"andrei" wrote in message
om...

Watching the "Croc. Hunter" on TV with my son, I gathered he feels that
gators are, for want of a better word, tame. Despite their size and
obvious
ability to hunt man, they seldom do so (though there was a golfer who
learned that there are limits to their patience - pictures available on
the
internet, should you feel so inclined).


well, I believe that the famous golfer pictures are actually a scam
and that this is not a gator, but a croc. I am not sure where I read
this, but this is something I read on the net.


Could be. Gators aren't known for swallowing folks whole, but tend to thrash
and tear off large chunks. In any case, they are formidable animals whose
attitudes could well be worse than they are.

....stuff deleted

I have some African friends who told me how formidable and dangerous
crocs are. In fact, my high school biology teacher who was making
some photos of cros in Africa was attacked and killed. This is
dramatically different from US gators. But, keep in mind that the
gator is *not* inherently somehow smaller of weaker. I once saw a 14
foot gator lunge at an adult man and it was a very scary sight: hte
guy only survived because the gator tried to challenge and scare him
rather than eat him. Only one small foot or two separated this guys
from some truly huge jaws. So corner or startle a gator and you got
yourself a very good croc substitute.

Personally, I'd give gators plenty of room. They may not have the bad
attitude attributed to crocs, but their size, speed, and jaws must give one
pause. Of course, unlike folks who feed sharks, I have an aversion to being
eaten. While death may or may not be in the cards tomorrow, I'd generally
prefer not to be some critter's meal.

Rick

Just for the record on the croc/golfer story:

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/animals/golfcroc.htm

There was a TV news piece on a doctor paddling a yellow fiberglass kayak
attacked last year in S. Florida waters. Think the story also appeared in
Paddler mag. It was a new boat, and he had never had problems in his red
kayak with gators, but figured the large male that attacked thought he was
seeing the under-throat of another male encroaching in his territory. I've
been watching for more details, since I am planning at trip to the Keys this
winter.

Four years ago, a woman friend's husband was pulled from their tandem by
crocks in Africa while on their honeymoon. They had been paddling in India,
prior to this leg of the trip, and had experience around large crocks. She
had only seconds to fight off the attack, and fortunately stayed upright.
She said her husband's paddle was taken at first, and he held on thinking he
could wrestle it from the crock. Authorities found only bits of clothing
downriver. They said the "real" danger was hippos, not crocks for small
boats.

Cheers,

Vic

"andrei" wrote in message
om...
Now I don't paddle in gator water, but I just got back from visiting
some
friends in Australia who told me stories of crocodiles coming out of the
water
and taking paddlers right off of their SOT's. I was not able to actually
verify
the stories (and we all know how them Aussies love to tell stories :-)
but I
might rethink the SOT for paddling in gator territory. Then again, I
think I'll
just stick with the west coast of North America and let you guys sweat
the big
lizards :-))

Scott
So.Cal.

Hi Scott,

Just a short note on gators. They are *not* crocs and I never heard
of a non-provoked attack on a kayak in Florida even though there are
tens of thousands of kayaks and gators all over the state. Gators are
always around, and to most local kayakers they are really not too much
of a concern. I just happen to be a little more nervous since I moved
here only a year ago and began kayaking only a couple of days ago
(before - I only used canoes). Finally - I can't imagine why a SOT
would be less of a target for an autralian croc than a regular kayak.
When canoeing I passed very close to large gators (once I was about 4
feet away form a 10 foot gator in a narrow passage and all he did was
to slowly dive to the bottom of the creek). The only dangerous gator
I ever saw here was one which had been fed by some morons. He
actually lunged at people (and was later removed by Fish and
Wildlife). I suppose that my worst fear would be to startle a large
gator in a narrow passage and have him wack his tail (they do that
when they are ****ed) and throw me off the kayak. I also hear that
females can be territorial and agressive when their eggs hatch.
Anyway - I just wanted to tell you that in 99% of circumstances
Florida gators are not Australian crocs. The last 1% is what makes me
a little nervous I suppose ;-)

