Hi all,

I am totally new to kayaking, but I am very much into outdoor sports
in general as a XC ski racer. Recently I decided to add kayaking to
the list of activities (even though my apt is already more like a
sports store) Anyway... I am looking for two kayaks, for my girlfriend
and myself. We are planning to use them for flat water ~4 day touring
trips in places like Adack park around Saranac lake. Each kayak must
hold one 170 lbs person plus a ~40 lb backpack. The kayaks must be
foldable/infalable so that we could carry them in case getting to the
river/lake requires some hiking. And we don't have space for 2 hard
shell boats anyway. The price range... hm, below $1000 per boat?

2 questions. One, if I need each kayak to hold a backpack, does it
mean that I need two 2-person kayaks; or, are there single-person
kayaks still with a space for a ~40 lb pack? Two, do I need a self
bailer or a non-self-bailer? I know, non-self-bailers are made for
flat water, but... what if we once in a while decide to use the kayaks
to go down a level 3 river? I.e. is it totally oxymoron to try to find
a kayak which could be used both for flat water and ocassionally for
low-level white water?

Any recommendations on the choice of brand and general thoughts will
be appreciated.

revyakin, runnerXCskier

revyakin wrote:

Hi all,

I am totally new to kayaking, but I am very much into outdoor sports
in general as a XC ski racer. Recently I decided to add kayaking to
the list of activities (even though my apt is already more like a
sports store) Anyway... I am looking for two kayaks, for my girlfriend
and myself. We are planning to use them for flat water ~4 day touring
trips in places like Adack park around Saranac lake. Each kayak must
hold one 170 lbs person plus a ~40 lb backpack. The kayaks must be
foldable/infalable so that we could carry them in case getting to the
river/lake requires some hiking. And we don't have space for 2 hard
shell boats anyway. The price range... hm, below $1000 per boat?

The only thing you're going to find at that price is an inflatable. I
seriously doubt you'll find one that will carry that much gear and keep it
dry, but perhaps I'm wrong. Good folding boats are among the most
expensive of commercial kayaks, running as much as $5000. Frankly, you'd
be better off building your own folding boats if you're trying to save
money. Do a search on the name "Tom Yost"; he's got a web site of foldable
designs he's built and shares the information freely.

2 questions. One, if I need each kayak to hold a backpack, does it
mean that I need two 2-person kayaks; or, are there single-person
kayaks still with a space for a ~40 lb pack?

The pack that you use to carry the boat could also be used for hiking. It
might not be ideal, but it will be convenient.

Two, do I need a self
bailer or a non-self-bailer? I know, non-self-bailers are made for
flat water, but... what if we once in a while decide to use the kayaks
to go down a level 3 river?

Level 3 is not easy water. At that level, you should be using a whitewater
boat.

I.e. is it totally oxymoron to try to find
a kayak which could be used both for flat water and ocassionally for
low-level white water?

For level 1-2, it's possible. However, you're going to be seriously
compromising performance in both disciplines. There is no universal kayak.
Since you're a performance-oriented person (racer), you'll quickly find
this to be unacceptable and end up buying boats for each purpose. I would
suggest that you pick one activity for now and buy boats for it, then buy
them for the other activity when you can afford to. Used boats are a good
alternative, though used folders aren't very common. You can check the
classifieds at www.paddling.net.

--
Regards

Brian

revyakin wrote:
I am looking for two kayaks, for my girlfriend
and myself. We are planning to use them for flat water ~4 day touring
trips in places like Adack park around Saranac lake. Each kayak must
hold one 170 lbs person plus a ~40 lb backpack. The kayaks must be
foldable/infalable so that we could carry them in case getting to the
river/lake requires some hiking. And we don't have space for 2 hard
shell boats anyway. The price range... hm, below $1000 per boat?

The Folbot Yukon folding kayak comes pretty close to your requirements.
It has a large open cockpit (can be covered with optional
spraydeck/skirt) and can probably carry the backpack (depending on its
shape). But the price is a little over your limit - $1300 and I hope
you're not planning on carrying both boat and loaded pack for any great
distance since the boat alone is about 45 lbs.

