Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

I'm quite comfortable with a 60 degree feathered paddle and understand
the advantages in windy situations. However I've recently begun to
learn and practice Braces. would't the learning curve be quicker in
learning to brace quickly either side if you used an unfeathered
paddle? Same goes for learning to roll? I really don't have to think
about feathering with my index hand since the forward stroke has
become second nature or intuitive due to repetion. Bracing, or rolling
however is not yet intuitive and during practive I forgot to twist my
wrist on the index side and the brace failed by having the paddle dive
into the water with me following. I know the stock answer will be with
practice, the proper indexing will also become intuitive during
bracing /rolling. My point is that while I may devote whole days to
the forward stroke, I can only afford an hour or so once a week to
practice. Does it not make more sense to switch to an unfeathered
paddle for all strokes and trade off the few times wind becomes a
severe issue

Gene

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

On 13-Jun-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

I'm quite comfortable with a 60 degree feathered paddle and understand
the advantages in windy situations. However I've recently begun to
learn and practice Braces. would't the learning curve be quicker in
learning to brace quickly either side if you used an unfeathered
paddle?

Maybe, but you'd not necessarily be learning the right thing.

Same goes for learning to roll?

You should learn to roll without any reference to indexing. If you
_need_ to roll, you can't rely on your paddle being perfectly oriented.
In fact, once you learn to roll with any setup, you should immediately
work on learning to roll without setup.

I really don't have to think
about feathering with my index hand since the forward stroke has
become second nature or intuitive due to repetion. Bracing, or rolling
however is not yet intuitive and during practive I forgot to twist my
wrist on the index side and the brace failed by having the paddle dive
into the water with me following. I know the stock answer will be with
practice, the proper indexing will also become intuitive during
bracing /rolling.

No, the stock answer is not to use indexing in rolling and bracing.
The handedness of a paddle is for forward stroke only. When using
a paddle for a forward stroke, you use _one_ hand to control the
blade angle. If the paddle is set to the correct feather for the
type of stroke you're using, the control is almost non-existent.
You only need control if the feather doesn't match your technique.
Note that it is a myth that unfeathered paddles don't need such
control.

When rolling and bracing (or for that matter, sculling, drawing, prying
etc) you use the hand closest to the paddle blade to control that blade.
Hence if you brace on the right, use the right hand for control. If
you brace on the left, use the left hand. That means that it doesn't
matter whether you are using a feathered or unfeathered paddle, the
control is the same. For that matter, it doesn't matter what feather
angle you use (e.g. 30, 45, 60, 75, 90), the control is the same.

What this means though, is you have to develop the ability to use the
off-hand (i.e. the left hand if you use a right hand controlled paddle)
to grip and control the paddle correctly. With practice, it becomes
natural.

I use both feathered and unfeathered paddles and have a variable feather
Euro paddle. I don't have problems with bracing or rolling since getting
away from the idea of one control hand.

Does it not make more sense to switch to an unfeathered
paddle for all strokes and trade off the few times wind becomes a
severe issue

I carry a Greenland-style storm paddle as a spare. Regardless of what
paddle I'd use on a given day, that one is used with a sliding stroke
if the headwinds are really brutal. Since it's short enough to get
out of the wind, feather is not an issue.

Mike

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

Gene,

I gave up on feathered paddles years ago and still fail to see the benefit.
I am much more comfortable with an unfeathered paddle, though if the blade
were really narrow, I guess it would not matter much. I would say that
switching back and forth is a mistake, at least for me. My muscle memory is
such that I cannot now roll with a feathered paddle without taking a long
time to consider the process and a couple of uncomfortable near failures.
Your mileage may vary. Dowd (I believe it was he) wrote that only in a
direct headwind does a feathered paddle produce any advantage. I switched
while paddling in a storm with the wind on my beam, and I never went back.

Rick

..
"Gene Cosloy" wrote in message
om...
I'm quite comfortable with a 60 degree feathered paddle and understand
the advantages in windy situations. However I've recently begun to
learn and practice Braces. would't the learning curve be quicker in
learning to brace quickly either side if you used an unfeathered
paddle? Same goes for learning to roll? I really don't have to think
about feathering with my index hand since the forward stroke has
become second nature or intuitive due to repetion. Bracing, or rolling
however is not yet intuitive and during practive I forgot to twist my
wrist on the index side and the brace failed by having the paddle dive
into the water with me following. I know the stock answer will be with
practice, the proper indexing will also become intuitive during
bracing /rolling. My point is that while I may devote whole days to
the forward stroke, I can only afford an hour or so once a week to
practice. Does it not make more sense to switch to an unfeathered
paddle for all strokes and trade off the few times wind becomes a
severe issue

Gene

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

Rick wrote:
Gene,

Dowd (I believe it was he) wrote that only in a
direct headwind does a feathered paddle produce any advantage.

