stbd. If you see a
buoy like that... there aren't all that many


YOU MAY BE RIGHT, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME, LAST WEEK WHEN I WENT FROM
BOSTON HARBOR TO PORTLAND, ME, I SAW QUITE A FEW

I would be dealing off of old memories, but seem to remember at least
one between Boston and Cape Ann. Overall, taken along the entire
Atlantic coastline, I don't remember all that many, so many boaters will
never encounter the situation.

.... you should immediately check your chart to see where the hazard
is. However, if you don't have

a chart ....

I ALMOST ALWAYS DO HAVE ONE

leave the buoy to stbd and give it plenty of searoom. They

do exist out there, and the recognition of only ONE red buoy, becomes
important as to how you should expect to pass it.


THANKS, I am begining to get it. "Returning" in the RRR not only means
into a harbor, up a river, or small to big numbers, it also means,
when on the East Coast, travelling southerly or westerly.

Can I assume, without making an ass of u or me, that if it is a big
old lonely green one that I would treat it the opposite of the red
one? and if I was heading North I would do the opposite of heading
southerly?

Yes


otn
either way, check the chart!

PS The area most people will associate the "southerly" heading to this
subject, is traveling down the ICW. Here, things can get confusing when
the ICW crosses a main channel and you can see something like a Green
can with a red triangular daymark..

"Paul" wrote in message . rogers.com...

Good story, well told.

I hope you guys have stories to get us through the winter.
==============================

Glad you liked it.

I have a story to get ME through the winter:

Bought a house in Florida and hope to spend some quality time pool side
while I watch the new dock being built. Mrs B wants her new kitchen so we
traded for a dock.

Other channels, such as the ICW or Chesapeake Bay, consider
north bound 'returning.'

The Chesapeake is basically oriented south to north with Baltimore at the top
but the ICW has lots of places where the "port" is south of the point of entry
from the sea. The ICW behind Miami Beach is one.

DSK wrote:

otnmbrd wrote:


OK, let me try this again. You are heading southbound along the Jersey
Shore, and you are offshore between inlets. You run across a great big
old Nun buoy, sitting out there on it's lonesome (no channel
around)....what side do you take it on?
You take it on your stbd side. It is marking a hazard.... check your
chart, but leave it on your stbd hand.


That would be a safe assumption, in the absence of any other info.

What other info are you looking for here?


On the Atlantic seaboard, you are coming from sea, when you are heading
in a southerly and/or westerly direction where buoy recognition is
concerned.


Not true, look in the pilots. If you are going north, it's considered 'returning'
unless it is a sea channel. Trying to follow 'Red Right Returning' when southbound
will put you into trouble except at the outermost sea bouys, whihc is the case you
were discussing above. Other channels, such as the ICW or Chesapeake Bay, consider
north bound 'returning.'

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I had to read this a few times to glean what you were saying.
When proceeding down along the Atlantic coastline, at sea, you will be
heading in a general Southerly and Westerly direction, and any buoy you
cross paths with, will be (such as the one the original poster was
asking about)RRR.
Now, when you come to an entrance to a harbor, the buoy numbering will
commence and you will work on the basis of RRR, whether the actual
channel goes mostly North, West, or Southwest, because you will be
heading from the entrance ("generally" the Easternmost point), i.e. you
need to check your chart for the numbering as well as the overall
direction (we can all see areas such as LIS, Cape Cod, etc. which would
appear to throw the North-South, East- West, criteria off .... and yes,
the Chesapeake included, though, here you start at a point to the East
and then proceed to the Northwest(westerly direction).
For the ICW, mile one is in Norfolk, if memory serves, and proceeding
down the ICW in a Southerly direction from here, is considered returning
from sea. Naturally, those who view the run from Norfolk through Cape
May as still part of the ICW will need check their charts, as I'm not
sure how the buoys for the C&D or Cape May Canal, etc. are numbered.
The overall Southerly direction, is just that ....overall ....
individual harbors can run in all sorts of directions and need to be
viewed individually. The North to South, East to West is a basic
beginning point to start from, WHEN COMING FROM SEA.

otn

Gfretwell wrote:

The Chesapeake is basically oriented south to north with Baltimore at the top
but the ICW has lots of places where the "port" is south of the point of entry
from the sea. The ICW behind Miami Beach is one.

Check the USCG and Corp of Engineers. The ICW is "returning" if traveling south to
north on the East Coast, west to east on the Gulf.

There are lots of other channels which are connected by the ICW, which you transit
if following the ICW, which are marked differently because they are going from the
sea to a specific port. Their markers are not considered to be the same as ICW
markers, in fact in many places there are two sets of markers. It can get
confusing, which is one reason why I would not encourage anybody to try and
navigate without a chart.

