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replacing gel coat
Anyone out there had any experience replacing a gel coat exterior ? I've got a glass on kevlar hull that has a light blue gel coat
exterior that I'd like to replace with a white gel coat. I hear it's very tricky, lots of work, and usually disastrous for an amateur to attempt. I figure the best answer is to have a pro do it but I'm not sure where to begin looking. Thanks, any feedback will be welcomed. Te Canaille |
replacing gel coat
On 7-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote:
Anyone out there had any experience replacing a gel coat exterior ? I've got a glass on kevlar hull that has a light blue gel coat exterior that I'd like to replace with a white gel coat. I hear it's very tricky, lots of work, and usually disastrous for an amateur to attempt. If you get the old gel coat off, you'll then have a problem making the new gel coat layer smooth. Better to just paint over the existing gel coat with an epoxy paint. You can get this at a marine supply shop - it's made for painting fiberglass boats. If you can spray it on, it will be quite smooth. I've heard of folks paying a local auto painter to do the spraying. Mike |
replacing gel coat
Mike :
Thanks for the reply. I reckon epoxy paint will go well on many surfaces, but if specifically for fiberglass then the question becomes how well will it do on gelcoat ? If adhesion is not a question, then how well will it handle scratches ( will the blue show thorough any scratches ) ? Has anyone seen this ( epoxy paint on gelcoat ) done with good results ? Thanks for feedback. Te Canaille "Michael Daly" wrote in message ... On 7-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote: Anyone out there had any experience replacing a gel coat exterior ? I've got a glass on kevlar hull that has a light blue gel coat exterior that I'd like to replace with a white gel coat. I hear it's very tricky, lots of work, and usually disastrous for an amateur to attempt. If you get the old gel coat off, you'll then have a problem making the new gel coat layer smooth. Better to just paint over the existing gel coat with an epoxy paint. You can get this at a marine supply shop - it's made for painting fiberglass boats. If you can spray it on, it will be quite smooth. I've heard of folks paying a local auto painter to do the spraying. Mike |
replacing gel coat
On 7-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote:
how well will it handle scratches ( will the blue show thorough any scratches ) ? It's paint, not diamond. Of course scratches will show the blue if deep enough. Heck, why does everyone worry so much about scratches - they're a fact of life in paddling. Paddle and once you accumulate enough scratches and gouges, fix them and get on with your life. Scratches... sheesh! Mike |
replacing gel coat
Gee sorry to bother you Mike but scratches is the reason I'm looking to re do my hull and if that worries you then why reply in
the first place. I'm not to anxious to spend a lot of time and money to get rid of one color scratches just to replace them with others. Fact is this hull is a loaner used in fla****er instruction clinics and it needs to look sharp. Te Canaille "Michael Daly" wrote in message ... On 7-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote: how well will it handle scratches ( will the blue show thorough any scratches ) ? It's paint, not diamond. Of course scratches will show the blue if deep enough. Heck, why does everyone worry so much about scratches - they're a fact of life in paddling. Paddle and once you accumulate enough scratches and gouges, fix them and get on with your life. Scratches... sheesh! Mike |
replacing gel coat
On 7-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote:
Fact is this hull is a loaner used in fla****er instruction clinics and it needs to look sharp. I'm trying to discover a reason why this should be true. If you want a boat that doesn't show scratches, buy white. Any other color shows scratches. Personally, I'd not worry about it and tell the students that scratches are normal and I don't paddle just to look good. Mike |
replacing gel coat
After "dinging" my boat, I went to my local shop manager who had managed
composite at Wilderness Systems.a pro. I could have done it, but didn't want to get in the business. He was doing me a favor. I developed a stress crack from tightening too hard on my vehicle. He says this is not uncommon with composites. I forget if he said that it was more common with kevlar than fiberglass. It seems if you are not careful, you may leave tiny hairs when you sand kevlar that show through the gelcoat or resin. These hairs tend to wick moisture to the kevlar mat. He did both interior and exterior work. He built up the inside using small, then medium, then large layers. To smooth the last layer, he used a minicell block as a sponge over plastic sheeting. Same thing with the outside. It had to be a particular kind of gelcoat, something with the right base. That's what I know. If you want to get good at this, risk mistakes. If you want to paddle, pay someone. Mike Goodman High Point, NC |
replacing gel coat
Thanks for a rational and experienced answer. That's pretty much what I need to know.
