On Oct 22, 8:34*am, Boater wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...

BTW, that donation you made to the GOP...how do you think it looks on
Sarah's back as part of $150,000 wardrobe you helped pay for...I guess it
does mean you *can* put lipstick on a pig, eh?

Right. *It's just not fair. * Obama has to pay for his own *$1,400 suits.
Helps to connect to the middle class, you know.
Of course, his income from two "memoirs" *pay for them. *Or do they?

BTW .... how do you write two memoirs as a young man who really hasn't done
anything of importance yet?

Eisboch

In your mind, perhaps, he's not done anything of importance. He's had a
remarkable life so far.

I don't know what Obama pays for his suits, but they're nothing special.
* He might be a bit hard to fit because of his height and lack of
avoirdupois, though.

A $1000 is about average for a decent made to order man's business suit
these days, by the way. I wore one yesterday for a meeting downtown.
Boy, was I surprised...right after Labor Day, the client changed its
dress code to "business casual" except for board meetings and meetings
with "new investors." I was the only one there wearing a tie...but not
for long.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, sure, we believe you.

Don White wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:38:45 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:27:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

With all due respect, what you are missing is a vehicle designed to
tow
something.

You don't want to be in overdrive while towing. An automatic,
designed
for towing applications, will figure it out for you.


Anyway, the 4Runner may be fine for short distance and light load
occasional towing, but not for a travel trailer camper.
JohnH just bought a camper. Even though his camper/trailer is
light-weight, the 4Runner isn't an ideal tow vehicle for it.
The problem is the wind resistance, not the weight, and I guarantee that
is
what he is complaining about.

The 4Runner is a very nice, very light duty vehicle. It's not designed
to
pull high area resistance trailers down the interstate.

Tried to tell him, but he won't listen, so he has to learn for himself.
A
manual transmission will do zip for him.

Eisboch



Oh horse puckey. The 4Runner does a great job of towing a trailer which
is
about half its towing capacity. It wants to downshift going uphill if
I'm
in overdrive. That may be due to wind resistance.

But isn't that what you are complaining about? It should shift out of
overdrive. You shouldn't be in overdrive climbing a hill and pulling the
trailer anyway. The overdrive gear is wimpy to begin with, plus you are
lugging the engine. That's what tow/haul is all about in a tow vehicle
automatic. Ideally, you should be able to lock overdrive out or, use
tow/haul, if equipped.

Yes! I know what I *should* do, but that isn't what I *want* to do. Like I
say, if I leave it in 4th, not overdrive, it does fine. That's what the
book says to do.

If it makes you feel better, my F-250 Superduty, rated to tow twice or
more
the weight of your 4runner automatically shifts out of overdrive and
sometimes unlocks the converter pulling an empty, 3000 lb GVW Haulmark
trailer that probably weighs less than 1000 lbs empty. It's the frontal
area wind resistance that causes the downshifts. Tow/Haul mode prevents
the
transmission from "hunting".
4th gear and staying out of cruise control does that for me. I should have
held out for your van. No, no, I'm happy with what I've got.

We're taking our friends from Holland over to West Virginia for some
camping next week. We'll be staying at the north end of the Monongahela
National Forest. Absolutely beautiful country.
Eisboch


Need someone to show you how to drive that 4Runner?
Even my little Ranger 4x2 had a tow mode button in the auto transmission
lever.
I used it all the way on my 5000 kilometer round trip towing a 2330 lb load
last year.


Even my car can and has towed 2300 lbs. It's not a big deal.

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 02:27:52 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
. ..



Even my little Ranger 4x2 had a tow mode button in the auto transmission
lever.
I used it all the way on my 5000 kilometer round trip towing a 2330 lb
load last year.


Ford, GM and Chrysler used to have auto transmissions in their full sized,
heavy duty trucks (250 and 2500 series and up) that had a button to simply
disengage overdrive for towing purposes. That wasn't ideal, but it
helped.