2 questions. One, if I need each kayak to hold a backpack, does it
mean that I need two 2-person kayaks; or, are there single-person
kayaks still with a space for a ~40 lb pack? Two, do I need a self
bailer or a non-self-bailer? I know, non-self-bailers are made for
flat water, but... what if we once in a while decide to use the kayaks
to go down a level 3 river? I.e. is it totally oxymoron to try to find
a kayak which could be used both for flat water and ocassionally for
low-level white water?

It's been done, but I wouldn't recommend it since the desired
characteristics are quite different. For flat water you want efficiency
in going forward in a straight line and boats like the Yukon are made to
track straight (no rocker). For WW you want more maneuverability so the
boats are made to turn very easily (short and lots of rocker - bow and
stern are higher in the water compared to the center).

Brian Nystrom wrote in message ...
revyakin wrote:

Hi all,
Thanks Brian for your response.

OK, then I'll go for flat water inflatable boats. I am not that big of
a kayaking fan (not yet at least) to invest the time into building a
folding boat myself.

So, do I need a 2-person kayak to hold the backpack and myself
altogether, or are there single-person inflatables that can hold 40
lbs of gear?

runnerXCskier

I am totally new to kayaking, but I am very much into outdoor sports
in general as a XC ski racer. Recently I decided to add kayaking to
the list of activities (even though my apt is already more like a
sports store) Anyway... I am looking for two kayaks, for my girlfriend
and myself. We are planning to use them for flat water ~4 day touring
trips in places like Adack park around Saranac lake. Each kayak must
hold one 170 lbs person plus a ~40 lb backpack. The kayaks must be
foldable/infalable so that we could carry them in case getting to the
river/lake requires some hiking. And we don't have space for 2 hard
shell boats anyway. The price range... hm, below $1000 per boat?

The only thing you're going to find at that price is an inflatable. I
seriously doubt you'll find one that will carry that much gear and keep it
dry, but perhaps I'm wrong. Good folding boats are among the most
expensive of commercial kayaks, running as much as $5000. Frankly, you'd
be better off building your own folding boats if you're trying to save
money. Do a search on the name "Tom Yost"; he's got a web site of foldable
designs he's built and shares the information freely.

2 questions. One, if I need each kayak to hold a backpack, does it
mean that I need two 2-person kayaks; or, are there single-person
kayaks still with a space for a ~40 lb pack?

The pack that you use to carry the boat could also be used for hiking. It
might not be ideal, but it will be convenient.

Two, do I need a self
bailer or a non-self-bailer? I know, non-self-bailers are made for
flat water, but... what if we once in a while decide to use the kayaks
to go down a level 3 river?

Level 3 is not easy water. At that level, you should be using a whitewater
boat.

I.e. is it totally oxymoron to try to find
a kayak which could be used both for flat water and ocassionally for
low-level white water?

For level 1-2, it's possible. However, you're going to be seriously
compromising performance in both disciplines. There is no universal kayak.
Since you're a performance-oriented person (racer), you'll quickly find
this to be unacceptable and end up buying boats for each purpose. I would
suggest that you pick one activity for now and buy boats for it, then buy
them for the other activity when you can afford to. Used boats are a good
alternative, though used folders aren't very common. You can check the
classifieds at www.paddling.net.

revyakin wrote:

Brian Nystrom wrote in message ...
revyakin wrote:

Hi all,
Thanks Brian for your response.

OK, then I'll go for flat water inflatable boats. I am not that big of
a kayaking fan (not yet at least) to invest the time into building a
folding boat myself.

So, do I need a 2-person kayak to hold the backpack and myself
altogether, or are there single-person inflatables that can hold 40
lbs of gear?

I'm not very familiar with inflatables, so I really can't help you with that. While you're at
paddling.net, you can check some of specs and reviews of inflatables. If you can find a copy
of the Canoe and Kayak Annual Equipment Guide, it will have a comprehensive listing of brands
and models with detailed specs.

--
Regards

Brian

revyakin wrote:

So, do I need a 2-person kayak to hold the backpack and myself
altogether, or are there single-person inflatables that can hold
40 lbs of gear?

No problem, many inflatable kayaks can hold this much, some more.
The best network resource to learn about such boats is he

http://www.theboatpeople.com/iks_touring.html

Nice! Thanks a lot! This boat:

http://www.theboatpeople.com/iks_touring.html#solar

is apparently what I need.

No problem, many inflatable kayaks can hold this much, some more.
The best network resource to learn about such boats is he

http://www.theboatpeople.com/iks_touring.html