Te Canaille "KAYAKFAN" wrote in message ... After "dinging" my boat, I went to my local shop manager who had managed composite at Wilderness Systems.a pro. I could have done it, but didn't want to get in the business. He was doing me a favor. I developed a stress crack from tightening too hard on my vehicle. He says this is not uncommon with composites. I forget if he said that it was more common with kevlar than fiberglass. It seems if you are not careful, you may leave tiny hairs when you sand kevlar that show through the gelcoat or resin. These hairs tend to wick moisture to the kevlar mat. He did both interior and exterior work. He built up the inside using small, then medium, then large layers. To smooth the last layer, he used a minicell block as a sponge over plastic sheeting. Same thing with the outside. It had to be a particular kind of gelcoat, something with the right base. That's what I know. If you want to get good at this, risk mistakes. If you want to paddle, pay someone. Mike Goodman High Point, NC |
replacing gel coat
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:07:31 -0500, "Te Canaille"
wrote: Gee sorry to bother you Mike but scratches is the reason I'm looking to re do my hull and if that worries you then why reply in the first place. I'm not to anxious to spend a lot of time and money to get rid of one color scratches just to replace them with others. Fact is this hull is a loaner used in fla****er instruction clinics and it needs to look sharp. Te Canaille You didn't mention that it was scratches you were trying to get rid of in the first place. May have seemed obvious to you, but left it open for answering just your basic question. Many of us think nothing of scratches unless they harm the fiber of the boat. For all we knew, you just wanted a more fashionable colour. However, if you take his well meant advice and epoxy it, you can then just put some of the same colour over any new scratches. Have them mix you several small cans of paint so you won't have to worry about colour matching next time. He replied because he was trying to be helpful to your original post. You could try thanking him, even though he couldn't read your mind well enough to know your exact concern and had only your own words to go on. "Michael Daly" wrote in message ... On 7-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote: how well will it handle scratches ( will the blue show thorough any scratches ) ? It's paint, not diamond. Of course scratches will show the blue if deep enough. Heck, why does everyone worry so much about scratches - they're a fact of life in paddling. Paddle and once you accumulate enough scratches and gouges, fix them and get on with your life. Scratches... sheesh! Mike -- rbc: vixen Fairly harmless Hit reply to email. But strip out the 'invalid.' Though I'm very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli |
replacing gel coat
wrote in message ...
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:07:31 -0500, "Te Canaille" wrote: He replied because he was trying to be helpful to your original post. You could try thanking him, even though he couldn't read your mind well enough to know your exact concern and had only your own words to go on. You need to go one post further back in which I thanked Mike first then asked about scratches as seen below for your convenience : "Thanks for the reply. I reckon epoxy paint will go well on many surfaces, but if specifically for fiberglass then the question becomes how well will it do on gelcoat ? If adhesion is not a question, then how well will it handle scratches ( will the blue show thorough any scratches ) ?" At this point he knew about my concerns but replied with a sarcasm and an assumption that no one should care about scratches as he does ( see below ). Different people have different styles and it's not his place to admonish anyone for their own reasons and suggest his way is the only valid viewpoint. He is not the god of paddling. Heck, why does everyone worry so much about scratches - they're a fact of life in paddling. Paddle and once you accumulate enough scratches and gouges, fix them and get on with your life. Scratches... sheesh! Mike |
replacing gel coat
On 8-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote:
Different people have different styles and it's not his place to admonish anyone for their own reasons and suggest his way is the only valid viewpoint. He is not the god of paddling. _NO_ONE_ makes a scratchproof canoe or kayak. Get over it! Mike |
replacing gel coat
Te,
Try your local surfboard shop. They'll be able to re-gel it. Ken B. On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:03:30 -0500, "Te Canaille" wrote: Anyone out there had any experience replacing a gel coat exterior ? I've got a glass on kevlar hull that has a light blue gel coat exterior that I'd like to replace with a white gel coat. I hear it's very tricky, lots of work, and usually disastrous for an amateur to attempt. I figure the best answer is to have a pro do it but I'm not sure where to begin looking. Thanks, any feedback will be welcomed. Te Canaille Apply ROT13 to address to reply |
replacing gel coat
Hey Ken -