Now-a-days GM uses the Allison transmission in their 2500 series.
Beautiful
transmission for towing or hauling a heavy rig.
Ford came out with it's "Torqueshift" transmission that acts very
similarly
to the Allison. Both do more than simply disengaging overdrive. They
both
change the shiftpoints, holding the vehicle in gears longer under heavy
load
and provide significant engine braking when slowing down. Ford's
transmission uses a different gear set on downshifts than it does on
upshifts.

When towing, these transmissions make the vehicles much more safe and
controllable and also reduce strain on the engines.

Let me tell you - that is a BIG difference between the heavier duty
pickups and the POS F-150 that I bought.

BIG difference.

My truck is a nice truck - all leather, options up the wazoo but it
just doesn't tow for crap. Even with the 5.4.

I've revised my opinion - if your going to tow anything over 2,500
lbs, step up to the 3/4 or 1 ton class pickup.

Once I get back in decent shape, I'm looking for a good used F-250
diesel to tow my boats with.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)


I am finding that the F-250 Superduty with the same engine you have (the
5.4L) is more than adequate for towing, but I think it is more due to the
TorqueShift transmission. The 5.4L is not a powerhouse like the diesel I
had, but you don't need it. The transmission in tow/haul mode picks the
correct gear, holds it as required under load, and makes towing a breeze.
In other words, it acts like a truck. It does not prevent going into
overdrive, although it rarely shifts into OD when towing, unless on the
straight and level and above about 65 mph. I love how it downshifts
through the gears when slowing down, very much like the Allison
transmission.

If you like Fords (as I do), you might want to try out a gasser F-250
before spending the extra bucks for the diesel.
The F-150's, last I knew, do not come with the TorqueShift transmission.
They have a "tow/haul/ mode, but it's not the same. I believe the light
duty F-150 trucks use the standard, 5 speed electronically controlled
transmission, the same one used in Mrs. E's Navigator. My son has an '08
F-150. Both his truck and Mrs. E's '08 Navigator drive and shift the same
way .... more like a car. Works fine, but for towing the TS is better.

Another benefit is this: Ford originally designed the TorqueShift
transmission for use in their diesel powered pickups in order to handle the
additional low end torque. They worked so well, Ford decided to also use
them in the rest of the SuperDuty series, including the gas engines. It
means you have a very durable and heavy duty transmission .... an important
consideration if you intend to tow much.

Eisboch

Boater wrote:

I'm enjoying Herring's little chuckie dots...I know he's just this side
of a stroke, what with just about everything in his political world
going the way opposite of what he wants.

What could be sweeter than Herring choking on a box of chuckie dots.


What ever happened to Harry Krause. You know. The guy who thinks anyone
using an alias is gutless.

"JohnH" wrote in message
news

I'm getting pretty good at picking up speed on the downgrade and letting
it
bleed off on the upgrade. Works pretty well, lets me stay in overdrive,
and
saves gas.

I just miss the manual tranny.


Hey, John ....

I am not trying to nit-pic this subject to death, but realizing you are
fairly new to the TT crowd and towing, there's one thing I forgot to mention
about towing with manual transmissions ... something I learned from
experience a while back.

The issue is not the ability to downshift and select a proper gear while
climbing hills. You can do that with both an automatic or a manual.

The primary negative of a manual transmission for towing is the clutch wear
getting everything moving from a stop. In your average pickup, SUV or car
that is equipped with a manual transmission, the clutch is sized to get the
weight of the vehicle moving, not it plus the weight of the towed item.

When you add the weight of the towed item .... in your case a travel trailer
or even your boat, the clutch has to transfer the engine torque required to
get the added weight going, requiring more slippage and causing premature
wear. Picture yourself at a stoplight on a steep upward incline and trying
to get things in motion. I burned out the clutch in a Ford F-150 while
backing a 23' Travel Trailer uphill into a campsite many years ago. You
could smell it and later, on the way home, it slipped so badly I could
hardly get things moving.

