On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:43:04 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

The country's mood and culture has changed. The principles of self
accountability and responsibility have faded, replaced with a "what's in it
for me" attitude. It's hard for me to accept, but it's here

Good points all, but this is the nexis point. People have become very
self-centered and all it's associationed complications.

Personally, I think it's a lack of vision - we've become a society
that looks inward and not outward. We've lost that unique sense of
individualism.

On the other hand, it also proves a point that I've been making for
years - as America goes, so does the world. What affects us, affects
every human being on the face of the planet.

And here's another thought along the same lines - the generation that
is following us has never had a serious economic downturn - they don't
understand the historical imperative that normal economic fluctuations
happen. They've had it too good for too long and now that economic
realities have overrun their expectations, panic rules the day. They
are now realising that not everybody can own a 40 foot boat, a Lexus
and a 10,000 sq. ft house.

Now they are leaning that TANSTAAFL is a very real concept and they
don't like it.

Me? Hey, I'm fine - we will be fine - my kids were taught early to
take responsibility for their own economic futures, they will be fine.
I took responsibility to make it that way and followed through.

Those of us who understand the TANSTAAFL concept will be fine -
everybody else will experience pain and economic dislocation.

It's the way the system works.

And with that, I will now submit to the demands of Percocet and take a
nap. :)

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:43:04 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

The country's mood and culture has changed. The principles of self
accountability and responsibility have faded, replaced with a "what's in
it
for me" attitude. It's hard for me to accept, but it's here

Good points all, but this is the nexis point. People have become very
self-centered and all it's associationed complications.

Personally, I think it's a lack of vision - we've become a society
that looks inward and not outward. We've lost that unique sense of
individualism.

On the other hand, it also proves a point that I've been making for
years - as America goes, so does the world. What affects us, affects
every human being on the face of the planet.

And here's another thought along the same lines - the generation that
is following us has never had a serious economic downturn - they don't
understand the historical imperative that normal economic fluctuations
happen. They've had it too good for too long and now that economic
realities have overrun their expectations, panic rules the day. They
are now realising that not everybody can own a 40 foot boat, a Lexus
and a 10,000 sq. ft house.

Now they are leaning that TANSTAAFL is a very real concept and they
don't like it.

Me? Hey, I'm fine - we will be fine - my kids were taught early to
take responsibility for their own economic futures, they will be fine.
I took responsibility to make it that way and followed through.

Those of us who understand the TANSTAAFL concept will be fine -
everybody else will experience pain and economic dislocation.

It's the way the system works.

And with that, I will now submit to the demands of Percocet and take a
nap. :)



Good point regarding the lack of a significant economic slowdown in the past
30 years or so. We've had a couple of shallow, short lived recessions, but
the last significant one was back in the 70's. There's a whole generation
of young adults who have never experienced the effects of a serious economic
slowdown.

I remember as a youth listening to my dad preaching, "You don't get
something for nothing", a variation of "TANSTAAFL".

Eisboch

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 07:34:40 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I remember as a youth listening to my dad preaching, "You don't get
something for nothing", a variation of "TANSTAAFL".

Exactly. We grew up with parents who survived the Depression remember
- those of us who listened and learned are in good shape.

It's difficult - I know it is, but things aren't as bad as they could
be. People are still working - there is still demand for plumbers,
carpenters, electricians, engineers, technicians, programmers. Those
who have the skills will be fine.

It's the people on the fringe who won't make it. Some feel that's not
fair. I don't. Somebody has to lose in order for somebody else to
win. Redistributing wealth doesn't solve anything because it only
fosters a belief that somebody will solve my problem for me and they
will continue to fail.

Before my latest escapade with the Emergency Room, I finally sold the
last house we had on the market to a fellow from Ecuador. He came to
the US in 1987 legally, brought his family with him and started
working for a lawn care business. He literally had nothing to start
with. His wife worked as a waitress, his daughter worked and went to
school and became a CNA, then a LPN, then an RN and is now working on
her PA credentials. His oldest son worked with him. He now has his
own business with several corporate accounts that includes lawn care
and janitorial services. His wife now owns the resturant she worked
in as a waitress. They saved money, lived frugally and now own a
house which they paid for in cash. They all worked hard, long hours
and are now living the American dream. Took twenty one years - a good
long outlook on life and living - work hard, make your own breaks,
make your own luck and you win.