Defintely words of wisdom and absolutely correct. When you consider that
when paddling into a headwind, the paddler is in the strongest, most
stable position, the difference that a feathered paddle makes is not
that great. Also, feather angles less than 90 degrees will cause the
paddle to lift or dive in a headwind. Overall, I found feathering to be
an overall disadvantage.

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

Gene Cosloy wrote:

would't the learning curve be quicker in
learning to brace quickly either side if you used an unfeathered
paddle? Same goes for learning to roll?

Absolutely. Learning these skills with an unfeathered paddle all but
eliminates the "on side, off side" phenomenon. Nearly all of the people
I've met who've had trouble learning to roll on both sides were using
feathered paddles. Most people have much less trouble learning to roll
on both sides when the technique is an exact mirror image. It's much
less confusing than having to think about "I'm rolling on my right side,
so I have to hold my wrist in this position."

Once one learns to roll or brace, the technique becomes automatic. It's
getting to that stage that's much more difficult with a feathered paddle.

Michael's method is very interesting and makes a lot of sense if you're
going to paddle feathered. Unfortunately, up until now I've never known
or heard of anyone who teaches that way.

One final word of caution. If you intend to paddle feathered, I suggest
that you learn to brace and roll with a feathered paddle. Learning with
an unfeathered paddle, then going out with your paddle feathered is a
good way to screw yourself up if you get into a capsize situation.

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

On 14-Jun-2004, Brian Nystrom wrote:

Michael's method is very interesting and makes a lot of sense if you're
going to paddle feathered. Unfortunately, up until now I've never known
or heard of anyone who teaches that way.

It's been discussed on Paddlewise and is probably relatively new in teaching.
I don't think you'll find it in any organization's orthodox teaching method
yet.

It's the sort of thing I realized I was doing without being taught. The
idea of using my right hand to control the left blade when sculling seems
rather odd when you think about it. Ditto controlling the offside blade
with the onside hand in an offside roll. By using this mirror control
for things like rolls, it gives you a mirror approach as you suggest
without switching to an unfeathered paddle.

Mike

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

Brian Nystrom wrote:

Dowd (I believe it was he) wrote that only in a
direct headwind does a feathered paddle produce any advantage.

Defintely words of wisdom and absolutely correct. When you consider that
when paddling into a headwind, the paddler is in the strongest, most
stable position, the difference that a feathered paddle makes is not
that great. Also, feather angles less than 90 degrees will cause the
paddle to lift or dive in a headwind. Overall, I found feathering to be
an overall disadvantage.

Some people think a feathered paddle (45-60 degrees) feels more natural
during the paddle stroke, and blades are always in a nearly ideal position
for offside bracing. Feathered paddles can be shorter (due to different
technique used) and therefore lighter. It's individual preference.

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

Who else has tried paddling with an adjustable feather paddle unlocked? When I
did it (Seven 2 paddle) I found 22 degrees to be my natural feather.

I normally paddle with a 218cm, unfeathered, with a pretty vertical stroke.

Brian B

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

Bill Tuthill wrote:

Brian Nystrom wrote:

Dowd (I believe it was he) wrote that only in a
direct headwind does a feathered paddle produce any advantage.

Defintely words of wisdom and absolutely correct. When you consider that
when paddling into a headwind, the paddler is in the strongest, most
stable position, the difference that a feathered paddle makes is not
that great. Also, feather angles less than 90 degrees will cause the
paddle to lift or dive in a headwind. Overall, I found feathering to be
a disadvantage.


Some people think a feathered paddle (45-60 degrees) feels more natural
during the paddle stroke, and blades are always in a nearly ideal position
for offside bracing.

If you think about it, what could be more natural than a paddle that's
perfectly symmetric? The motion is identical from one side to the other.
By definition, you MUST do something asymmetric in order to feather a
paddle. Proper feathering technique must be taught, but anyone can use
an unfeathered paddle with little or no instruction.

Feathered paddles can be shorter (due to different
technique used) and therefore lighter.

How do you figure that? There's no difference in technique that would
require a different length paddle, one way or the other. You seem to be
assuming that there's a difference in paddle placement, paddle angle,
torso rotation, etc. when there isn't.

It's individual preference.

True.

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

Michael Daly wrote:

On 14-Jun-2004, Brian Nystrom wrote:


Michael's method is very interesting and makes a lot of sense if you're
going to paddle feathered. Unfortunately, up until now I've never known
or heard of anyone who teaches that way.


It's been discussed on Paddlewise and is probably relatively new in teaching.
I don't think you'll find it in any organization's orthodox teaching method
yet.

It's the sort of thing I realized I was doing without being taught. The
idea of using my right hand to control the left blade when sculling seems
rather odd when you think about it. Ditto controlling the offside blade
with the onside hand in an offside roll. By using this mirror control
for things like rolls, it gives you a mirror approach as you suggest
without switching to an unfeathered paddle.

