Jim wrote:
HK wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:53:39 -0500, Keith nuttle
wrote:

What is sad that the first black president is going to be remember
in history as the president who created the depression of 2008.

You are quite the moron, and this post from you proves it
conclusively. Obama will not even take office until 2009.


Keith probably showed up to vote on Wednesday so he could avoid the
crowds.

I am taking special delight in the angst of the "conservative"
Republicans. CNN had a bit on Rush Limbaugh yesterday, and the video
being shown made it look as if Rush was abou five blood pressure points
away from a stroke.

Now *that* would be a small step for mankind.

The Republicans who are engaging in "PalinBashing" now are making
revelations that are pretty frightening if true...that she didn't know
"Africa" was a continent, that she refused to be briefed before her
Couric interview, that she spent a lot more than $150,000...they're
frightening because they reveal an amazing amount of shallowness on
the part of the guy who picked her.

What fun Tueday night was...an almost complete repudiation of
"conservative" Republicanism.

Quit dwelling in the past. Start thinking about how the armchair
quarterback is going to perform once he gets in the game and goes to the
line of scrimmage.


Oh, I have no doubts about Obama's ability to lead this country. He's
smart, he's knowledgeable, he ran a brilliant campaign, beating the
Clintons and the Republicans, and he is politically sophisticated.

He's certainly going to have to work hard to try to reverse all the
horrors perpetrated on us by Bush and the Republicans, but he is up to
the task. I *love* the choice of Rahm as chief of staff.


I understand the neocon Repubs and conservatives are meeting in Virginia
to decide what to do next. Mass suicide seems appropriate.

On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:57:00 -0500, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:53:39 -0500, Keith nuttle
wrote:

What is sad that the first black president is going to be remember in
history as the president who created the depression of 2008.

You are quite the moron, and this post from you proves it
conclusively. Obama will not even take office until 2009.


Keith probably showed up to vote on Wednesday so he could avoid the crowds.

I am taking special delight in the angst of the "conservative"
Republicans. CNN had a bit on Rush Limbaugh yesterday, and the video
being shown made it look as if Rush was abou five blood pressure points
away from a stroke.

Now *that* would be a small step for mankind.

The Republicans who are engaging in "PalinBashing" now are making
revelations that are pretty frightening if true...that she didn't know
"Africa" was a continent, that she refused to be briefed before her
Couric interview, that she spent a lot more than $150,000...they're
frightening because they reveal an amazing amount of shallowness on the
part of the guy who picked her.


I seriously doubt McCain picked her. I don't think that is even a
remote possibility. The Republican party was none too thrilled that
McCain was their candidate. That was not exactly the game plan. McCain
was forced to take Palin. Who was at his side more than anybody during
the campaign? Joe Lieberman. Figure it out.

I have another bit of business for your to digest. Joe Lieberman
abandoned his "Lieberman for Connecticut" party right after he was
re-elected, and now it has been taken over by some aspiring candidates
that are opposed to Joe Lieberman. He can't get on the ballot in CT
again unless he either forms a new party to run against the "Lieberman
for CT" party, or else... drumroll... His plan all along was to become
the Republican candidate in the next election cycle. He has remained
in the Democratic party only to do as much sabotage as possible. His
end game is to force the Democrats to force him out, so he can attempt
to use THAT as fodder when he runs as a Repulican.

There may be a few kinks in his plan, however. Not the least of which
is that the Republican party is in complete disarray for the time
being, and running as a Republican may not be a particularly strong
position in onty 2 years from now.

He pretty much has jumped the shark.

Wait until he starts betraying the Republican party to gain something
personally. That's coming, too. They are foolish enough not to realize
that if he cheated on the Dems, he'll eventually cheat on them.

HK wrote:
Jim wrote:
HK wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:53:39 -0500, Keith nuttle
wrote:

What is sad that the first black president is going to be remember
in history as the president who created the depression of 2008.

You are quite the moron, and this post from you proves it
conclusively. Obama will not even take office until 2009.


Keith probably showed up to vote on Wednesday so he could avoid the
crowds.

I am taking special delight in the angst of the "conservative"
Republicans. CNN had a bit on Rush Limbaugh yesterday, and the video
being shown made it look as if Rush was abou five blood pressure points
away from a stroke.

Now *that* would be a small step for mankind.

The Republicans who are engaging in "PalinBashing" now are making
revelations that are pretty frightening if true...that she didn't
know "Africa" was a continent, that she refused to be briefed before
her Couric interview, that she spent a lot more than
$150,000...they're frightening because they reveal an amazing amount
of shallowness on the part of the guy who picked her.

What fun Tueday night was...an almost complete repudiation of
"conservative" Republicanism.

