Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...

I was on a condo construction site last week where a union crew turned
out an incredible three story winding stainless steel and glass
staircase. The tube bending and welds and panels of curved glass were as
close to perfect as any I've seen in my working life. Obviously, what
the job needed was someone with Justwait's skill to tack on some
footpegs and someone with FloridaJim's skill to sweep the floor.


Wait a hold-it Harry,

Are you trying to convince us that your union construction crew bent and
fabricated the SS tubes, and formed the "perfect" panels of curved glass
on site? I don't believe it.

Or did they simply install them, supplied by a manufacturer?

Eisboch


The staircase was built on site in a closed off area of the parking garage
with special equipment typically used at facilities that fabricate for the
aerospace industry; the glass was produced at a union factory. I took a
few photos, which I might post later. The pricetag for the staircase
was...astonishing. :)




"Special equipment used by facilities that fabricate for the aerospace
industry"?

I call Bull ****. Either that Harry, or some PR dude was handing you a
line.

To fabricate what you are talking about would require hydraulic tubing
benders, mandrels, etc. .... nothing very exotic. Normally they would
simply be made in ship-able sizes/lengths and then butt welded together on
site.

But how did they finish them? Were they passivated? Electropolished?
Were those tanks set up in the parking lot? In Boston? No friggin' way.

What you are talking about is pretty routine work for any fab shop with the
proper equipment.

The glass is something else.

Eisboch




If it's true, he got one thing right - the price tag. Union jobs always
cost more - with the same results if you're lucky.

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Jim" wrote in message
...
There are some pretty serious allegations on this web site.

http://www.unionfacts.com/


Cat got your tongue Harry?

Where I worked...no one was forced to sign a card, although under the
terms of employment they paid union dues and enjoyed any advantages the
full members enjoyed. ( except they couldn't run for office in the local)

I learned early that being in the union wasn't for me. The union tried to
fire me once. All I did was shut down machinery that going amuck at no risk
to anyone and no skin off my ass. Turns out I saved the company a bundle in
repairs by noticing it in time. The union's grudge was that it "wasn't your
job!". Idiots, the health of the company is health in being able to pay me
so why would I not? Seemed to me unions were suicidal and self destructive
there after. Anyway, management said no, and kept me on.

I refuse to work union, forget about signing silly cards.

Canuck57 wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
...
There are some pretty serious allegations on this web site.

http://www.unionfacts.com/


Cat got your tongue Harry?
Where I worked...no one was forced to sign a card, although under the
terms of employment they paid union dues and enjoyed any advantages the
full members enjoyed. ( except they couldn't run for office in the local)

I learned early that being in the union wasn't for me. The union tried to
fire me once. All I did was shut down machinery that going amuck at no risk
to anyone and no skin off my ass. Turns out I saved the company a bundle in
repairs by noticing it in time. The union's grudge was that it "wasn't your
job!".


Bull****.

Eisboch wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

Are you trying to convince us that your union construction crew bent and
fabricated the SS tubes, and formed the "perfect" panels of curved glass
on site? I don't believe it.

Or did they simply install them, supplied by a manufacturer?

Eisboch



BTW Harry, I am in no way inferring that union welders/fabricators are
inferior to non-union.
I am simply stating that they are not necessessary superior to non-union,
which is the case you keep trying to present.

I have quite a bit of experience with requirements for high quality welding.
The stainless steel or aluminum vacuum systems we built had some of the most
vigorous welding requirements in the trade.
They had to be leak tight to atoms of helium, drawn through voids or
inclusions or diffused through the welds by vacuum. Helium is number 2 on
the periodic chart, meaning the atoms are very, very small.

Anyway, once in a while we would have a contract that required a "U" stamp
or in a couple of rare cases, a "N" stamp, meaning our welders were
certified for nuclear work. We didn't have any "N" stamp certified
welders. One project required it for a subsection (not the entire
structure), so we subcontracted to a "N" certified union welder in another
shop. The finished piece was received and, as required by the contract, sent
out for x-ray. It flunked.

So, we subcontracted another one. Same thing. It flunked. The union shop
attempted to repair it without success ... flunked x-ray again.