It makes sense to me. I wonder if a lot of people aren't doing this
without realizing it.

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

Bryan, et. al.,

A little side note is that most carpal tunnel injuries are caused by
feathered paddles, though I did not put this into my original post. The
cocking of the wrist necessary to adjust the paddle for the power hand also
causes tendons to rub against the carpal tunnel. This isn't particularly
life-threatening, but it can be quite serious. Unfeathered paddles allow you
to have a straight wrist, hence reducing the odds of injury.

Rick

Bill Tuthill wrote:

Brian Nystrom wrote:

Dowd (I believe it was he) wrote that only in a
direct headwind does a feathered paddle produce any advantage.

Defintely words of wisdom and absolutely correct. When you consider that
when paddling into a headwind, the paddler is in the strongest, most
stable position, the difference that a feathered paddle makes is not
that great. Also, feather angles less than 90 degrees will cause the
paddle to lift or dive in a headwind. Overall, I found feathering to be
a disadvantage.


Some people think a feathered paddle (45-60 degrees) feels more natural
during the paddle stroke, and blades are always in a nearly ideal
position
for offside bracing.

If you think about it, what could be more natural than a paddle that's
perfectly symmetric? The motion is identical from one side to the other.
By definition, you MUST do something asymmetric in order to feather a
paddle. Proper feathering technique must be taught, but anyone can use
an unfeathered paddle with little or no instruction.

Feathered paddles can be shorter (due to different
technique used) and therefore lighter.

How do you figure that? There's no difference in technique that would
require a different length paddle, one way or the other. You seem to be
assuming that there's a difference in paddle placement, paddle angle,
torso rotation, etc. when there isn't.

It's individual preference.

True.

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

On 15-Jun-2004, "Rick" wrote:

A little side note is that most carpal tunnel injuries are caused by
feathered paddles,

Caused by improperly feathered paddles. If the feather angle is set
to your technique, your wrist doesn't have to move significantly.
However, many paddles are designed for large feather angles.

Brian B asked how many let their variable feather paddles find their
own angle - he found 22 degrees for himself. I set mine to about
30 degrees for low stroke and 50 degrees for a high stroke. A
lot of commercial paddles have conventionally been set to 75-90
degrees, though smaller angles are now available. At 75 degrees,
you'd have to use your wrist to adjust the offside blade.

My Greenland-style paddles are unfeathered and require angle correction
with each stroke. However, due to the way they are held, that
adjustment is done with my thumb and fingers more than my wrist.

Mike

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

Brian Nystrom wrote:

Feathered paddles can be shorter (due to different technique used)
and therefore lighter.

How do you figure that? There's no difference in technique that would
require a different length paddle, one way or the other. You seem to be
assuming that there's a difference in paddle placement, paddle angle,
torso rotation, etc. when there isn't.

Hard to describe in words, without a paddle in hand.

With unfeathered blades, your two hands have a paddling motion
in two parallel circles, like cranking two old Model-T starters.

With feathered blades, your shoulders get involved in the strokes
and (with proper personal angle) the wrists and forearms stay
mostly stationary with respect to the paddle. Upper-arm movement
substitutes for a certain amount (10cm?) of paddle length.

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

On 15-Jun-2004, Bill Tuthill wrote:

With unfeathered blades, your two hands have a paddling motion
in two parallel circles, like cranking two old Model-T starters.

With feathered blades, your shoulders get involved in the strokes
and (with proper personal angle) the wrists and forearms stay
mostly stationary with respect to the paddle. Upper-arm movement
substitutes for a certain amount (10cm?) of paddle length

I don't see why you have this difference. I use the same technique
(closest to your second description) whether feathered or not.

The former technique is what I tell folks to stop doing and the latter
is what they should do.

Mike

Unfeathered Paddles aid Brace & roll learning
 

Michael Daly wrote:

On 15-Jun-2004, Bill Tuthill wrote:


With unfeathered blades, your two hands have a paddling motion
in two parallel circles, like cranking two old Model-T starters.

With feathered blades, your shoulders get involved in the strokes
and (with proper personal angle) the wrists and forearms stay
mostly stationary with respect to the paddle. Upper-arm movement
substitutes for a certain amount (10cm?) of paddle length

This is a common misconception, typically propagated by proponents of
feathered paddling. It's nonsense. There is nothing about paddling
unfeathered that forces this kind of difference in technique.

I don't see why you have this difference. I use the same technique
(closest to your second description) whether feathered or not.

The former technique is what I tell folks to stop doing and the latter
is what they should do.

Exactly. There is no difference in proper technique, whether the paddle
is feathered or not. Placement is placement. Torso rotation is torso
rotation.