Great idea ! If I ever get close to one I'll give it a go. :-)) Seriously, thanks but unfortunately I'm a long way from any shops like that. Te wrote in message ... Te, Try your local surfboard shop. They'll be able to re-gel it. Ken B. On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:03:30 -0500, "Te Canaille" wrote: Anyone out there had any experience replacing a gel coat exterior ? I've got a glass on kevlar hull that has a light blue gel coat exterior that I'd like to replace with a white gel coat. I hear it's very tricky, lots of work, and usually disastrous for an amateur to attempt. I figure the best answer is to have a pro do it but I'm not sure where to begin looking. Thanks, any feedback will be welcomed. Te Canaille Apply ROT13 to address to reply |
replacing gel coat
Re-gelling a boat is a royal pain. I have re-gelled some park benches
for a local park, and redid a very old beat up powerboat, and it's never going to look good. If you have some scratches in the boat that need to be polished out, 600 grit and polishing compound will remove them (at the price of thinly wearing down your gel). If the boat has chips, I would fix the chips and again polish it out. But the origional question is how to change a boat from blue to white: * Note: This is how I did it in the 90's, EPA rules may make this method illegal since you release tons of vapors into the air. Check first Repair any chips and cracks in the blue gel (repair them with white) - hull needs to be good before you try anything Remove the gunwales and external hardware - otherwise it will get all messy Sand the entire surface with 100 grit sandpaper, followed by 220 - makes it smooth and gives a rough surface to bond to wipe with acetone, then a tack cloth - removes any oil, dirt, dust Mix gel with surfacing agent and acetone - agent allows the gel to cure hard, acetone thins it for spraying Pour in paint sprayer - make sure sprayer has pressure adjustments so you can regulate pressure and volume. in a very well ventalated area, spray the boat with gel until the entire surface is covered You will have a re-gelled boat Now why don't people do this? First, it will look horrible. The spray, no matter how fine will orange peel or splatter. That is the nature of gel. Second, the surfacing agent is a type of wax. When you go to repair future scratches, guess what. The lovely white gel you sprayed on is contaminated with wax and your repair won't want to stick. Third, when you go to wet sand your white gel, and bruise through to blue, it isn't easy to fix, and the repair may not hold. If you don't add surfacing agent, your gel will not cure hard, it will be sticky forever (or until it grabs enough dirt to look really bad) You will add 6-10 pounds to the boat. But it can be done. It's just not a good idea. - Eric |
replacing gel coat
Thanks Eric. That's pretty much what I need to know. Sounds like I won't be going in that direction. This is a hull that could used
in clinics, at demos, in competition, and seen at some shows so needs to look good. It's been used on a lot of rocky creeks over the years and although in my opinion a gel coated boat should not be, but it was fun to paddle and now I thought to salvage it for other uses. As you point out even a new coating will not look all that hot, so reckon I'll just continue as before. I'm having fun either way. Thanks. Te Canaille "Eric Nyre" wrote in message om... Re-gelling a boat is a royal pain. I have re-gelled some park benches for a local park, and redid a very old beat up powerboat, and it's never going to look good. If you have some scratches in the boat that need to be polished out, 600 grit and polishing compound will remove them (at the price of thinly wearing down your gel). If the boat has chips, I would fix the chips and again polish it out. But the origional question is how to change a boat from blue to white: * Note: This is how I did it in the 90's, EPA rules may make this method illegal since you release tons of vapors into the air. Check first Repair any chips and cracks in the blue gel (repair them with white) - hull needs to be good before you try anything Remove the gunwales and external hardware - otherwise it will get all messy Sand the entire surface with 100 grit sandpaper, followed by 220 - makes it smooth and gives a rough surface to bond to wipe with acetone, then a tack cloth - removes any oil, dirt, dust Mix gel with surfacing agent and acetone - agent allows the gel to cure hard, acetone thins it for spraying Pour in paint sprayer - make sure sprayer has pressure adjustments so you can regulate pressure and volume. in a very well ventalated area, spray the boat with gel until the entire surface is covered You will have a re-gelled boat Now why don't people do this? First, it will look horrible. The spray, no matter how fine will orange peel or splatter. That is the nature of gel. Second, the surfacing agent is a type of wax. When you go to repair future scratches, guess what. The lovely white gel you sprayed on is contaminated with wax and your repair won't want to stick. Third, when you go to wet sand your white gel, and bruise through to blue, it isn't easy to fix, and the repair may not hold. If you don't add surfacing agent, your gel will not cure hard, it will be sticky forever (or until it grabs enough dirt to look really bad) You will add 6-10 pounds to the boat. But it can be done. It's just not a good idea. - Eric |
replacing gel coat
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replacing gel coat