Meanwhile, there are excuses flying around like mosquitoes in July. Time
was ticking and it was costing money.

We then had one of our very good, non-union welders go to the union shop to
witness the welding process on the forth attempt to build the subsystem.
One thing led to another (old history, not worth bringing back up) but it
turns out that our welder was quite a bit bigger than the shop's union
welder. Our guy grabbed the torch and spent three days welding up the
assembly.

Shipped it out for x-ray.... passed with no problems.

You need to talk to my wife about welding and porosity of materials. She
eats, sleeps and dreams that stuff.

BAR wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

Are you trying to convince us that your union construction crew bent
and fabricated the SS tubes, and formed the "perfect" panels of
curved glass on site? I don't believe it.

Or did they simply install them, supplied by a manufacturer?

Eisboch



BTW Harry, I am in no way inferring that union welders/fabricators are
inferior to non-union.
I am simply stating that they are not necessessary superior to
non-union, which is the case you keep trying to present.

I have quite a bit of experience with requirements for high quality
welding. The stainless steel or aluminum vacuum systems we built had
some of the most vigorous welding requirements in the trade.
They had to be leak tight to atoms of helium, drawn through voids or
inclusions or diffused through the welds by vacuum. Helium is number
2 on the periodic chart, meaning the atoms are very, very small.

Anyway, once in a while we would have a contract that required a "U"
stamp or in a couple of rare cases, a "N" stamp, meaning our welders
were certified for nuclear work. We didn't have any "N" stamp
certified welders. One project required it for a subsection (not the
entire structure), so we subcontracted to a "N" certified union welder
in another shop. The finished piece was received and, as required by
the contract, sent out for x-ray. It flunked.

So, we subcontracted another one. Same thing. It flunked. The union
shop attempted to repair it without success ... flunked x-ray again.

Meanwhile, there are excuses flying around like mosquitoes in July.
Time was ticking and it was costing money.

We then had one of our very good, non-union welders go to the union
shop to witness the welding process on the forth attempt to build the
subsystem. One thing led to another (old history, not worth bringing
back up) but it turns out that our welder was quite a bit bigger than
the shop's union welder. Our guy grabbed the torch and spent three
days welding up the assembly.

Shipped it out for x-ray.... passed with no problems.

You need to talk to my wife about welding and porosity of materials. She
eats, sleeps and dreams that stuff.


Mrs. Bertie the Plumber?

Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

Are you trying to convince us that your union construction crew bent
and fabricated the SS tubes, and formed the "perfect" panels of
curved glass on site? I don't believe it.

Or did they simply install them, supplied by a manufacturer?

Eisboch



BTW Harry, I am in no way inferring that union welders/fabricators
are inferior to non-union.
I am simply stating that they are not necessessary superior to
non-union, which is the case you keep trying to present.

I have quite a bit of experience with requirements for high quality
welding. The stainless steel or aluminum vacuum systems we built had
some of the most vigorous welding requirements in the trade.
They had to be leak tight to atoms of helium, drawn through voids or
inclusions or diffused through the welds by vacuum. Helium is number
2 on the periodic chart, meaning the atoms are very, very small.

Anyway, once in a while we would have a contract that required a "U"
stamp or in a couple of rare cases, a "N" stamp, meaning our welders
were certified for nuclear work. We didn't have any "N" stamp
certified welders. One project required it for a subsection (not the
entire structure), so we subcontracted to a "N" certified union
welder in another shop. The finished piece was received and, as
required by the contract, sent out for x-ray. It flunked.

So, we subcontracted another one. Same thing. It flunked. The
union shop attempted to repair it without success ... flunked x-ray
again.

Meanwhile, there are excuses flying around like mosquitoes in July.
Time was ticking and it was costing money.

We then had one of our very good, non-union welders go to the union
shop to witness the welding process on the forth attempt to build the
subsystem. One thing led to another (old history, not worth bringing
back up) but it turns out that our welder was quite a bit bigger
than the shop's union welder. Our guy grabbed the torch and spent
three days welding up the assembly.

Shipped it out for x-ray.... passed with no problems.

You need to talk to my wife about welding and porosity of materials.
She eats, sleeps and dreams that stuff.


