i havent bothered looking this up
but if its eic
eic is not -free money-
its a partial return of regressive taxes (fica or set) already
collected

It's a fully refundable credit. Even if you owe no income tax. So while
he calls it an EIC, that's hardly what it is.

fica is a separate tax than income tax
even if you dont pay any income tax
you can still pay thousands in fica

True. But that's a different issue. That could be solved by collecting

its not solved that way
its solved with eic
eic is partial refund of taxes already collected
it is not a give away

saying otherwise is stupidity lying or both

arf meow arf - cats and dogs living together - who ya goin call
its the end of the world as you know it - filler text goes here
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang

In article ,
D Murphy wrote:

Yes they are and here's how. His plan makes the credit fully refundable.
So if you only paid $100.00 and your "credit" is $1,000.00 you would get

and how many thousands of fica were collected?

arf meow arf - cats and dogs living together - who ya goin call
its the end of the world as you know it - filler text goes here
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang

In article ,
D Murphy wrote:

What Obama says is true, that even if you pay no income tax, you still
pay Social Security taxes. But if that is the issue, then cut that tax
out for earners under a certain threshold. Otherwise the EITC becomes an

it isnt adjusted that way
you cant adjust set that way

entitlement that will be forever adjusted and increased during election

as long as eic never exceeds fica or set it is not an entitlement
it is tax refund

arf meow arf - cats and dogs living together - who ya goin call
its the end of the world as you know it - filler text goes here
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang

rand mair fheal wrote in news:mmf-
:

i havent bothered looking this up
but if its eic
eic is not -free money-
its a partial return of regressive taxes (fica or set) already
collected

It's a fully refundable credit. Even if you owe no income tax. So
while
he calls it an EIC, that's hardly what it is.

fica is a separate tax than income tax
even if you dont pay any income tax
you can still pay thousands in fica

Right. Then eliminate the employees portion for low income earners. Also
if you pay in thousands in FICA, then you won't qualify.


True. But that's a different issue. That could be solved by collecting

its not solved that way

Why not? Paying no tax at all every week is more useful to someone with
no money than letting the government hold your money for the whole year.

its solved with eic
eic is partial refund of taxes already collected
it is not a give away

It is when the refund exceeds what you paid in. Which will be the case
for a large nember of people.


saying otherwise is stupidity lying or both


Stupidity is thinking that these people only need the money in a lump sum
once per year. Lying would be saying that getting refunded more than you
paid in is a tax cut.

If people need aid then give it to them. Give them food stamps, give them
a check, give them school vouchers so their kids can break the cycle.
Give them aid every week when they need it instead of as some political
stunt they get once per year. This will no doubt be enacted as a limited
time deal. Up foor renewal just in time for the next election cycle.

So if you you think like I do and vote against playing political games
with peoples lives, they'll run a campaign ad against you saying you hate
poor people.

It's a disgraceful way of playing class warfare for political gain.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

its not solved that way

Why not?

because it aint

It is when the refund exceeds what you paid in. Which will be the case
for a large nember of people.

will it?

arf meow arf - cats and dogs living together - who ya goin call
its the end of the world as you know it - filler text goes here
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang

rand mair fheal wrote in
:

In article ,
D Murphy wrote:

Yes they are and here's how. His plan makes the credit fully
refundable. So if you only paid $100.00 and your "credit" is
$1,000.00 you would get

and how many thousands of fica were collected?


On $8,200.00? Less than 1.

You get the EITC on the first $8,200.00 of income.

It's a bad idea and nothing more than a political trick. Let it go.

There's dozens of better ways to help low income folks if that is really
the intent. Of course that's not the intent here.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

rand mair fheal wrote in
:

In article ,
D Murphy wrote:

What Obama says is true, that even if you pay no income tax, you
still pay Social Security taxes. But if that is the issue, then cut
that tax out for earners under a certain threshold. Otherwise the
EITC becomes an

it isnt adjusted that way
you cant adjust set that way

Sure you can. You can credit their Soc Sec just like they paid into it.
Just don't collect the money. Let them keep it to spend on food, rent,
clothes, etc.

