What would be your choice for a non motorized minimalist long distance
touring boat suitable for extended trips on large rivers? I'm not so
much interested in manufactured name brand boats as I am in TYPES of
boats suitable for this use. The following criteria should be used.
1. Light enough for one person to portage over land and car top.80lbs
2. Able to carry enough food and water and gear for one week.
I'm guessing 300 lb capacity including person.
3. Able to allow the user to lie down and sleep in the boat if
necessary.
4. Able to be paddled by one person, rowed or sailed.
5. Able to withstand large wakes from commercial vessels and pleasure
motor boats.

Here are the boats that I have seen suggested for this type of use.
All fall short in some way, some more than others.

Oldtown Discovery Type canoe (difficult for one person to handle)
Greenland style kayak (Can't be rowed or sailed easily. Limited
capacity. Can't sleep in it. Can't row or
sail it.
St Lawrence type Skiff Too large to paddle, too heavy to car top.
Adirondack Guide boat Too narrow to sail
Aleut Style Baidarka Same as Greenland Kayak
Barnegat Sneak Box too heavy to car top or portage, can't
paddle.
Are there any others? Mabey I'm asking alot to be able to paddle, row
and sail a boat. Any thoughts appreciated.
SteveJ

Except for the rowing part a Kruger might fit the bill:

http://www.krugercanoes.com/

Pretty nice boats. Pretty expensive too. I wonder what the cross
section amidships looks like.

Mike McCrea wrote:
Except for the rowing part a Kruger might fit the bill:

http://www.krugercanoes.com/

If you're looking for a Kruger design without spending tons of bucks,
you might look for a used Loon or Monarch. The Loon is a design which
predates the Dreamcatcher, but it still has an extensive expedition
pedigree. The Loons were built by Sawyer until the late 80's. Mad
River built a version called the Monarch which is very similar. I
believe both were used on the circumnavigation of South America, but
my memory is fuzzy, it may have just been the Loon on that trip.

Used Loons, when they can be found, are not all that expensive. Our
shop currently has 2, a 43lb Kevlar version for $1750, and a 55lb
Glass for $1250. They are the Sawyer version, with the 4 way seat
(adjusts up, down, forward and backwards) and a rudder. If you look
online you might be able to find one locally for a good price,
shipping boats is expensive so I am not trying to sell mine here, just
giving comparative info.

The cross section on a Loon is a shallow arch. The boat is technically
a sea-canoe, since it has a canoe hull not a kayak hull (wider,
designed for the seat to rest above the waterline, open cockpit). I
believe the hull just meets 3/27 racing specifications, it is very
fast. If you slide the seat out, there is a 7' cockpit which you can
lay down and sleep in. We have run the boats through class II
whitewater without problem, they are incredibly seaworthy. For speed
raise the seat for a better paddling position, in rougher water drop
the seat for a lower center of gravity. I have not tried sailing one,
nor have I rigged a rowing system onto it, so I cannot testify to how
the boats handle in those scenarios.

The Loon and Monarch are built lighter than Krugers boats, because
they were being marketed to people more interested in performance than
tank like durability. The only downside is the rudders are very old,
and probably should be retrofitted with something a little more
modern.

However like Mike said, they meet the criteria. We have used them for
2+ week trips, so they have plenty of capacity.

Another boat which would meet the criteria is a Klepper, however it is
not nearly as fast as a Kruger. You can sleep in a Klepper, you can
sail them, they have been used to cross the Atlantic. The only
downside is their speed, or lack thereof. Incidentally the Klepper and
the Kruger look similar, and if you are just looking for the type of
craft that can do what you are looking for, it will probably share a
similar design.

Eric

I was wondering what people were going to come up with as far as a long
distance boat. My impression was that Steve was asking for the
impossible, although a Folboat might come pretty close. I believe that
a Folboat has crossed the atlantic. When you are talking about remote
trips, long or short, a folding boat makes a lot of sense. I guess that
would be my dream boat, one I could put in a duffel, and then travel by
bus, plane, floatplane, horse, porter, or any other means. I believe
that some of the folding kayaks could be paddled, sailed, rowed,
cartopped, etc, and many of them are designed for serious tripping. The
Cruz book on Folding Kayaks is worth reading.

I enjoyed reading about a Kruger trip the length of the Yukon River, 80
days, Mr. Kruger was about 80 years old when he did it in 2002. The
link is below. Not sure what will happen to the company when he dies,
but then he must have been in good health in 2002 to complete an 80 day
river trip!

http://www.hansonhomestead.com/Yukon...onHomePage.htm

Richard



Mike McCrea wrote:

Except for the rowing part a Kruger might fit the bill:

http://www.krugercanoes.com/

Hi--I'm kind of suprised that you reject a guideboat as being too narrow.
The seem much "beamier" than canoes to me. I don't know how they handle big
water (large wakes) though. As per Mike McCrea's post, Kruger boats seem
extraordinary. For me, however, one of those sitting by the fire type dreams
of a boat...