KAYAKFAN wrote: After "dinging" my boat, I went to my local shop manager who had managed composite at Wilderness Systems.a pro. I could have done it, but didn't want to get in the business. He was doing me a favor. I developed a stress crack from tightening too hard on my vehicle. He says this is not uncommon with composites. I forget if he said that it was more common with kevlar than fiberglass. It seems if you are not careful, you may leave tiny hairs when you sand kevlar that show through the gelcoat or resin. These hairs tend to wick moisture to the kevlar mat. He did both interior and exterior work. He built up the inside using small, then medium, then large layers. To smooth the last layer, he used a minicell block as a sponge over plastic sheeting. Same thing with the outside. It had to be a particular kind of gelcoat, something with the right base. That's what I know. If you want to get good at this, risk mistakes. If you want to paddle, pay someone. Mike Goodman High Point, NC |
replacing gel coat
Te Canaille wrote:
Fact is this hull is a loaner used in fla****er instruction clinics and it needs to look sharp. Honestly, if I ever saw an instructor with a super shiny boat, I'd go elsewhere. Instructing, by its very nature, is hard on equipment. I don't see how an instructor could keep up with dealing with daily dings and scratches, and keep a boat looking pristine. For that matter, I don't know why one would want to. Nothing personal, but it strikes me that your priorities (or those of the instructor involved) may be a bit out of line. I have to agree with the others here, form follows function. |
replacing gel coat
Brian :
Thanks for your opinion and view of paddlesport. Maybe you need to expand your horizons a bit. Paddlesport includes a wide spectrum of instruction, not just moving water and rocky bottoms. There are many kinds of instruction that does not involve scratching hulls and being hard on equipment. In fact, more of that than not. They perhaps are not part of your world or your venue. I've been around this for a long while and realize that many people tend to believe that their milieu is the only thing going and it is to them. Most instruction does not involve basic river or white water, but is done in calm venues. I started out instructing moving and whitewater and felt as though this was "the paddling world". Once I got off of rivers and went on to other things, I fianlly realized that worldwide, most hulls are paddled on fla****er without rocks and hulls can and should be kept in good shape. I still teach in venues in which I expect a hull to be scratched and accept that, but also teach in some where that does not happen and a scratched up hull is a sign of poor control. Sounds to me as though you've had exposure to only certain types of venues and your priorities are a bit narrow. Te Canaille "Brian Nystrom" wrote in message ... Te Canaille wrote: Fact is this hull is a loaner used in fla****er instruction clinics and it needs to look sharp. Honestly, if I ever saw an instructor with a super shiny boat, I'd go elsewhere. Instructing, by its very nature, is hard on equipment. I don't see how an instructor could keep up with dealing with daily dings and scratches, and keep a boat looking pristine. For that matter, I don't know why one would want to. Nothing personal, but it strikes me that your priorities (or those of the instructor involved) may be a bit out of line. I have to agree with the others here, form follows function. |
replacing gel coat
On 9-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote:
a scratched up hull is a sign of poor control An unscratched hull is a sign of someone who doesn't take his kayak anywhere. Or a paddler who has his priorities wrong. At the infamous kayaking school in Anglesey, they have paddlers do a surf launch and landing on rocky beaches, just to get folks away from the fear of putting the kayak into real life situations. Flat water and lovely sandy beaches represent a small fraction of real paddling venues. Gel coat gets scratched and is easy to repair. Most of the folks I know that think like you paddle expensive strippers. Those of us that paddle real kayaks (and not showboats) don't worry about minor dings and scratches. That gets in the way of real paddling. I'm teaching a session on gel coat repair in a couple of weeks (June 26 to be precise, around 9:30AM) Parry Island in Georgian Bay - where sandy beaches are usually man-made. If you want to know how to deal with reality, drop by. your priorities are a bit narrow. This from a guy that thinks his kayak's looks are important. Mike |
replacing gel coat
Very macho, but not very revelent in the world beyond your niche. I'm only suggesting that you take a look at the larger world
