Last summer I purchased an epic wing paddle http://www.epickayaks.com/.
This spring I pick up a forward stroke DVD and I am all existed about how
fast and how far I can go in my slow kayak without getting as tired.

The dealer that sold me the epic paddles does not carry the epic kayaks. He
named a few reasons that prompted this posting. ARE THERE ANY EPIC KAYAK
OWNERS OUT THERE? Will you kindly address durability, ocean rating and
please comment on the ease of getting in and out of one for a kayaker who is
6'5", 240lbs and shoe size of 13?

I've never paddled an Epic but...

In addition to a couple brief reviews on Paddling.net:

http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/show...html?prod=1032

There are a couple of interesting threads in the message archive there as
well. The first is a discussion about a new John Winters kayak design where
the new design is compared to the QCC Winters designs as well as Epic
kayaks. Somewhere in all this:

http://www.paddling.net/message/show...vice&tid=96384

The second is a short thread discussing some issues with Epic Kayaks.

Cheers!

DV



From: "TallGuyCA"
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
Reply-To: "TallGuyCA"
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle.touring
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:36:32 GMT
Subject: Reviews of Epic kayaks?

Last summer I purchased an epic wing paddle http://www.epickayaks.com/.
This spring I pick up a forward stroke DVD and I am all existed about how
fast and how far I can go in my slow kayak without getting as tired.

The dealer that sold me the epic paddles does not carry the epic kayaks. He
named a few reasons that prompted this posting. ARE THERE ANY EPIC KAYAK
OWNERS OUT THERE? Will you kindly address durability, ocean rating and
please comment on the ease of getting in and out of one for a kayaker who is
6'5", 240lbs and shoe size of 13?

From: "David J. Van den Branden"
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle.touring
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 22:16:17 -0500
Subject: Reviews of Epic kayaks?

I've never paddled an Epic but...

In addition to a couple brief reviews on Paddling.net:

http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/show...html?prod=1032

There are a couple of interesting threads in the message archive there as
well. The first is a discussion about a new John Winters kayak design where
the new design is compared to the QCC Winters designs as well as Epic
kayaks. Somewhere in all this:

http://www.paddling.net/message/show...vice&tid=96384

The second is a short thread discussing some issues with Epic Kayaks.



Oops. Forgot the third URL:

http://www.paddling.net/message/show...vice&tid=92591




From: "TallGuyCA"
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
Reply-To: "TallGuyCA"
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle.touring
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:36:32 GMT
Subject: Reviews of Epic kayaks?

Last summer I purchased an epic wing paddle http://www.epickayaks.com/.
This spring I pick up a forward stroke DVD and I am all existed about how
fast and how far I can go in my slow kayak without getting as tired.

The dealer that sold me the epic paddles does not carry the epic kayaks. He
named a few reasons that prompted this posting. ARE THERE ANY EPIC KAYAK
OWNERS OUT THERE? Will you kindly address durability, ocean rating and
please comment on the ease of getting in and out of one for a kayaker who is
6'5", 240lbs and shoe size of 13?

As a 6'5, 230lb, size 12 shoe paddler I hope I can give you some
basics of how the Epic's fit, and their performance and durability.

While Greg Barton is a mid sized paddler, Oscar Chalupsky is a larger
fellow who made sure that the boats will fit larger paddlers. I have
not had any difficulty getting into, or feeling comfortable in any of
the Epic boats.

The 12' GP has the largest cockpit of the three, and almost anyone can
get in, though smaller paddlers will find the lack of bracing
noticable.

The 16' Crusier and 18' Endurance have the same cockpit size, and
similar fit. There is more room in the Cruiser, but the Endurance is
not that much smaller. I found both to be fairly comfortable after
hours of paddling.

The durability depends on what year Epic, and what construction. They
keep changing their materials, and the newest boats are made out of
some great stuff. Oscar gave me a sample, but I cannot remember all
the materials. There are layers of glass, polyester, kevlar, and a
honeycomb core material which is tough stuff. The new boats can take a
serious beating.

The older boats (like my Endurance and Cruiser) seem to be made out of
more traditional glass, kevlar and carbon. I have not had any
durability issues, but I am careful with the boats. I don't know how
the new Graphite version will hold up, but from paddling it I suspect
it will hold up to most abuse.

The only point that concerns me, and only time will tell, is the seam.
The deck and hull are not bonded with glass, but instead a super
adhesive. Oscar says the stuff is tough, but again time will tell.

Here in Colorado we primarily paddle on class II-III rivers, and they
have survived the bumps associated with that.

As for seaworthyness, these are ultra-fast kayaks best suited to
calmer conditions. Sure they can handle some big waves and current,
but if that is where you are paddling there are better boats. But if
you want something really fast, and will paddle in calmer conditions
or sheltered areas, then the Epic is a great choice.

The boats themselves respond well to a lean turn, and secondary
stability is nice. They do not have much flare or any rocker, which is
why in rough conditions I grab something else. I have not noticed a
tendancy to weathercock, nor do I find that I need the rudder.

Speeds on the boats, at my paddling rate are as follows:

GP - 4.5 mph all day, 6.4mph in a sprint
Crusier - 5.5 mph all day, 8.6 mph in a sprint
Endurance - 6 mph all day, 9.2 mph in a sprint

I use an Epic active touring paddle, though the sprint speeds in the
Cruiser and Endurance were with the Large Wing.

I would be curious to know why your local dealer is against the Epic
kayaks. I think they are great boats, the best at what they were
designed to do.