Mrs. Bertie the Plumber?

Mrs. Bertie the Rocket Scientist. Welding expert, battery expert, and
analytical chemist. My biggest problem is getting her to go back to work
full time.

Boater wrote:
Canuck57 wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
...
There are some pretty serious allegations on this web site.

http://www.unionfacts.com/


Cat got your tongue Harry?
Where I worked...no one was forced to sign a card, although under the
terms of employment they paid union dues and enjoyed any advantages
the full members enjoyed. ( except they couldn't run for office in
the local)

I learned early that being in the union wasn't for me. The union
tried to fire me once. All I did was shut down machinery that going
amuck at no risk to anyone and no skin off my ass. Turns out I saved
the company a bundle in repairs by noticing it in time. The union's
grudge was that it "wasn't your job!".


Bull****.

Prove it.

Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
Canuck57 wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
...
There are some pretty serious allegations on this web site.

http://www.unionfacts.com/


Cat got your tongue Harry?
Where I worked...no one was forced to sign a card, although under
the terms of employment they paid union dues and enjoyed any
advantages the full members enjoyed. ( except they couldn't run for
office in the local)

I learned early that being in the union wasn't for me. The union
tried to fire me once. All I did was shut down machinery that going
amuck at no risk to anyone and no skin off my ass. Turns out I saved
the company a bundle in repairs by noticing it in time. The union's
grudge was that it "wasn't your job!".


Bull****.

Prove it.


I've heard that same story a million times...the "wasn't your job" to
save the whatever b.s.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Boater" wrote in message
...


I was on a condo construction site last week where a union crew turned
out an incredible three story winding stainless steel and glass
staircase. The tube bending and welds and panels of curved glass were
as close to perfect as any I've seen in my working life. Obviously,
what the job needed was someone with Justwait's skill to tack on some
footpegs and someone with FloridaJim's skill to sweep the floor.



Wait a hold-it Harry,

Are you trying to convince us that your union construction crew bent and
fabricated the SS tubes, and formed the "perfect" panels of curved glass
on site? I don't believe it.

Or did they simply install them, supplied by a manufacturer?

Eisboch


The staircase was built on site in a closed off area of the parking
garage with special equipment typically used at facilities that fabricate
for the aerospace industry; the glass was produced at a union factory. I
took a few photos, which I might post later. The pricetag for the
staircase was...astonishing. :)




"Special equipment used by facilities that fabricate for the aerospace
industry"?

I call Bull ****. Either that Harry, or some PR dude was handing you a
line.

To fabricate what you are talking about would require hydraulic tubing
benders, mandrels, etc. .... nothing very exotic. Normally they would
simply be made in ship-able sizes/lengths and then butt welded together on
site.

But how did they finish them? Were they passivated? Electropolished?
Were those tanks set up in the parking lot? In Boston? No friggin'
way.

What you are talking about is pretty routine work for any fab shop with
the proper equipment.

The glass is something else.

Eisboch




Yes, yes, of course he's full of ****. About the only thing that's
fabricated "onsite" is baserock recycled from demoed concrete. Aerospace
type fabrication in a parking garage, my ass.

I just had some bent glass delivered to my job on Monday aamaof. Perfect
fit, and flawless installation, and non-union shops to boot..

Some of the worst tradesman I've seen were union workers! Sure, they go thru
some sort of training, but then they're "protected" by the union and many
wind up being useless. They wouldn't last a week in a non-union shop (like
mine).

--Mike

"Boater" wrote in message
...

Canuck57 wrote:

I learned early that being in the union wasn't for me. The union tried
to fire me once. All I did was shut down machinery that going amuck at
no risk to anyone and no skin off my ass. Turns out I saved the company
a bundle in repairs by noticing it in time. The union's grudge was that
it "wasn't your job!".


Bull****.


Harry, I've been witness to the same type of thing many times. Due to the
somewhat unconventional nature of the business I was in, some of the
confrontations with union facilities were humorous, but in the end,
unnessessarily costly. I learned early on to add additional manhours to our
costs, particularly for installations of systems, if the customer had a
union shop. It just took much longer to accomplish.

Eisboch