DSK

There are lots of other channels which are connected by the ICW, which you
transit
if following the ICW, which are marked differently

That sort of defeats the "south to north" assumption then doesn't it? The
places I have seen only have one set of markers in any specific segment and
they may switch directions/numbering at every pass to the sea. You are right
about having a good chart if you lack the local knowlege because there are
plenty of places where the markers are confusing at best and contradictory at
the worst.
Personally I think they should require different markers for ICW, Local
government and privately maintained but they are all identical.
Here on the west coast of Fla we don't even have a decent standard about how
deep a marked channel has to be. The Estero River channel across Estero Bay
uses ICW style markers and you can see wading birds in the middle on a winter
low tide.

Well, dealing from memory strikes again .... I've found at least one
error in memory.
The designation as an ICW marker was, in my memory, the red triangle or
green square. This should be yellow triangle, yellow square.

Question: Since Charleston has all ready been used .... when coming from
sea into Charleston, you can either head North up the ICW, or South,
down the ICW .... lets go south. What are the markers or buoys you
encounter as you enter and progress southbound..... keep in mind, I'm
asking about ICW markings, which are not necessarily IALA-B.

This may be part of our dissension ..... for instance, the fact that
arriving from sea into Charleston, when you turn right into Isle of
Palms the system starts and heads North RRR, has nothing to do with it's
ICW significance and everything to do with it's "from sea" significance
(and North, is not paramount).

otn

otnmbrd wrote:


DSK wrote:

Gfretwell wrote:


The Chesapeake is basically oriented south to north with Baltimore at
the top
but the ICW has lots of places where the "port" is south of the point
of entry
from the sea. The ICW behind Miami Beach is one.



Check the USCG and Corp of Engineers. The ICW is "returning" if
traveling south to
north on the East Coast, west to east on the Gulf.


Whew!!! totally disagree with this!!! Where do you find this
information? Aside from the fact that the "Corp" and "USCG" are not the
authorities......though they are intimately involved with replacing the
markers. This totally goes against the clockwise rotation around the
continent!!


There are lots of other channels which are connected by the ICW, which
you transit
if following the ICW, which are marked differently because they are
going from the
sea to a specific port. Their markers are not considered to be the
same as ICW
markers, in fact in many places there are two sets of markers. It can get
confusing, which is one reason why I would not encourage anybody to
try and
navigate without a chart.

DSK

Here, I'm digging deep into memory (so it may be totally out of wack)
Didn't the ICW numbers start at Norfolk, mile one, and increased from
there based on "mile numbers"?

otn

otnmbrd wrote:

Well, dealing from memory strikes again .... I've found at least one
error in memory.
The designation as an ICW marker was, in my memory, the red triangle or
green square. This should be yellow triangle, yellow square.

No, the only thing that distinguishes an ICW marker from a sea channel is a
small Corp of Engineers symbol near the top, and some of them say "ICW" along
with the number. They are red & green IAW the IALA-B system.

But speaking of memory failures, since I have been so adamant about North/CCW
being counted as "returning" let me be equally vocal in saying I WAS WRONG!
Major brain fart, don't know how I misremembered this. I looked in Chapman's
this morning and at several charts of areas I am familiar with... apparently not
familiar enough!



Question: Since Charleston has all ready been used .... when coming from
sea into Charleston, you can either head North up the ICW, or South,
down the ICW .... lets go south. What are the markers or buoys you
encounter as you enter and progress southbound..... keep in mind, I'm
asking about ICW markings, which are not necessarily IALA-B.

Going south, you'd follow the Charleston harbor channel marks, then the Ashley
River, then into a creek with a funny name (can't recall) just opposite the
Charleston City marina. IIRC (although why I should trust my memory now) the
system switches from the Ashley River bouyage to ICW bouyage at the mouth of
that creek. And as you said all along, going south it would still be Red Right
Returning.

In the opposite case, as soon you go from Charleston Harbor, heading north, into
the Isle of Palms channel, you are following ICW markers and it switches to
"Returning = clockwise around the continent" so you'd take green to starboard.



This may be part of our dissension .....

No, our dissension was based on a major malfunction on my part. I apologize and
hope that most people who have to do any serious navigating would go to the
books rather stake their safety on internet chatter.

I usually try to be a serious and reliable source of info, but blew it this
time!

However, if you were going south offshore and encountered a green sea channel
marker, it would still be correct to take it on one's right-hand side

Fresh Breezes- Doug King