Quit dwelling in the past. Start thinking about how the armchair
quarterback is going to perform once he gets in the game and goes to
the line of scrimmage.


Oh, I have no doubts about Obama's ability to lead this country. He's
smart, he's knowledgeable, he ran a brilliant campaign, beating the
Clintons and the Republicans, and he is politically sophisticated.

He's certainly going to have to work hard to try to reverse all the
horrors perpetrated on us by Bush and the Republicans, but he is up to
the task. I *love* the choice of Rahm as chief of staff.


I understand the neocon Repubs and conservatives are meeting in Virginia
to decide what to do next. Mass suicide seems appropriate.




That is an option worth considering.

Calif Bill wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
...
snip...
Unions, regulation, taxes, un-motivated, expensive, work forces, greed
and corruption. Killed our industrial complex. Granted, there were
republicans and democrats who were involved.

Unions?? Only a small fraction of the US workforce is unionized, yet
clowns like you still blame them for your situation.
Wake up & blame the greedy *******s who run the companies.
The greedy *******s who run the companies write me a check every two
weeks. And, tomorrow is Q3 bonus payouts!

And some of the worst performing industries are unionized. Including
government employees. But it is not all the unions fault in the auto
industry. The management caved all the time, when the US controlled 80% of
the market. One of the reason that GM had thousands getting a salary, but
did not have to come to work. One of the reason Toyota, etc can make a
profit, is they have not been here long enough to build up a huge retirees
retirement pay and medical. Plus they negotiated better contracts. The
Toyota contract does not specify all the job classifications. They can send
the lugnut installer to clean floors tomorrow.

My first real job was working at USDA part while I was still in high
school. I was a GS-1 Computer Assistant and my boss was a GS-13, retired
Army Major, He introduced me to paragraph "E" on the job descriptions.
"E. All other duties as assigned." One of the two best bosses I ever
worked for. He gave me opportunities I never would have had working
anywhere else I just had to remember to put the trash cans out side of
the office area each night before I left.

wrote:
On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:53:39 -0500, Keith nuttle
wrote:

What is sad that the first black president is going to be remember in
history as the president who created the depression of 2008.

You are quite the moron, and this post from you proves it
conclusively. Obama will not even take office until 2009.


The stock market doesn't have much faith in Obama, -12% in the first two
days after he wins the election. Let's see what happens today after he
has his first press conference.

"BAR" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
...
snip...
Unions, regulation, taxes, un-motivated, expensive, work forces, greed
and corruption. Killed our industrial complex. Granted, there were
republicans and democrats who were involved.


Unions?? Only a small fraction of the US workforce is unionized, yet
clowns like you still blame them for your situation.
Wake up & blame the greedy *******s who run the companies.

The greedy *******s who run the companies write me a check every two
weeks. And, tomorrow is Q3 bonus payouts!

Thank you...you prove my point!

"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:53:39 -0500, Keith nuttle
wrote:

What is sad that the first black president is going to be remember in
history as the president who created the depression of 2008.

You are quite the moron, and this post from you proves it
conclusively. Obama will not even take office until 2009.


Keith probably showed up to vote on Wednesday so he could avoid the
crowds.

I am taking special delight in the angst of the "conservative"
Republicans. CNN had a bit on Rush Limbaugh yesterday, and the video being
shown made it look as if Rush was abou five blood pressure points
away from a stroke.

Now *that* would be a small step for mankind.

The Republicans who are engaging in "PalinBashing" now are making
revelations that are pretty frightening if true...that she didn't know
"Africa" was a continent, that she refused to be briefed before her Couric
interview, that she spent a lot more than $150,000...they're frightening
because they reveal an amazing amount of shallowness on the part of the
guy who picked her.

What fun Tueday night was...an almost complete repudiation of
"conservative" Republicanism.


When you think about it...it's damn scary.
That woman could have been a weak heartbeat away from controlling all our
futures.
I can't believe a country like the US can't come up with better people to
run.

Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
...
snip...
Unions, regulation, taxes, un-motivated, expensive, work forces, greed
and corruption. Killed our industrial complex. Granted, there were
republicans and democrats who were involved.

Unions?? Only a small fraction of the US workforce is unionized, yet
clowns like you still blame them for your situation.
Wake up & blame the greedy *******s who run the companies.
The greedy *******s who run the companies write me a check every two
weeks. And, tomorrow is Q3 bonus payouts!

Thank you...you prove my point!


I think it was a wee bit too subtle for you, Donnie. Read it again. This
time with a little sarcasm.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
news

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message news
On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:34:01 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

So, my retirement fund loses $80,000 due to Dem Chris Dodd of the
banking comitttee and Barney Frank and the other dems who refused to
take action in 2005 when they were warned their actions were
endangering the economy

No - you lost $85,000 because you were stupid enough to keep your
funds in whatever type of account you had it in.