Were you never poor? If you had been you'd know you need the money every
week, not once per year. It doesn't seem like much, but when you are
struggling every penny helps.


entitlement that will be forever adjusted and increased during
election

as long as eic never exceeds fica or set it is not an entitlement
it is tax refund

Ah, but it does exceed it. And I don't even have a huge problem with
that. If people need aid then give it to them. AN EITC is a lousy way,
perhaps the worst way, of doing it.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

On 20 Oct 2008 23:44:35 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
:

On 19 Oct 2008 04:41:49 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
:

On 17 Oct 2008 23:35:25 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
om:

On 17 Oct 2008 21:20:12 GMT, D Murphy
wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:6rlhf4d4t255mkccdrpeb7bag63rlq877j@4ax .com:

On 17 Oct 2008 07:14:57 GMT, D Murphy
wrote:

McCain and Obama's plans are identical in that neither actually
cuts taxes,

It sounds like Obama may try to control spending.
Start there.

You're not familiar with his platform then. He has never claimed
anything of the sort. Just the opposite in fact.

His platform reduces spending compared to McSame's.

Utter nonsense. Neither plan reduces spending at all. They both
increase deficit spending.

Check your facts.

I did.

Nope.

OK then, find one credible economic anylist that says either plan will
eliminate deficit spending.

Reading comprehension problems or just trying to switch
horses mid-stream again?

Obama says he's giving a tax cut to the poorest
Americans. How?

Check your facts.

No need. You can't cut ones taxes if they pay none.

Which is not what is at issue.

Then explain how he is going to cut their taxes.



They don't pay any taxes. What he does is mail them a
check. That's not a tax cut, it's welfare.

Check your facts.

This is right on his web site.

You seem confused.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

[Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama and Biden will restore
fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief
they need. Obama and Biden will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit
of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family.]

So if you are already paying no tax, you will get a check. And it will
add another 10,000,000 people to the roles of those who pay no income
tax.

150 million workers pay no taxes now?
Probably best not to count gummer but ...

If you pay no tax and the government sends you a check, only a liar would
call it a tax cut. A charitable person might call it a subsidy. A realist
would call it welfare. In any case it's another expensive entitlement
that once enacted will be impossible to get rid of.

150 million workers pay no taxes now?

Just not enough yet IMHO.

If you want to spend on wars & lies then raise the taxes
on those that can best afford to pay for the wars & lies
(who seem to support them most anyway).

There's no way of knowing whether that will in fact happen or not.

Reread my point.

Get us out of debt as a first priority!!

Unfortunately that's not one of the two choices.

Clearly it's never been a repub one.
Look at what they do, not what they say.
Wingers lie.

Yeah right.

Check your facts.

Just look at the economic miracle that Illinois Democrats
including Obama brought to their own home state when they took the
majority.

Was this after those repubs went to jail?

It was one. As compared with two democrats per year on average since
1973.

Get them all, if crooked.

I agree.

But how many repubs can we afford to jail?


By the time the "hopeful changer" ran for the US Senate,
Illinois had the highest state budget deficit in the country.

The repubs had cut their taxes & increased spending?
More trickle-down, right?

Uh no. It was Obama's pal Rod "the unreformer" Blagojevich.

Popular guy.. doing what you want done ... free money ..
sort of welfare for the rich ...

He hasn't cut taxes. He did increase spending though.


It has only
gotten worse. Not to mention the record deficits in Cook county and
Chicago. All thanks to Obama's corrupt pals Daley, Stroger, and
Blagojevich.

Offer to pay taxes & hire people at a decent wage.

They just had to pay out millions to people who were wrongfully fired
from their jobs in order to make way for politically connected hires.

Bushco actually paid?

Yeah right. We pay.


