I find such good info here that before I open up Chapmans, I thought I
would ask if someone wants to explain something to me. To give you a
little background, I have travelled in my boat from Boston, Maine,
cape cod, to NYC, ICW, hudson River, erie canal, many of the canals,
lake chaplian, St Lawence Seaway to Montreal, so I have some basic
understanding of bouys, etc.
My quick question is something like this: if I am crusing about 5-15
miles off shore and see a red bouy, even before I look at the chart,
what should I be thinking? Which side do I want to pass it on? Is
there a slogan like the "right on red when returning" that I should be
thinking? thanks for your time.
just so you know, I would check the chart first, before I proceeded.

Hey, I actually know the answer to this.

Red right returning is the saying (mnemonic?).

The trick then becomes to know which way you're going.

I see a lot of people with little plastic green and red reminders
suction-cupped to the top of their compass. When they come about they simply
give them a spin them the other way. Where we are there's markers everywhere
and this is an easy way to remind you whether you're going up or down.

"Richard Malcolm" wrote in message
om...
I find such good info here that before I open up Chapmans, I thought I
would ask if someone wants to explain something to me. To give you a
little background, I have travelled in my boat from Boston, Maine,
cape cod, to NYC, ICW, hudson River, erie canal, many of the canals,
lake chaplian, St Lawence Seaway to Montreal, so I have some basic
understanding of bouys, etc.
My quick question is something like this: if I am crusing about 5-15
miles off shore and see a red bouy, even before I look at the chart,
what should I be thinking? Which side do I want to pass it on? Is
there a slogan like the "right on red when returning" that I should be
thinking? thanks for your time.
just so you know, I would check the chart first, before I proceeded.

Along the Atlantic Coast, "from sea" follows a North to South, East to
West, direction

Richard Malcolm wrote:

I find such good info here that before I open up Chapmans, I thought I
would ask if someone wants to explain something to me. To give you a
little background, I have travelled in my boat from Boston, Maine,
cape cod, to NYC, ICW, hudson River, erie canal, many of the canals,
lake chaplian, St Lawence Seaway to Montreal, so I have some basic
understanding of bouys, etc.
My quick question is something like this: if I am crusing about 5-15
miles off shore and see a red bouy, even before I look at the chart,
what should I be thinking? Which side do I want to pass it on? Is
there a slogan like the "right on red when returning" that I should be
thinking? thanks for your time.
just so you know, I would check the chart first, before I proceeded.

You really need 2 markers to determine what you are looking at. Just remember
"RRR" applies when the numbers are getting higher. If the numbers are getting
smaller you are "leaving", not "returning".
When you get inshore you really need a chart to figure out what you are looking
at. Even then "privately maintained" markers may not be charted but they will
look exactly like the USCG markers and can be in very close proximity to a
channel with similar numbering. The area around Big Carlos Pass in SW Florida
is notorious for conflicting channel markings. We have 2 channels running next
to each other, winding their way through the mangroves and it is very easy to
jump from one to the other by accident, ending up in the wrong river.

Richard Malcolm wrote:

...My quick question is something like this: if I am crusing about 5-15
miles off shore and see a red bouy, even before I look at the chart,
what should I be thinking?

That there's something wrong with your DR from your last position

A red marker is not going to be 5 miles out unless you're approaching a
really major port.


Which side do I want to pass it on?

Unfortunately, there is no way to tell 'instantly.' Is it a sea channel
bouy? A cardinal mark on a rock or wreck? A weather data bouy?

*If* it is a sea channel marker, at 5 miles out you should be able to pass
it on either side unless your boat draws a LOT or there is some special
circumstance, like the underwater sea wall at Tybee Roads.... the only
thing I can say is, there is no way to tell without reference to your
chart.


Is
there a slogan like the "right on red when returning" that I should be
thinking?