He hasn't "lost" anything unless he bailed.
Better to sit it out.

Eisboch

Only to a point. Last April I bailed off the US markets but keep to much
in the foreign markets. I had the right idea, but underestimated the
depth of this one. Still, not hurting as bad as many.

I don't see a domestic buying opportunity, I suspect this depression of
stocks is going to be with us for some time to come.


You might want to read this:

http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/arti...einvest/118916

Eisboch

I more or less hold the same view but think for 20% it would be closer to 5
or more years. Not to say you wouldn't buy now for the juicy dividend but I
am second guessing and holding of on more stock purchases at this time.

But the counterpoint, and probably why the markets are getting hammered are
as follows.

Obama's promises are going to cost lots of money. More than the banks!!
The money has to come from somewhere and more printing and debt is still
debt and it means inflation at some point down the road. So why invest in a
stock paying 3% dividend? (Yes, some pay more but hardly would be
diversified). So to anticipate inflation I need a 6-9% yield, a much lower
P/E which means lower stock prices.

Next issue, this isn't over not by a long shot. So far only the symptoms of
debt default are being addressed and debtors are getting away with murder.
This lowers the faith in the currency and it's value.

Next issue is there are more problems coming. GM and Chrysler for example.
They are bankrupt and few buying their products. If they do, it is because
they get it for 1/2 price. Seriously, there are serious signs of prices a
falling like a rock. This is a depression curve, in which case stocks will
depreciate with the costs. This might reverse if the government gets it's
act together. But it could also turn around quick to the next phase below.

Finally, at the tail end of the 70's interest rates went right nuts. His
analysis ignores what happens to a 3% dividend stock in 18% interest rates.
Yes, I said 18%. Real market rates for money need to yield depositors the
follow this equation:

savings interest rates must be greater than inflation + costs + taxes +
risk + profit

The above equation is severely broken in today's economics. While a stock
doesn't have to pay interest rates, it has to be close.

Interest rates and/or inflation will go nuts. You can't print trillions of
dollars and expect these two economic components not to notice.

There is also the fact that over 64 trillion dollars out there no longer
exists in this world. Between property devaluations, 401ks, stock accounts,
failed debt, there is going to be a spending whiplash potentially for
decades. You can't make that kind of debt to keep spending. Even the
government is going to get less taxes as a result.

And 800 billion, just addressed the symptoms, the cause is still out there.
Debts must be honoured or the currency/bank isn't worth crap.

Unlike the '70's though, I think this time the government is trying to cause
inflation as it would numerically increase the homes dollar value, even
though it was less in NPV value. For example, say I have a $300K home, and
inflation hits 50%. But because of the slow down, the house goes to $325K,
lower in NPV but higher in dollar so people don't walk away.

The difference from the 70's though is the government is pulling the
interest leaver so hard down towards 0 it is in fact causing a depression.

There is no liquidity crisis, there is a shortage of people willing to pay
market rates with good credit.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 6, 9:30 am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Canuck57" wrote in message

news




"Eisboch" wrote in message
m...

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
messagenewsfj5h41uc5ji8khccpgaa15ti22hkli31t@4ax .com...

On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:34:01 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

So, my retirement fund loses $80,000 due to Dem Chris Dodd of the
banking comitttee and Barney Frank and the other dems who refused to
take action in 2005 when they were warned their actions were
endangering the economy

No - you lost $85,000 because you were stupid enough to keep your
funds in whatever type of account you had it in.

He hasn't "lost" anything unless he bailed.
Better to sit it out.

Eisboch

Only to a point. Last April I bailed off the US markets but keep to
much
in the foreign markets. I had the right idea, but underestimated the
depth of this one. Still, not hurting as bad as many.

I don't see a domestic buying opportunity, I suspect this depression of
stocks is going to be with us for some time to come.

You might want to read this:

http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/arti...einvest/118916

Eisboch

I do not expect the real value of the market to significantly increase
in the next 4 years because the crooks who caused the problem are now
firmly entrenched in congress and nobody in their right mind would
invest in mutual funds, etc under that condition. Specific stocks may
go up but funds that are arranged to minimize risk will not.
Furthermore, I have realized that a traditional IRA is not a good deal
for me because I expect to still be working at age 70 and to still be
in a high tax bracket so there is no tax savings at all.

That is unfortunately more realistic than most. One difference. With 64
trillion less dollars out there today, people are going to be more price
sensitive than ever for a long time. While the government might try to
change this, until more people have more money and less debt the economy is
shot.