of paddling, the vast majority of which is not what you and your circle are into. When I started out in whitewater canoes ( the kayak had not yet come along ) it was the same way. Boy were we deflated when we found out that only a small percentage of those who took paddling instruction were in ww canoes. It is hard to accept but there it is. Try to expand your field of knowledge past just what you do and understand that the huge majority of paddling students are not on a fast track to be a stud paddler or an instructor. They just simply want to learn a few basic things to have fun on the waterand that's where the large majority of instruction takes place. My original post was simply a question about re-gelcoating a hull. It had nothing to do with motives. I received several direct answers that told me what I needed to know. Why is it that boys like you need to bring this macho, hey dudes I really can scratch up a hull so I must be a stud, attitude into the mix. Could it be that you need to prove something ? I mean really, judging a paddlers talents at instruction or technique based on the number of scratches on their hull ? Grow up. Te "Michael Daly" wrote in message ... On 9-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote: a scratched up hull is a sign of poor control An unscratched hull is a sign of someone who doesn't take his kayak anywhere. Or a paddler who has his priorities wrong. At the infamous kayaking school in Anglesey, they have paddlers do a surf launch and landing on rocky beaches, just to get folks away from the fear of putting the kayak into real life situations. Flat water and lovely sandy beaches represent a small fraction of real paddling venues. Gel coat gets scratched and is easy to repair. Most of the folks I know that think like you paddle expensive strippers. Those of us that paddle real kayaks (and not showboats) don't worry about minor dings and scratches. That gets in the way of real paddling. I'm teaching a session on gel coat repair in a couple of weeks (June 26 to be precise, around 9:30AM) Parry Island in Georgian Bay - where sandy beaches are usually man-made. If you want to know how to deal with reality, drop by. your priorities are a bit narrow. This from a guy that thinks his kayak's looks are important. Mike |
replacing gel coat
"Michael Daly" wrote in
: On 9-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote: a scratched up hull is a sign of poor control An unscratched hull is a sign of someone who doesn't take his kayak anywhere. Or a paddler who has his priorities wrong. At the infamous kayaking school in Anglesey, they have paddlers do a surf launch and landing on rocky beaches, just to get folks away from the fear of putting the kayak into real life situations. Flat water and lovely sandy beaches represent a small fraction of real paddling venues. Gel coat gets scratched and is easy to repair. Most of the folks I know that think like you paddle expensive strippers. Those of us that paddle real kayaks (and not showboats) don't worry about minor dings and scratches. That gets in the way of real paddling. I paddle a cedar strip kayak. I've used it in lessons but I actually prefer to teach in a plastic boat like a Prijon Seayak. Most of the lessons I am involved in teach self and assisted rescues. Even on a t-rescue (not a full t-x rescue) there is quite a bit of boat to boat contact. That said, my cedar strip kayak has quite a few dings and scratches, some of them long and ugly. I didn't build a kayak to be used as a piece of furniture. I built the kayak to be paddled and it shows it. When I built my first boat I spent the last couple of weeks putting on several coats of varnish so that it had a nice glossy finish. On the day that I launched it I paddled for 15 minutes then came back to the dock to get something and the stern slide under the dock and hit a metal pipe, putting a 5" long, 1/4" wide scratch on the rear deck. "OK", I thought, "my boat is finally finished". It's had lots of scratches and dings since but they're easy to repair. |
replacing gel coat
Good point John. Fact is the boat I want to repair has a similar history. Even though a hull gets scratched there's nothing
wrong with wanting to re-do the exterior. It shows a certain degree of caring about one's gear and personal look. Students hear about 10% of what you say but absorb about 90% of what you are. I agree, hulls shouldn't be treated as furniture. I have some nice hulls that are used and dinged but I keep them looking good regardless. Te "John Fereira" wrote in message .. . "Michael Daly" wrote in : On 9-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote: a scratched up hull is a sign of poor control An unscratched hull is a sign of someone who doesn't take his kayak anywhere. Or a paddler who has his priorities wrong. At the infamous kayaking school in Anglesey, they have paddlers do a surf launch and landing on rocky beaches, just to get folks away from the fear of putting the kayak into real life situations. Flat water and lovely sandy beaches represent a small fraction of real paddling venues. Gel coat gets scratched and is easy to repair. Most of the folks I know that think like you paddle expensive strippers. Those of us that paddle real kayaks (and not showboats) don't worry about minor dings and scratches. That gets in the way of real paddling. I paddle a cedar strip kayak. I've used it in lessons but I actually prefer to teach in a plastic boat like a Prijon Seayak. Most of the lessons I am involved in teach self and assisted rescues. Even on a t-rescue (not a full t-x rescue) there is quite a bit of boat to boat contact. That said, my cedar strip kayak has quite a few dings and scratches, some of them long and ugly. I didn't build a kayak to be used as a piece of furniture. I built the kayak to be paddled and it shows it. When I built my first boat I spent the last couple of weeks putting on several coats of varnish so that it had a nice glossy finish. On the day that I launched it I paddled for 15 minutes then came back to the dock to get something and the stern slide under the dock and hit a metal pipe, putting a 5" long, 1/4" wide scratch on the rear deck. "OK", I thought, "my boat is finally finished". It's had lots of scratches and dings since but they're easy to repair. |