The difference between them and those on the fringe is the willingness
to work for and towards a goal. Patience was a big part of their
success. They didn't expect a hand out everytime things went south -
they just continued to work hard and "git 'er done". They are winners
- they will survive.

I hate to sound Darwinian, but that's the simple truth - those who are
willing to do, get.

And while I'm still conscious, Iwould like to point out that gas in
Putnam yesterday when I came home was $2.84. This is October.

I called it again. :)

Here's another prediction for you - the Senate will stay as it is, the
House will gain a few Democrat seats and who ever wins the Presidency
will be a one-term holder of that office.

And who will win the Presidency?

McCain - 52/48 over Obama.

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 07:34:40 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I remember as a youth listening to my dad preaching, "You don't get
something for nothing", a variation of "TANSTAAFL".

Exactly. We grew up with parents who survived the Depression remember
- those of us who listened and learned are in good shape.

It's difficult - I know it is, but things aren't as bad as they could
be. People are still working - there is still demand for plumbers,
carpenters, electricians, engineers, technicians, programmers. Those
who have the skills will be fine.

It's the people on the fringe who won't make it. Some feel that's not
fair. I don't. Somebody has to lose in order for somebody else to
win. Redistributing wealth doesn't solve anything because it only
fosters a belief that somebody will solve my problem for me and they
will continue to fail.


Part of the problem, IMO, is an assumption now-a-days that going to school
and getting a degree automatically entitles one for a high paying,
successful career. For some, their sheepskin is their only significant
accomplishment and it should be the key to success.

I certainly believe in getting an education and a degree, but let's be
honest. Except for some disiplines, an undergraduate degree is not
exactly difficult to earn. We've over-emphasized it's value at the expense
of other, basic requirements for success like hard work, patience, loyalty,
dedication, tenacity and a healthy portion of old fashioned common sense.



Here's another prediction for you - the Senate will stay as it is, the
House will gain a few Democrat seats and who ever wins the Presidency
will be a one-term holder of that office.

And who will win the Presidency?

McCain - 52/48 over Obama.


Without the recent Wall Steet Meltdown, I'd agree with you. Right now, I
think people are so disgusted (and scared) that Obama's promise of a chicken
in every pot will usher him into the White House next January. The
reaction by many voters is consistent with the other points you (and I)
have attempted to make in this thread. The reality will be not a whole
chicken, but just a skinny wing or two.

Eisboch

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:44:21 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

Part of the problem, IMO, is an assumption now-a-days that going to school
and getting a degree automatically entitles one for a high paying,
successful career. For some, their sheepskin is their only significant
accomplishment and it should be the key to success.


Two words - grade inflation.

What used to be a C is now an A.

If you saw some of the papers I've seen - college/university honors
level we're talking here - it's crap.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

I certainly believe in getting an education and a degree, but let's be
honest. Except for some disiplines, an undergraduate degree is not
exactly difficult to earn. We've over-emphasized it's value at the expense
of other, basic requirements for success like hard work, patience, loyalty,
dedication, tenacity and a healthy portion of old fashioned common sense.

And the average undergraduate degree is basically equal to what used
to be considered a solid high school background.

When you have check out people with community college undergraduate
degrees at Staples who can't add, that kind of proves the point
doesn't it?

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:25:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:14:29 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:44:21 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

Part of the problem, IMO, is an assumption now-a-days that going to school
and getting a degree automatically entitles one for a high paying,
successful career. For some, their sheepskin is their only significant
accomplishment and it should be the key to success.


Two words - grade inflation.

What used to be a C is now an A.