Cheers,

Andrei

Just to add my $.02. As has been pointed out, alligators are not
crocodiles, and for the most part crocodiles are reputed to have a much
meaner disposition. I think about the only place in the world that you can
even find alligators and crocodiles together is in the very tip of south
Florida, and even then your chances of coming across a crocodile aren't all
that good. I painted eyeballs on the front of my kayak, and after thinking
about it decided I might have made a terrible mistake. I live in central
Florida now, go kayaking a lot here, and thought (belatedly) that I might
frighten some critters. That certainly hasn't been my experience. I guess
that alligators and other critters that I might get scared of, see me as
something too big to eat, but then I am obviously not one of *them*, nor do
I look like anything else they have seen. Critters keep their distance
from me, as I think they may be afraid I might eat them, but they don't
flee in terror, neither do they associate me with food or a threat. I
don't go poking alligators with a stick, and I try to give them a pretty
wide berth, but I am nowhere near as paranoid about them as I first was. I
worry about biting flies a *whole* lot more now.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

There was a TV news piece on a doctor paddling a yellow fiberglass kayak
attacked last year in S. Florida waters. Think the story also appeared in
Paddler mag. It was a new boat, and he had never had problems in his red
kayak with gators, but figured the large male that attacked thought he was
seeing the under-throat of another male encroaching in his territory. I've
been watching for more details, since I am planning at trip to the Keys
this
winter.

Keys=salt. Gators=Freshwater -- at least most of the time.

I regularly paddle in Tampa Bay (salt). A few years ago there was a gator in
one of the local bayous at the mouth of a little creek. Surprised a lot of
people by its presence -- which only lasted some 6 months or so.

I also fairly regularly paddle in a local lake that has hundreds of gators.
I've seen 20 or more in a hour of paddling. The bottom of my boat has been
bumped by spooked gators fleeing the approach of my fearsome vessel and
swimming from shore to deeper water (Not too swift, running toward what
you're trying to get away from, but nobody ever accused a gator of genius).
And, I did once put the boat on a ramming course with a big gator -- he
ducked, I was beyond the point of being able to change course. Mostly,
however, they start getting out of the way as soon as I'm within a hundred
yards or so of them.

Gators are not crocs.

--
David Kiewit
www.patent-faq.com
(1) 727 866 0669
5901 Third Street South
St. Petersburg FL US 33705

Well all this discussion about crocs must have put the hex on some poor 19
year old who was hunting a few geese in Australia's Northern Territory. One
of the delightful crocs decides he is easier meat than the geese and grabs
him. Luckily his aunt was nearby and "punched the croc on the nose" (I kid
you not thats how its been reported) and swimming away. So now you have the
remedy for croc attacks -

1. Always carry your aunty on the deck in an easily accessible position.
2. Make sure she has trained with Mike Tyson.

--
www.bribieisland4x4hire.com
VW Kombi Camper Buy Backs
Landcruiser Troopy - Toyota Hilux Crew Cab
Mitsubishi Pajero - Landrover V8 Swag Camper

"John" wrote in message ...
----- Original Message -----
From: andrei
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle.touring
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 3:50 PM
Subject: how to get back on an ocean kayak?



I surf SOTs in ocean waves, get knocked off many times each session,
and have to get back on before I get pounded by the next wave. There
are 2 steps that you need to be ready for. First, you may have to
turn the boat right-side up. The easiest way to do this is at the
side of the boat, reaching under, lifting up the near side and
flipping or throwing it over. Two, get in. I've always found it
faster to get in from the side but it depends on the style of your
boat. A boat with high sides may be hard to get back in regardless.
If speed is your concern I would practice getting in from the side so
you can flip it right-side up (if you have to) and climb in without
having to waste time changing positions in the water. Wear a PFD!

Jacob

I surf SOTs in ocean waves, get knocked off many times each session,
and have to get back on before I get pounded by the next wave. There
are 2 steps that you need to be ready for. First, you may have to
turn the boat right-side up. The easiest way to do this is at the
side of the boat, reaching under, lifting up the near side and
flipping or throwing it over. Two, get in. I've always found it
faster to get in from the side but it depends on the style of your
boat. A boat with high sides may be hard to get back in regardless.
If speed is your concern I would practice getting in from the side so
you can flip it right-side up (if you have to) and climb in without
having to waste time changing positions in the water. Wear a PFD!

Jacob

And the winner is......

......... getting in from the side!

Thanks y'all for your advice. I ended up practicing in the
Intercoastal River and it is, indeed, really easy to get in from the
side. (-: now I am ready for the gator infested waters of our
marshes and rivers I suppoe/hope :-)

Kind regards!

"Roger Martin" wrote in message
...

1. Always carry your aunty on the deck in an easily accessible position.
2. Make sure she has trained with Mike Tyson.

If she had trained with Mike Tyson she would have *bitten* the croc's ears
off... ;-)

Katherine