He had time to write two memoirs but never wrote any legislation
unless it enriched his friends and supporters. Everything else was
handed to him by Emil Jones for him to put his name on to build his
resume for a run at the US Senate. He's a bag of fluff whose
beholden to the machine. You'll see.

You do love the winger sites.

Meanwhile, I wonder what Rezko is whispering to the feds? Blago is
certainly in deep trouble. I wonder who else?

Probably a pile of repubs.

Doubtful.

Based on history ....

[Earlier this month, the Sun-Times reported about FBI agents
interviewing people who worked on a Blagojevich home rehab project
that was overseen by a Rezko company. Rezko was convicted in June of
wide-ranging fraud involving Blagojevich's administration, and
prosecutors have disclosed they're in talks with Rezko about becoming
a federal witness.

Sources who spoke to the Sun-Times on condition of anonymity said
agents had asked questions about Patti Blagojevich's real estate
dealings with Rezko. The work got under way in July 2003 -- about six
months after the governor began accepting Rezko's recommendations to
place people on state boards and about eight months after Patti
Blagojevich landed a $47,000 commission from a Rezko land deal.

Tiran and companies he's associated with gave $20,525 to the
governor's campaign fund from March 2001 to August 2006.

And bushco got how much from bankers & brokers & defense
contractors & drug firms & insurance firms & etc.?

Rezko gave Bush a pile of money in an effort to get him to fire A.G.
Fitzgerald. Bush didn't take the bait.


A business partner of Tiran's, Beny Garneata, was among 15 people
charged in May in a federal bribery probe of the city's Buildings and
Zoning departments. Garneata is fighting those charges, which aren't
connected to his business relationship with Tiran.

In 2006, Tiran paid $150,000 to settle two civil lawsuits filed by the
city of Chicago that alleged he illegally built condominium units in
the Logan Square neighborhood.]

So no charges or convictions.

Huh? It takes longer than a week. In case you didn't know this the FBI is
a government agency. As such they are in no real hurry. Unlike on TV
where they rush around and tie everything up in a day.

BTW, Who controls the FBI these days?

Robert S. Mueller III

IOW Repubs & bushco & neocons.
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote in
:

On 20 Oct 2008 23:44:35 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
m:

On 19 Oct 2008 04:41:49 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
m:

On 17 Oct 2008 23:35:25 GMT, D Murphy
wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:dn1if4pgo5ke93n5h8t09ck7rkdos6f8ot@4ax. com:

On 17 Oct 2008 21:20:12 GMT, D Murphy
wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:6rlhf4d4t255mkccdrpeb7bag63rlq877j@4a x.com:

On 17 Oct 2008 07:14:57 GMT, D Murphy
wrote:

McCain and Obama's plans are identical in that neither
actually cuts taxes,

It sounds like Obama may try to control spending.
Start there.

You're not familiar with his platform then. He has never claimed
anything of the sort. Just the opposite in fact.

His platform reduces spending compared to McSame's.

Utter nonsense. Neither plan reduces spending at all. They both
increase deficit spending.

Check your facts.

I did.

Nope.

OK then, find one credible economic anylist that says either plan will
eliminate deficit spending.

Reading comprehension problems or just trying to switch
horses mid-stream again?

Classic Cliff comeback, another comprehension lame.

I'll leave you to your dotage, since you have nothing left to say.


Obama says he's giving a tax cut to the poorest
Americans. How?

Check your facts.

No need. You can't cut ones taxes if they pay none.

Which is not what is at issue.

Then explain how he is going to cut their taxes.



They don't pay any taxes. What he does is mail them a
check. That's not a tax cut, it's welfare.

Check your facts.

This is right on his web site.

You seem confused.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

[Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama and Biden will restore
fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax
relief they need. Obama and Biden will create a new "Making Work Pay"
tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family.]

So if you are already paying no tax, you will get a check. And it will
add another 10,000,000 people to the roles of those who pay no income
tax.