replacing gel coat
"Te Canaille" wrote in news:_U_xc.1$MO3.0@lakeread01:
Good point John. Fact is the boat I want to repair has a similar history. Even though a hull gets scratched there's nothing wrong with wanting to re-do the exterior. It shows a certain degree of caring about one's gear and personal look. And for some that amount of degree is very low, for others very high. If I thought any of the scratches on the hull of my cedar strip boat significantly impaired performance or would compromise the integrity of the hull I'd bring my boat up from my friends shop and refinish it. As long as they're only cosmetic I'll leave it the shop where it's readily available for a paddle anytime I want. I'll probably use it for the lesson I'll probably help with this weekend. Students hear about 10% of what you say but absorb about 90% of what you are. Probably some truth in that. I hesitate, however, to buy the notion that student equate instructor competance with the physical appearance of the boat they're paddling, or whether they're decked out in new high tech clothing. In fact, my experience has had an opposite effect. I also have been a student many times in classes over the past few years. In one case, one of the instructers was wearing an old sun faded PFD. Unlike the clean shaven pretty boy ski instructor image with a french accent, he had a full beard and a british accent. I listened to everything he said though because of who he was. His name was Nigel Foster. In another lesson at a sea kayaking symposium a few years ago I took a refining your forward stroke class. After introductions we got into our boat and the instructor hopped into a loaner plastic boat (a Dagger). He attempted to put on the nylon spray skirt a couple of time before asking me to help put on the poorly fitting skirt. Once he started paddling though he danced with that kayak like nothing I had ever seen. The class was very well structured and my forward stroke improved significantly from that two hour lesson. I was paying close attention to what he said, as he has probably made more forward strokes than anyone in the world over the past five years, including the circumnavigation of all of the British isles, the South Island of New Zealand, and most recently Iceland. Chris Duff is a remarkable paddler, even is a cheap plastic boat with a poorly fitting spray skirt. |
replacing gel coat
John : I tend to agree with a lot that you say. When you wrote :
I hesitate, however, to buy the notion that student equate instructor competence with the physical appearance of the boat they're paddling, or whether they're decked out in new high tech clothing. I think you're putting words in my mouth that were never there. Competence is either there or not. A certain degree or caring is only that and it means that some folks care about that others don't. The problem with some of the other posters here is that they were implying that they would judge an instructor on scratches rather than competence. In one case, one of the instructers was wearing an old sun faded PFD. Unlike the clean shaven pretty boy ski instructor image with a french accent, BTW a faded PFD is a sure sign that it should be replaced. PFD loose floatation over the years and by the time they're faded have generally lost enough to require a new one. Te "John Fereira" wrote in message .. . "Te Canaille" wrote in news:_U_xc.1$MO3.0@lakeread01: Good point John. Fact is the boat I want to repair has a similar history. Even though a hull gets scratched there's nothing wrong with wanting to re-do the exterior. It shows a certain degree of caring about one's gear and personal look. And for some that amount of degree is very low, for others very high. If I thought any of the scratches on the hull of my cedar strip boat significantly impaired performance or would compromise the integrity of the hull I'd bring my boat up from my friends shop and refinish it. As long as they're only cosmetic I'll leave it the shop where it's readily available for a paddle anytime I want. I'll probably use it for the lesson I'll probably help with this weekend. Students hear about 10% of what you say but absorb about 90% of what you are. Probably some truth in that. I hesitate, however, to buy the notion that student equate instructor competance with the physical appearance of the boat they're paddling, or whether they're decked out in new high tech clothing. In fact, my experience has had an opposite effect. I also have been a student many times in classes over the past few years. In one case, one of the instructers was wearing an old sun faded PFD. Unlike the clean shaven pretty boy ski instructor image with a french accent, he had a full beard and a british accent. I listened to everything he said though because of who he was. His name was Nigel Foster. In another lesson at a sea kayaking symposium a few years ago I took a refining your forward stroke class. After introductions we got into our boat and the instructor hopped into a loaner plastic boat (a Dagger). He attempted to put on the nylon spray skirt a couple of time before asking me to help put on the poorly fitting skirt. Once he started paddling though he danced with that kayak like nothing I had ever seen. The class was very well structured and my forward stroke improved significantly from that two hour lesson. I was paying close attention to what he said, as he has probably made more forward strokes than anyone in the world over the past five years, including the circumnavigation of all of the British isles, the South Island of New Zealand, and most recently Iceland. Chris Duff is a remarkable paddler, even is a cheap plastic boat with a poorly fitting spray skirt. |