Yes, and as otnmbrd said, "returning" not only means going from sea
towards a harbor, but also counts as going counter-clockwise around the
continent, if you're on the eastern coast of the US.

thanks for your time.
just so you know, I would check the chart first, before I proceeded.

Smart move. Me too!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
Richard Malcolm wrote:


...My quick question is something like this: if I am crusing about 5-15
miles off shore and see a red bouy, even before I look at the chart,
what should I be thinking?


That there's something wrong with your DR from your last position

A red marker is not going to be 5 miles out unless you're approaching a
really major port.



Which side do I want to pass it on?


Unfortunately, there is no way to tell 'instantly.' Is it a sea channel
bouy? A cardinal mark on a rock or wreck? A weather data bouy?

*If* it is a sea channel marker, at 5 miles out you should be able to pass
it on either side unless your boat draws a LOT or there is some special
circumstance, like the underwater sea wall at Tybee Roads.... the only
thing I can say is, there is no way to tell without reference to your
chart.

I may be missing something here, but not sure I agree fully with the above.
Let's say you're running down (north to south) the Jersey shore in
between inlets, and you come across a red buoy (BG there may be one
along here someplace, if memory serves) .... You would keep that to stbd
as you proceeded southbound.
Now, admittedly, the danger it was marking may be close aboard and leave
you room to pass inshore (draft considerations), but that fact would
only come from checking the chart, so again, heading southerly,
offshore, you see a red buoy, keep it to stbd, along the Atlantic coastline.

otn



Is
there a slogan like the "right on red when returning" that I should be
thinking?


Yes, and as otnmbrd said, "returning" not only means going from sea
towards a harbor, but also counts as going counter-clockwise around the
continent, if you're on the eastern coast of the US.


thanks for your time.
just so you know, I would check the chart first, before I proceeded.


Smart move. Me too!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

.. wrote:
On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 21:43:47 GMT, otnmbrd
wrote:



I may be missing something here, but not sure I agree fully with the above.
Let's say you're running down (north to south) the Jersey shore in
between inlets, and you come across a red buoy (BG there may be one
along here someplace, if memory serves) ....


It *is* true that the East Coast shore faces generally "east", but not
all East Coast "shores" face due East. Some face due North or South.

Nothing to do with what I'm saying. I apologize, if not all shorelines
face due East .... you will just have to learn to interpolate the
"southerly and westerly" directions.



You would keep that to stbd
as you proceeded southbound.
Now, admittedly, the danger it was marking may be close aboard and leave
you room to pass inshore (draft considerations), but that fact would
only come from checking the chart, so again, heading southerly,
offshore, you see a red buoy, keep it to stbd, along the Atlantic coastline.


And hope that the next red buoy, which is to your port side, is seen
so that you can alter course to the East and avoid the "wall" running
from Northwest to Southeast.

Look at the chart.

OK, let me try this again. You are heading southbound along the Jersey
Shore, and you are offshore between inlets. You run across a great big
old Nun buoy, sitting out there on it's lonesome (no channel
around)....what side do you take it on?
You take it on your stbd side. It is marking a hazard.... check your
chart, but leave it on your stbd hand.
On the Atlantic seaboard, you are coming from sea, when you are heading
in a southerly and/or westerly direction where buoy recognition is
concerned.
In the Gulf, it's south to north, east to west, and on the Pacific,
south to north, west to east.


otn

.. wrote:

snip

I don't disagree with anything you have said. I merely point out that
there are other considerations. Red buoys don't JUST mark channel
edges. They may also mark hazards to the entrances of major ports for
several miles and funnel the traffic toward the channel. My scenario
was to describe a situation where the recognition of only ONE red buoy
and maintaining a course East of same may not be enough to keep the
captain and vessel from harm.