150 million workers pay no taxes now?
Probably best not to count gummer but ...

If you pay no tax and the government sends you a check, only a liar
would call it a tax cut. A charitable person might call it a subsidy.
A realist would call it welfare. In any case it's another expensive
entitlement that once enacted will be impossible to get rid of.

150 million workers pay no taxes now?

Just not enough yet IMHO.

If you want to spend on wars & lies then raise the taxes
on those that can best afford to pay for the wars & lies
(who seem to support them most anyway).

There's no way of knowing whether that will in fact happen or
not.

Reread my point.

Get us out of debt as a first priority!!

Unfortunately that's not one of the two choices.

Clearly it's never been a repub one.
Look at what they do, not what they say.
Wingers lie.

Yeah right.

Check your facts.

Just look at the economic miracle that Illinois Democrats
including Obama brought to their own home state when they took the
majority.

Was this after those repubs went to jail?

It was one. As compared with two democrats per year on average since
1973.

Get them all, if crooked.

I agree.

But how many repubs can we afford to jail?


By the time the "hopeful changer" ran for the US Senate,
Illinois had the highest state budget deficit in the country.

The repubs had cut their taxes & increased spending?
More trickle-down, right?

Uh no. It was Obama's pal Rod "the unreformer" Blagojevich.

Popular guy.. doing what you want done ... free money ..
sort of welfare for the rich ...

He hasn't cut taxes. He did increase spending though.


It has only
gotten worse. Not to mention the record deficits in Cook county
and Chicago. All thanks to Obama's corrupt pals Daley, Stroger,
and Blagojevich.

Offer to pay taxes & hire people at a decent wage.

They just had to pay out millions to people who were wrongfully
fired from their jobs in order to make way for politically connected
hires.

Bushco actually paid?

Yeah right. We pay.


He had time to write two memoirs but never wrote any legislation
unless it enriched his friends and supporters. Everything else was
handed to him by Emil Jones for him to put his name on to build
his resume for a run at the US Senate. He's a bag of fluff whose
beholden to the machine. You'll see.

You do love the winger sites.

Meanwhile, I wonder what Rezko is whispering to the feds? Blago is
certainly in deep trouble. I wonder who else?

Probably a pile of repubs.

Doubtful.

Based on history ....

[Earlier this month, the Sun-Times reported about FBI agents
interviewing people who worked on a Blagojevich home rehab project
that was overseen by a Rezko company. Rezko was convicted in June of
wide-ranging fraud involving Blagojevich's administration, and
prosecutors have disclosed they're in talks with Rezko about
becoming a federal witness.

Sources who spoke to the Sun-Times on condition of anonymity said
agents had asked questions about Patti Blagojevich's real estate
dealings with Rezko. The work got under way in July 2003 -- about
six months after the governor began accepting Rezko's
recommendations to place people on state boards and about eight
months after Patti Blagojevich landed a $47,000 commission from a
Rezko land deal.

Tiran and companies he's associated with gave $20,525 to the
governor's campaign fund from March 2001 to August 2006.

And bushco got how much from bankers & brokers & defense
contractors & drug firms & insurance firms & etc.?

Rezko gave Bush a pile of money in an effort to get him to fire A.G.
Fitzgerald. Bush didn't take the bait.


A business partner of Tiran's, Beny Garneata, was among 15 people
charged in May in a federal bribery probe of the city's Buildings
and Zoning departments. Garneata is fighting those charges, which
aren't connected to his business relationship with Tiran.

In 2006, Tiran paid $150,000 to settle two civil lawsuits filed by
the city of Chicago that alleged he illegally built condominium
units in the Logan Square neighborhood.]

So no charges or convictions.

Huh? It takes longer than a week. In case you didn't know this the FBI
is a government agency. As such they are in no real hurry. Unlike on
TV where they rush around and tie everything up in a day.

BTW, Who controls the FBI these days?

Robert S. Mueller III

IOW Repubs & bushco & neocons.



--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d