replacing gel coat
On 9-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote:
Very macho, but not very revelent in the world beyond your niche Nothing macho about it. Just don't assume that paddling a pretty boat in calm water represents some wide view of the world. I've paddled lots of places and as I said in my previous post - calm water and sandy beaches doesn't represent much of real paddling locations. In the real world scratches happen and it doesn't represent bad boat control as you foolishly claim. Why is it that boys like you need to bring this macho, hey dudes I really can scratch up a hull so I must be a stud, attitude into the mix. Could it be that you need to prove something ? I never did anything of the kind. I'm not proving anything either. I said that kayaks get scratched and can be fixed. I also fix them and don't get worked up over having them look pretty. I mean really, judging a paddlers talents at instruction or technique based on the number of scratches on their hull ? Never did - I just question whether someone that frets over scratches has his head together. Grow up. Don't call me boy, junior, and stop talking down to us. It's your attitude that needs adjustment. Mike |
replacing gel coat
Anyone out there had any experience replacing a gel coat exterior ?
Sorry...I was a bit late to your post. Gelcoat can be painted with gelcoat. It's a process similar to painting automotive lacquer. It's probably an easier solution for you at this point although it will require a lot of sanding and possibly filler in the deep scratches. The trick for the gelcoat is the use of a reducer specifically designed to "air dry" the gelcoat. Acetone or lacquer thinner will not work and the only way you can get the reducer (in small quantity) is from a shop than actually works with fiberglass. I use a mix of 1.5% hardener and 5% reducer when I work with repairs and it seems to do very well for me. Once it hardens, it will require color sanding with a fine grit paper (400 to 600) and machine buffing. At that point...it looks the same and has the same durability as it did when it came from the mold. Just my two cents. |
replacing gel coat
Thanks Barry, that's a lot more than two cents worth of advise. Sounds like I'd be in over my head. I'm probably gonna need a pro
for this. Te "Barry" wrote in message om... Anyone out there had any experience replacing a gel coat exterior ? Sorry...I was a bit late to your post. Gelcoat can be painted with gelcoat. It's a process similar to painting automotive lacquer. It's probably an easier solution for you at this point although it will require a lot of sanding and possibly filler in the deep scratches. The trick for the gelcoat is the use of a reducer specifically designed to "air dry" the gelcoat. Acetone or lacquer thinner will not work and the only way you can get the reducer (in small quantity) is from a shop than actually works with fiberglass. I use a mix of 1.5% hardener and 5% reducer when I work with repairs and it seems to do very well for me. Once it hardens, it will require color sanding with a fine grit paper (400 to 600) and machine buffing. At that point...it looks the same and has the same durability as it did when it came from the mold. Just my two cents. |
replacing gel coat
Te Canaille wrote:
Brian : Thanks for your opinion and view of paddlesport. Maybe you need to expand your horizons a bit. Paddlesport includes a wide spectrum of instruction, not just moving water and rocky bottoms. There are many kinds of instruction that does not involve scratching hulls and being hard on equipment. In fact, more of that than not. Unless you're teaching nothing other than textbook strokes and braces, your boat will get scratched up from instructing. For example, teaching rescues scratches boats, albeit mostly decks. Teaching people in real conditions (surf, rocks, etc.) scratches boats, mostly hulls. They perhaps are not part of your world or your venue. I've been around this for a long while and realize that many people tend to believe that their milieu is the only thing going and it is to them. Most instruction does not involve basic river or white water, but is done in calm venues. I started out instructing moving and whitewater and felt as though this was "the paddling world". Once I got off of rivers and went on to other things, I fianlly realized that worldwide, most hulls are paddled on fla****er without rocks and hulls can and should be kept in good shape. I still teach in venues in which I expect a hull to be scratched and accept that, but also teach in some where that does not happen and a scratched up hull is a sign of poor control. Sounds to me as though you've had exposure to only certain types of venues and your priorities are a bit narrow. Well, your absolutely wrong, as I don't paddle whitewater at all and rarely paddle freshwater. Nearly all of my paddling is along the New England coast. If you really think that keeping your boat pretty is going to impress students, you're seriously mistaken. Skill and confidence are what