Good luck
Bill
"steveJ" wrote in message
...
What would be your choice for a non motorized minimalist long distance
touring boat suitable for extended trips on large rivers? I'm not so
much interested in manufactured name brand boats as I am in TYPES of
boats suitable for this use. The following criteria should be used.
1. Light enough for one person to portage over land and car top.80lbs
2. Able to carry enough food and water and gear for one week.
I'm guessing 300 lb capacity including person.
3. Able to allow the user to lie down and sleep in the boat if
necessary.
4. Able to be paddled by one person, rowed or sailed.
5. Able to withstand large wakes from commercial vessels and pleasure
motor boats.

Here are the boats that I have seen suggested for this type of use.
All fall short in some way, some more than others.

Oldtown Discovery Type canoe (difficult for one person to handle)
Greenland style kayak (Can't be rowed or sailed easily. Limited
capacity. Can't sleep in it. Can't row or
sail it.
St Lawrence type Skiff Too large to paddle, too heavy to car top.
Adirondack Guide boat Too narrow to sail
Aleut Style Baidarka Same as Greenland Kayak
Barnegat Sneak Box too heavy to car top or portage, can't
paddle.
Are there any others? Mabey I'm asking alot to be able to paddle, row
and sail a boat. Any thoughts appreciated.
SteveJ






-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Well I actually have a guideboat that I built myself.
What I meant is that it's too narrow to sail. While I have not
tried putting a sail on it, I don't think it would sail
very well. It is also just a little too wide to paddle comfortably.
I think the guide boat is close to what I'm lookng for but it is
primarily a rowing craft.Be nice to have something to face foward in.
My boat is narrower at the water line than most canoes but wider at the
gunwales, so initiial stability is less than a canoe. Also, the
freeboard is a little low to handle power boat wakes.


WG wrote:
Hi--I'm kind of suprised that you reject a guideboat as being too narrow.
The seem much "beamier" than canoes to me. I don't know how they handle big
water (large wakes) though. As per Mike McCrea's post, Kruger boats seem
extraordinary. For me, however, one of those sitting by the fire type dreams
of a boat...

Good luck
Bill
"steveJ" wrote in message
...

What would be your choice for a non motorized minimalist long distance
touring boat suitable for extended trips on large rivers? I'm not so
much interested in manufactured name brand boats as I am in TYPES of
boats suitable for this use. The following criteria should be used.
1. Light enough for one person to portage over land and car top.80lbs
2. Able to carry enough food and water and gear for one week.
I'm guessing 300 lb capacity including person.
3. Able to allow the user to lie down and sleep in the boat if
necessary.
4. Able to be paddled by one person, rowed or sailed.
5. Able to withstand large wakes from commercial vessels and pleasure
motor boats.

Here are the boats that I have seen suggested for this type of use.
All fall short in some way, some more than others.

Oldtown Discovery Type canoe (difficult for one person to handle)
Greenland style kayak (Can't be rowed or sailed easily. Limited
capacity. Can't sleep in it. Can't row or
sail it.
St Lawrence type Skiff Too large to paddle, too heavy to car top.
Adirondack Guide boat Too narrow to sail
Aleut Style Baidarka Same as Greenland Kayak
Barnegat Sneak Box too heavy to car top or portage, can't
paddle.
Are there any others? Mabey I'm asking alot to be able to paddle, row
and sail a boat. Any thoughts appreciated.
SteveJ







-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

People did, and still do, sail guide boats.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:56:38 GMT, steveJ wrote:

Well I actually have a guideboat that I built myself.
What I meant is that it's too narrow to sail. While I have not
tried putting a sail on it, I don't think it would sail
very well. It is also just a little too wide to paddle comfortably.
I think the guide boat is close to what I'm lookng for but it is
primarily a rowing craft.Be nice to have something to face foward in.
My boat is narrower at the water line than most canoes but wider at the
gunwales, so initiial stability is less than a canoe. Also, the
freeboard is a little low to handle power boat wakes.


WG wrote:
Hi--I'm kind of suprised that you reject a guideboat as being too narrow.
The seem much "beamier" than canoes to me. I don't know how they handle big
water (large wakes) though. As per Mike McCrea's post, Kruger boats seem
extraordinary. For me, however, one of those sitting by the fire type dreams
of a boat...

Good luck
Bill
"steveJ" wrote in message
...