If you saw some of the papers I've seen - college/university honors
level we're talking here - it's crap.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

I certainly believe in getting an education and a degree, but let's be
honest. Except for some disiplines, an undergraduate degree is not
exactly difficult to earn. We've over-emphasized it's value at the expense
of other, basic requirements for success like hard work, patience, loyalty,
dedication, tenacity and a healthy portion of old fashioned common sense.

And the average undergraduate degree is basically equal to what used
to be considered a solid high school background.

When you have check out people with community college undergraduate
degrees at Staples who can't add, that kind of proves the point
doesn't it?

The only place where degrees guarantee success is in the education
industry and that is the only requirement for success.

True as far as it goes.

I'm speaking of those folks who are failed by the education industry
by giving out acceptable grades for crap.

Our local community college can grant a degree without any type of
mathematics and very basic science (I call it Science for Dumbasses -
they call it Science for Non-Technical Majors). They have a hard time
granting CNA and LPN degrees and certificates because the students
can't handle basic biology and physiology.

The ratio between Associate degrees in social work compared to
technical degrees is something like 3 to 1.

It's freakin' depressing is what it is.

And now that I'm depressed, I'm off to the Torture Chamber for
"rehabilitation".

Physical Therapists my ass - murderers and torturers is more like it.
The CIA wants to get information - give 'em to Physical Therapists -
they'll talk in five minutes or less.

Freakin' happy face smiling sadists. "Oh - good morning Mrs. Francis
- isn't it such a nice day? Please, let's begin with a little
exercise - I'll help you with it - pain is good - just bounce on this
ball for a while - you can do it - come on, a little harder - no pain,
no gain..."

I'll give 'em pain when I can move - I'll show 'em what pain really
is.

Oh I will get my revenge - yes I will.

And it wont' be pretty either.

~~ muttter ~~

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:25:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:14:29 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:44:21 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

Part of the problem, IMO, is an assumption now-a-days that going to
school
and getting a degree automatically entitles one for a high paying,
successful career. For some, their sheepskin is their only significant
accomplishment and it should be the key to success.


Two words - grade inflation.

What used to be a C is now an A.

If you saw some of the papers I've seen - college/university honors
level we're talking here - it's crap.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

I certainly believe in getting an education and a degree, but let's be
honest. Except for some disiplines, an undergraduate degree is not
exactly difficult to earn. We've over-emphasized it's value at the
expense
of other, basic requirements for success like hard work, patience,
loyalty,
dedication, tenacity and a healthy portion of old fashioned common
sense.

And the average undergraduate degree is basically equal to what used
to be considered a solid high school background.

When you have check out people with community college undergraduate
degrees at Staples who can't add, that kind of proves the point
doesn't it?

The only place where degrees guarantee success is in the education
industry and that is the only requirement for success.

True as far as it goes.

I'm speaking of those folks who are failed by the education industry
by giving out acceptable grades for crap.

Our local community college can grant a degree without any type of
mathematics and very basic science (I call it Science for Dumbasses -
they call it Science for Non-Technical Majors). They have a hard time
granting CNA and LPN degrees and certificates because the students
can't handle basic biology and physiology.

The ratio between Associate degrees in social work compared to
technical degrees is something like 3 to 1.

It's freakin' depressing is what it is.

And now that I'm depressed, I'm off to the Torture Chamber for
"rehabilitation".

Physical Therapists my ass - murderers and torturers is more like it.
The CIA wants to get information - give 'em to Physical Therapists -
they'll talk in five minutes or less.

Freakin' happy face smiling sadists. "Oh - good morning Mrs. Francis
- isn't it such a nice day? Please, let's begin with a little
exercise - I'll help you with it - pain is good - just bounce on this
ball for a while - you can do it - come on, a little harder - no pain,
no gain..."

I'll give 'em pain when I can move - I'll show 'em what pain really
is.

Oh I will get my revenge - yes I will.

And it wont' be pretty either.

~~ muttter ~~

A freakin' Marine complaining about a little pain. You're out. 80

Good luck with the rehab. Been there done that, probably on a lesser scale.