The automatic utilizes a torque converter that multiplies available
"starting out" torque tremendously. Unless you are in the habit of flooring
it every time you start out, there's no adverse affect on the transmission.

That's why automatics are better for towing than manuals and why the
manufacturers recommend automatics for towing. Even the big, tractor
trailers hauling really heavy loads are now often equipped with Allison
automatic truck transmissions.

As they say, "that's my story and I am sticking to it."

Eisboch

jim wrote:
Don White wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:38:45 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:27:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

With all due respect, what you are missing is a vehicle designed
to tow
something.

You don't want to be in overdrive while towing. An automatic,
designed
for towing applications, will figure it out for you.


Anyway, the 4Runner may be fine for short distance and light load
occasional towing, but not for a travel trailer camper.
JohnH just bought a camper. Even though his camper/trailer is
light-weight, the 4Runner isn't an ideal tow vehicle for it.
The problem is the wind resistance, not the weight, and I
guarantee that
is
what he is complaining about.

The 4Runner is a very nice, very light duty vehicle. It's not
designed to
pull high area resistance trailers down the interstate.

Tried to tell him, but he won't listen, so he has to learn for
himself. A
manual transmission will do zip for him.

Eisboch



Oh horse puckey. The 4Runner does a great job of towing a trailer
which is
about half its towing capacity. It wants to downshift going uphill
if I'm
in overdrive. That may be due to wind resistance.

But isn't that what you are complaining about? It should shift out of
overdrive. You shouldn't be in overdrive climbing a hill and
pulling the
trailer anyway. The overdrive gear is wimpy to begin with, plus you
are
lugging the engine. That's what tow/haul is all about in a tow
vehicle
automatic. Ideally, you should be able to lock overdrive out or, use
tow/haul, if equipped.

Yes! I know what I *should* do, but that isn't what I *want* to do.
Like I
say, if I leave it in 4th, not overdrive, it does fine. That's what the
book says to do.

If it makes you feel better, my F-250 Superduty, rated to tow twice
or more
the weight of your 4runner automatically shifts out of overdrive and
sometimes unlocks the converter pulling an empty, 3000 lb GVW Haulmark
trailer that probably weighs less than 1000 lbs empty. It's the
frontal
area wind resistance that causes the downshifts. Tow/Haul mode
prevents the
transmission from "hunting".
4th gear and staying out of cruise control does that for me. I should
have
held out for your van. No, no, I'm happy with what I've got.

We're taking our friends from Holland over to West Virginia for some
camping next week. We'll be staying at the north end of the Monongahela
National Forest. Absolutely beautiful country.
Eisboch


Need someone to show you how to drive that 4Runner?
Even my little Ranger 4x2 had a tow mode button in the auto
transmission lever.
I used it all the way on my 5000 kilometer round trip towing a 2330 lb
load last year.

Even my car can and has towed 2300 lbs. It's not a big deal.

Ask Don how he stops the little Ranger 4x2 and the 2300 lb load. I would
bet that the little itty bitty transmission in that little Ranger 4x2 is
about at it's end of life.

Eisboch wrote:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 02:27:52 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

Even my little Ranger 4x2 had a tow mode button in the auto transmission
lever.
I used it all the way on my 5000 kilometer round trip towing a 2330 lb
load last year.

Ford, GM and Chrysler used to have auto transmissions in their full sized,
heavy duty trucks (250 and 2500 series and up) that had a button to simply
disengage overdrive for towing purposes. That wasn't ideal, but it
helped.

Now-a-days GM uses the Allison transmission in their 2500 series.
Beautiful
transmission for towing or hauling a heavy rig.
Ford came out with it's "Torqueshift" transmission that acts very
similarly
to the Allison. Both do more than simply disengaging overdrive. They
both
change the shiftpoints, holding the vehicle in gears longer under heavy
load
and provide significant engine braking when slowing down. Ford's
transmission uses a different gear set on downshifts than it does on
upshifts.