What would be your choice for a non motorized minimalist long distance
touring boat suitable for extended trips on large rivers? I'm not so
much interested in manufactured name brand boats as I am in TYPES of
boats suitable for this use. The following criteria should be used.
1. Light enough for one person to portage over land and car top.80lbs
2. Able to carry enough food and water and gear for one week.
I'm guessing 300 lb capacity including person.
3. Able to allow the user to lie down and sleep in the boat if
necessary.
4. Able to be paddled by one person, rowed or sailed.
5. Able to withstand large wakes from commercial vessels and pleasure
motor boats.

Here are the boats that I have seen suggested for this type of use.
All fall short in some way, some more than others.

Oldtown Discovery Type canoe (difficult for one person to handle)
Greenland style kayak (Can't be rowed or sailed easily. Limited
capacity. Can't sleep in it. Can't row or
sail it.
St Lawrence type Skiff Too large to paddle, too heavy to car top.
Adirondack Guide boat Too narrow to sail
Aleut Style Baidarka Same as Greenland Kayak
Barnegat Sneak Box too heavy to car top or portage, can't
paddle.
Are there any others? Mabey I'm asking alot to be able to paddle, row
and sail a boat. Any thoughts appreciated.
SteveJ







-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Well, what I am coming around to is modifying the design of the
guideboat I am using now and building one that is more suitable
for sailing yet narrow enough aft to paddle without scraping the
gunnel. I've also thought of making the height of the bow and stern
lower to reduce windage while making the center freeboard slighty
higher. Possibly a lapstrake hull would make the boat drier and
compensate for the lower bow height.
The boat I have seems too narrow to sail except in very light winds.
The folbot design others mentioned might work. But to me they seem slow
due to their width at the waterline.
I'd prefer to build my own boat so the manufactured boats mentioned
might work but it would involve copying an existing boat. I'd prefer to
find a design that is in the public domain but I will probably just
design my own.
I wonder if anyone knows where to find a lines drawing of MacGreggor's
Rob-Roy canoe?

wrote:
People did, and still do, sail guide boats.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:56:38 GMT, steveJ wrote:


Well I actually have a guideboat that I built myself.
What I meant is that it's too narrow to sail. While I have not
tried putting a sail on it, I don't think it would sail
very well. It is also just a little too wide to paddle comfortably.
I think the guide boat is close to what I'm lookng for but it is
primarily a rowing craft.Be nice to have something to face foward in.
My boat is narrower at the water line than most canoes but wider at the
gunwales, so initiial stability is less than a canoe. Also, the
freeboard is a little low to handle power boat wakes.


WG wrote:

Hi--I'm kind of suprised that you reject a guideboat as being too narrow.
The seem much "beamier" than canoes to me. I don't know how they handle big
water (large wakes) though. As per Mike McCrea's post, Kruger boats seem
extraordinary. For me, however, one of those sitting by the fire type dreams
of a boat...

Good luck
Bill
"steveJ" wrote in message
...


What would be your choice for a non motorized minimalist long distance
touring boat suitable for extended trips on large rivers? I'm not so
much interested in manufactured name brand boats as I am in TYPES of
boats suitable for this use. The following criteria should be used.
1. Light enough for one person to portage over land and car top.80lbs
2. Able to carry enough food and water and gear for one week.
I'm guessing 300 lb capacity including person.
3. Able to allow the user to lie down and sleep in the boat if
necessary.
4. Able to be paddled by one person, rowed or sailed.
5. Able to withstand large wakes from commercial vessels and pleasure
motor boats.

Here are the boats that I have seen suggested for this type of use.
All fall short in some way, some more than others.

Oldtown Discovery Type canoe (difficult for one person to handle)
Greenland style kayak (Can't be rowed or sailed easily. Limited
capacity. Can't sleep in it. Can't row or
sail it.
St Lawrence type Skiff Too large to paddle, too heavy to car top.
Adirondack Guide boat Too narrow to sail
Aleut Style Baidarka Same as Greenland Kayak
Barnegat Sneak Box too heavy to car top or portage, can't
paddle.
Are there any others? Mabey I'm asking alot to be able to paddle, row
and sail a boat. Any thoughts appreciated.
SteveJ







-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 13:36:18 GMT, steveJ wrote:


I wonder if anyone knows where to find a lines drawing of MacGreggor's
Rob-Roy canoe?

Lots of them on the Web. Before I gave up the idea of building my own
boat, I found tons of drawings and plans, some for RobRoys.

Sounds as if what you want won't come anywhere near being a guide boat
with all the changes, so you might as well look at lots of plans until
you find one that does suit. Try www.duckworks.com as a starting
place. They should have links (as well as some free plans) that'll
lead you to links, ad infinitum.
--
rbc: vixen Fairly harmless

Hit reply to email.
Though I'm very slow to respond.
http://www.visi.com/~cyli