impresses students, not prissiness. If you think lillydipping around on flat water is all there is to teaching, you're equally mistaken. Sure, I teach basic stokes on flat water, but I also teach in the real world. Teaching someone strokes or rescue techniques on a flat pond and pronouncing them worthy is a serious mistake, as it doesn't prepare them anything other than more of the same. In the training we do for our club's trip leaders, we emphasize real world situations where you have wind, waves, bad weather, rough shores and panicky, uncooperative and/or injured victims to deal with. That type of realistic teaching takes a toll on boats. "a scratched up hull is a sign of poor control"? Do you actually believe that? If so, you're the last person I would want to take instruction from! A scratched hull is sign that a boat gets used and used hard. It's a sign that the paddler pushes their limits in an effort to learn, or puts themselves at risk in order to teach. You are the only instructor I've ever encountered who worries about how pretty their boat is. That should tell you something. BTW, there's not much point in trying to hide scratches anyway, since once the boat is wet, the water film masks the scratches. |
replacing gel coat
Te Canaille wrote: John : I tend to agree with a lot that you say. When you wrote : I hesitate, however, to buy the notion that student equate instructor competence with the physical appearance of the boat they're paddling, or whether they're decked out in new high tech clothing. I think you're putting words in my mouth that were never there. Competence is either there or not. A certain degree or caring is only that and it means that some folks care about that others don't. The problem with some of the other posters here is that they were implying that they would judge an instructor on scratches rather than competence. YOU are the one who said "a scratched hull is a sign of poor control"! In one case, one of the instructers was wearing an old sun faded PFD. Unlike the clean shaven pretty boy ski instructor image with a french accent, BTW a faded PFD is a sure sign that it should be replaced. PFD loose floatation over the years and by the time they're faded have generally lost enough to require a new one. More nonsense. Depending on the color (some fade faster than others) and the conditions it's used in (such as clear, tropical, lots of sun) a PFD can fade badly in a single season. It means nothing other than that the dye in the fabric has given up the ghost. Padding in a PFD doesn't degrade that quickly. It's quite obvious that a shiny image means a lot to you. It makes me wonder if you carry a mirror and a comb in the pockets of your PFD, instead of a VHF and flares. |
replacing gel coat
Te Canaille wrote:
Thanks Barry, that's a lot more than two cents worth of advise. Sounds like I'd be in over my head. I'm probably gonna need a pro for this. That's why people suggested at the top of the thread that if you were just trying to make the boat look pretty, it's not worth messing with gelcoat. Filling and painting is much easier. |
replacing gel coat
"Te Canaille" wrote in news:Wx4yc.18$MO3.8@lakeread01:
John : I tend to agree with a lot that you say. When you wrote : I hesitate, however, to buy the notion that student equate instructor competence with the physical appearance of the boat they're paddling, or whether they're decked out in new high tech clothing. I think you're putting words in my mouth that were never there. I don't think so. If I recall the beginning of this thread correctly you were asking for information on repairing/replacing gel coat on a boat and that the primary reason was that the boat has to look good because it was going to be used for teaching. My impression of that was that you felt that an unscratched hull would instill an impression of confidence or professionalism in the students regarding the instructor. My contention (and Brian's, I believe) is that for many students it can have an opposite effect. For me, if an instructor is using equipment that appears to be well used, it indicates that the instructor likely has a lot of experience. Competence is either there or not. A certain degree or caring is only that and it means that some folks care about that others don't. I agree with that. The problem with some of the other posters here is that they were implying that they would judge an instructor on scratches rather than competence. In both cases, there is an implication that the students would have a first impression about the instructor based on the appearance of the equipment he/she is using. In one case, one of the instructers was wearing an old sun faded PFD. Unlike the clean shaven pretty boy ski instructor image with a french accent, BTW a faded PFD is a sure sign that it should be replaced. PFD loose floatation over the years and by the time they're faded have generally lost enough to require a new one. A friend of mine just sold an unused PFD that was beginning to fade. It had been sitting on the rack closest to the window. It was yellow and made of a fabric which seems prone to fading. My purple Serratus PFD doesn't appear to have faded much even though I've used it quite a bit for 4-5 years. An unfaded PDF that appears to be brand new is a sure sign that it has had little use, which to me, is an indication of less experience. |
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