When towing, these transmissions make the vehicles much more safe and
controllable and also reduce strain on the engines.
Let me tell you - that is a BIG difference between the heavier duty
pickups and the POS F-150 that I bought.

BIG difference.

My truck is a nice truck - all leather, options up the wazoo but it
just doesn't tow for crap. Even with the 5.4.

I've revised my opinion - if your going to tow anything over 2,500
lbs, step up to the 3/4 or 1 ton class pickup.

Once I get back in decent shape, I'm looking for a good used F-250
diesel to tow my boats with.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)


I am finding that the F-250 Superduty with the same engine you have (the
5.4L) is more than adequate for towing, but I think it is more due to the
TorqueShift transmission. The 5.4L is not a powerhouse like the diesel I
had, but you don't need it. The transmission in tow/haul mode picks the
correct gear, holds it as required under load, and makes towing a breeze.
In other words, it acts like a truck. It does not prevent going into
overdrive, although it rarely shifts into OD when towing, unless on the
straight and level and above about 65 mph. I love how it downshifts
through the gears when slowing down, very much like the Allison
transmission.

If you like Fords (as I do), you might want to try out a gasser F-250
before spending the extra bucks for the diesel.
The F-150's, last I knew, do not come with the TorqueShift transmission.
They have a "tow/haul/ mode, but it's not the same. I believe the light
duty F-150 trucks use the standard, 5 speed electronically controlled
transmission, the same one used in Mrs. E's Navigator. My son has an '08
F-150. Both his truck and Mrs. E's '08 Navigator drive and shift the same
way .... more like a car. Works fine, but for towing the TS is better.

Another benefit is this: Ford originally designed the TorqueShift
transmission for use in their diesel powered pickups in order to handle the
additional low end torque. They worked so well, Ford decided to also use
them in the rest of the SuperDuty series, including the gas engines. It
means you have a very durable and heavy duty transmission .... an important
consideration if you intend to tow much.

If I remember correctly the F-150's have a 4R75 mated with the 5.4L V8
and the F-250's have a 4R100 mated with the 5.4L V8. 4R100 is a much
better tranny.

"BAR" wrote in message
...

jim wrote:

Even my car can and has towed 2300 lbs. It's not a big deal.


Ask Don how he stops the little Ranger 4x2 and the 2300 lb load. I would
bet that the little itty bitty transmission in that little Ranger 4x2 is
about at it's end of life.



I don't know about that. The Ranger is a tough little truck for it's size
and should handle that weight without any problems.
It uses a Mazda transmission that has been well proven.

I towed a car trailer with my John Deere tractor and backhoe attachment on
it a few miles to my daughter's house with the Ranger I had. The tractor
probably weighs close to 4000 lbs ... maybe more and the trailer was about
1400 lbs. I wouldn't recommend this, nor would I do it again (one of the
reasons I got the F-250 SuperDuty), but I was amazed at how well the little
truck handled it.

I was also amazed that the town cop that watched by pass by him didn't stop
me. The whole setup looks ridiculous with the trailer and tractor about
twice the size of the little truck. But ... he just stared and let me go
by.

Eisboch

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:01:34 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

If you like Fords (as I do), you might want to try out a gasser F-250
before spending the extra bucks for the diesel.

Yeah - I'm pretty much a Ford guy.

Well, I can't do anything about it now - another couple of weeks
maybe.

I do know they are getting desperate - maybe it's time to go looking
at a new truck.

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:01:34 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

If you like Fords (as I do), you might want to try out a gasser F-250
before spending the extra bucks for the diesel.

Yeah - I'm pretty much a Ford guy.

Well, I can't do anything about it now - another couple of weeks
maybe.

I do know they are getting desperate - maybe it's time to go looking
at a new truck.


You can try mine out if you want. Bring your boat and you can compare.

Eisboch