This is fine, but I believe the original poster was talking about a
buoy, well offshore, nowhere near any harbor, not related to any harbor,
not near or about any channel, entrance or approach to a harbor .... by
itself, alone .... In this case, traveling in a Southerly direction on
the Atlantic Coastline, you will leave this buoy to stbd. If you see a
buoy like that... there aren't all that many .... you should immediately
check your chart to see where the hazard is. However, if you don't have
a chart .... leave the buoy to stbd and give it plenty of searoom. They
do exist out there, and the recognition of only ONE red buoy, becomes
important as to how you should expect to pass it.

otn

On 5 Sep 2003 06:34:13 -0700, (Richard
Malcolm) wrote:
I find such good info here that before I open up Chapmans, I thought I
would ask if someone wants to explain something to me. To give you a
little background, I have travelled in my boat from Boston, Maine,
cape cod, to NYC, ICW, hudson River, erie canal, many of the canals,
lake chaplian, St Lawence Seaway to Montreal, so I have some basic
understanding of bouys, etc.
My quick question is something like this: if I am crusing about 5-15
miles off shore and see a red bouy, even before I look at the chart,
what should I be thinking? Which side do I want to pass it on? Is
there a slogan like the "right on red when returning" that I should be
thinking? thanks for your time.
just so you know, I would check the chart first, before I proceeded.
===============================================
Lots of good answers for the most part, starting with "check your
chart".

This reminds me of an amusing story however from early in my sailing
days back in the 70s. It seems hard to believe now, but we had very
little in the way of electronic nav aids then, and it was common to
sail all day on dead reckoning without knowing precisely where you
were. Therefore, any offshore buoy sighting was a welcome thing and a
chance to reset your DR plot from a precisely known location. So
after sailing west all day without a position fix from Marthas
Vineyard toward Block Island, we suddenly spotted a large red sea buoy
in the distance. Inspection of the DR plot showed no buoys within 5
or 6 miles of our estimated position so this was a cause for some
concern. We shifted course to bring us close enough to see the
markings on the buoy and the only things visible were the letters
"AC". More scrambling around with the chart and DR plot followed, and
no trace of a buoy labeled AC could be found anywhere. We proceeded on
and eventually picked up Block Island more or less where it was
supposed to be and finally had a confirmed position again.

Later that year in the fall we drove out to Newport, RI for the
America's cup elimination trials, chartered a skippered power boat for
the weekend, and headed out to watch the races. The starting mark
turned out to be a large red buoy labeled "AC".

Moral of the story is that you really do need to read the "Notices to
Mariners" once in a while. I don't know too many people who do that
however and I'm as guilty as anyone else.

A bit of trivia for the sailors in the group: the skipper of the
defending boat that year was a guy named Ted Turner, and his tactician
was some fellow from the west coast named Dennis Conner. It was 1974
and for the first time the defending boat was NOT built of wood.

This is fine, but I believe the original poster was talking about a
buoy, well offshore, nowhere near any harbor, not related to any harbor,
not near or about any channel, entrance or approach to a harbor .... by
itself, alone ....
YES, EXACTLY MY QUESTION

In this case, traveling in a Southerly direction on
the Atlantic Coastline, you will leave this buoy to stbd. If you see a
buoy like that... there aren't all that many

YOU MAY BE RIGHT, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME, LAST WEEK WHEN I WENT FROM
BOSTON HARBOR TO PORTLAND, ME, I SAW QUITE A FEW

.... you should immediately check your chart to see where the hazard
is. However, if you don't have
a chart ....
I ALMOST ALWAYS DO HAVE ONE

leave the buoy to stbd and give it plenty of searoom. They
do exist out there, and the recognition of only ONE red buoy, becomes
important as to how you should expect to pass it.

THANKS, I am begining to get it. "Returning" in the RRR not only means
into a harbor, up a river, or small to big numbers, it also means,
when on the East Coast, travelling southerly or westerly.

Can I assume, without making an ass of u or me, that if it is a big
old lonely green one that I would treat it the opposite of the red
one? and if I was heading North I would do the opposite of heading
southerly?

either way, check the chart!