- Eric

Oh, to address some of the issues people mentioned about earlier
Epic's

The origional hatches did leak. The new ones are better (new design).
They really need a cam buckle that will force the gasket to compress
better than the current system. I brought that to Oscars attention,
and he said they have something that will be out soon.

The bulkheads have never been a problem for me. Mine are glassed in. I
suspect that if I hit something very hard at the bulkhead, there would
be shear. As is the case for all glassed bulkheads. The new Epic hulls
are stiffer, so I expect that bulkhead problems on the new boats will
be almost nonexistant.

- Eric

Hi Eric,

Thank you for a complete analysis and review of the Epic Kayaks. My dealer
has since ordered and delivered one in each size. I tried the 12' a few
weeks ago and was surprised about the amount of room in the cockpit. I am
planning on trying the 18' Endurance in the next couple of weeks.

BTW, what do you recommend for kayak surfing? I am also considering sit on
top futura surf skis at http://www.surfskis.com/.

Thanks again for your input.



"Eric Nyre" wrote in message
om...
As a 6'5, 230lb, size 12 shoe paddler I hope I can give you some
basics of how the Epic's fit, and their performance and durability.

While Greg Barton is a mid sized paddler, Oscar Chalupsky is a larger
fellow who made sure that the boats will fit larger paddlers. I have
not had any difficulty getting into, or feeling comfortable in any of
the Epic boats.

The 12' GP has the largest cockpit of the three, and almost anyone can
get in, though smaller paddlers will find the lack of bracing
noticable.

The 16' Crusier and 18' Endurance have the same cockpit size, and
similar fit. There is more room in the Cruiser, but the Endurance is
not that much smaller. I found both to be fairly comfortable after
hours of paddling.

The durability depends on what year Epic, and what construction. They
keep changing their materials, and the newest boats are made out of
some great stuff. Oscar gave me a sample, but I cannot remember all
the materials. There are layers of glass, polyester, kevlar, and a
honeycomb core material which is tough stuff. The new boats can take a
serious beating.

The older boats (like my Endurance and Cruiser) seem to be made out of
more traditional glass, kevlar and carbon. I have not had any
durability issues, but I am careful with the boats. I don't know how
the new Graphite version will hold up, but from paddling it I suspect
it will hold up to most abuse.

The only point that concerns me, and only time will tell, is the seam.
The deck and hull are not bonded with glass, but instead a super
adhesive. Oscar says the stuff is tough, but again time will tell.

Here in Colorado we primarily paddle on class II-III rivers, and they
have survived the bumps associated with that.

As for seaworthyness, these are ultra-fast kayaks best suited to
calmer conditions. Sure they can handle some big waves and current,
but if that is where you are paddling there are better boats. But if
you want something really fast, and will paddle in calmer conditions
or sheltered areas, then the Epic is a great choice.

The boats themselves respond well to a lean turn, and secondary
stability is nice. They do not have much flare or any rocker, which is
why in rough conditions I grab something else. I have not noticed a
tendancy to weathercock, nor do I find that I need the rudder.

Speeds on the boats, at my paddling rate are as follows:

GP - 4.5 mph all day, 6.4mph in a sprint
Crusier - 5.5 mph all day, 8.6 mph in a sprint
Endurance - 6 mph all day, 9.2 mph in a sprint

I use an Epic active touring paddle, though the sprint speeds in the
Cruiser and Endurance were with the Large Wing.

I would be curious to know why your local dealer is against the Epic
kayaks. I think they are great boats, the best at what they were
designed to do.

- Eric

TallGuyCA wrote:

BTW, what do you recommend for kayak surfing? I am also considering sit on
top futura surf skis at http://www.surfskis.com/.

You do understand that surf skis are not for surfing, right? For surfing
you need a surf kayak (eg, http://www.humboldt1.com/~woldski/) or a wave
ski.

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Yup! absolutely and a momentary lapse of reason!


"Steve Cramer" wrote in message
...
TallGuyCA wrote:

BTW, what do you recommend for kayak surfing? I am also considering sit
on
top futura surf skis at http://www.surfskis.com/.

You do understand that surf skis are not for surfing, right? For surfing
you need a surf kayak (eg, http://www.humboldt1.com/~woldski/) or a wave
ski.

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

For big ocean stuff I would look at one of the Seaward boats. They are
designed for open water and some of their models are quite fast. They are
also making the Nigel Forester boats. Other good options are P&H and Valley
for Brit boats or Necky for a more West Coast style boat.
I must admit that being an east coaster I am a bit partial to the brit boats
and the more "Greenland" style boats.
I do have one friend who paddles an Epic and likes it a lot on calm days
when we cover a lot of distance, but is less at home when the wind kicks up
big swells and chop. He does manage surf landings. The Maine coast is not
congenial to treating a boat gingerly and the Epic holds up pretty well.
He's had it for two years now.

Cheers,
Eric J.

Steve Cramer wrote in
:

TallGuyCA wrote:

BTW, what do you recommend for kayak surfing? I am also considering
sit on top futura surf skis at http://www.surfskis.com/.

You do understand that surf skis are not for surfing, right? For
surfing you need a surf kayak (eg, http://www.humboldt1.com/~woldski/)
or a wave ski.


Have you ever paddled a Pyranha surf jet? I'm going to be spending a couple
of week in the Outer Banks in October and there is a place there that rents
them. I realize that it is not as good as a Wold wave ski but my choices
are going be rather limited.