Fast Sea Kayak
 

Well now that the election is over I'm starting to obsess over another
boat for the spring. It will be a fast sea kayak with medium amount of
stabilty so I can easily edge it to turn or correct course. My
candidates are the Valley Acuanaut, Eddyline Falcon 18, NDK
Greenlander Pro. Boats that I've liked for speed but were too stiff to
edge are the Caribou and the new Impex Outer Island which seems
incredibly fast but also incredibly stable. Other candidates which are
easy to edge but perhaps not as fast are the Gulfstream and Explorer.
Just like to know if there are others I should condider and what
people think of boats above that they may own and have personal
experience with. I currently own a Chatham 16 which excels in all
categories I can think of save speed. Oh yes stability alone doesn't
necessarily translate into difficulty to edge. Witness the Chatham 16
which can be easily turned with only a modicum of heel. Good thing too
because otherwise the boat has very strong stability.

Thanks,
Gene

On 7-Nov-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

My
candidates are the Valley Acuanaut, Eddyline Falcon 18, NDK
Greenlander Pro.

QCC 700, Superior Kayaks Hawk, Wilderness Systems Arctic Hawk,
Kayak Sport Artisan Millenium, Seaward Endeavour. All worth
checking out for speed.

Mike

Epic 18 and Seda Glider as well are fast boats that I think you should look at.

Another one you might add to your list is the P&H Bahiya.

The Epic 18 and Seda Glider will be too stiff for him to turn (see his
comments about the Caribou). He's not looking for a fast boat, as much
as something faster than what he is paddling but will still do a quick
lean turn.

The NorthWest boats, specifically the Pursuit and Discover have decent
speed and a good lean turn. The Epic 18, Seda Glider and CD Extreme
will all walk away from the boats you have listed, but don't turn as
fast.

I will agree the Seda Glider doesn't lean turn well, but I find the Epic 18
does.

Thanks for clarifying the original post.

B

"Michael Daly" wrote in news:78qdncJ4n-NT7RPcRVn-
:

On 7-Nov-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

My
candidates are the Valley Acuanaut, Eddyline Falcon 18, NDK
Greenlander Pro.

QCC 700, Superior Kayaks Hawk, Wilderness Systems Arctic Hawk,
Kayak Sport Artisan Millenium, Seaward Endeavour. All worth
checking out for speed.

The Endeavor in particular turns really well but is also quite fast. It
might also be worth mentioning that a Superior Kayak Hawk, if ordered today,
won't be available until 2007 (according to their web site) and cost $5700.

(Gene Cosloy) wrote in
om:

Well now that the election is over I'm starting to obsess over another
boat for the spring. It will be a fast sea kayak with medium amount of
stabilty so I can easily edge it to turn or correct course. My
candidates are the Valley Acuanaut, Eddyline Falcon 18, NDK
Greenlander Pro. Boats that I've liked for speed but were too stiff to
edge are the Caribou and the new Impex Outer Island which seems
incredibly fast but also incredibly stable.

I admit that I haven't paddled the new Impex version of the Outer Island but
I've been paddling a cedar strip version I built for a couple of years.
Yes, it has good initial stability for a 21" wide boat, but it also edges
and turns quite well for a 17'10" long boat.

Does this look like it's hard to edge?

http://caddis.mannlib.cornell.edu/pa...nd/launch7.gif

John Fereira wrote in message ...

I admit that I haven't paddled the new Impex version of the Outer Island but
I've been paddling a cedar strip version I built for a couple of years.
Yes, it has good initial stability for a 21" wide boat, but it also edges
and turns quite well for a 17'10" long boat.

Does this look like it's hard to edge?

http://caddis.mannlib.cornell.edu/pa...nd/launch7.gif

Well, no it certainly does not. On the other hand my experience with
the fiberglass version was decidedly different. I want a boat, the
stability of which allows me to place it on balance edge with J-leans
alone. some of the boats are so stiff they may require upper body
leans and strong bracing which is not for me. I want to lift my knee
and get the boat over as far as I want. I can't do that with a lot of
so called strongly stabile boats

Thanks,
Gene

On 10-Nov-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

I want a boat, the
stability of which allows me to place it on balance edge with J-leans
alone. some of the boats are so stiff they may require upper body
leans and strong bracing which is not for me. I want to lift my knee
and get the boat over as far as I want. I can't do that with a lot of
so called strongly stabile boats

While not guaranteed, in general hard chine kayaks tend to have the
characteristics you want. Round chines tend to have the secondary
kick in early and are harder to edge. Hard chines tend to roll quickly
and then hit a solid secondary.

Mike

(Gene Cosloy) wrote in
om:

John Fereira wrote in message
...

I admit that I haven't paddled the new Impex version of the Outer
Island but I've been paddling a cedar strip version I built for a
couple of years. Yes, it has good initial stability for a 21" wide
boat, but it also edges and turns quite well for a 17'10" long boat.

Does this look like it's hard to edge?

http://caddis.mannlib.cornell.edu/pa...nd/launch7.gif

Well, no it certainly does not. On the other hand my experience with
the fiberglass version was decidedly different. I want a boat, the
stability of which allows me to place it on balance edge with J-leans
alone.
That is different. I have no trouble putting the cockpit rim underwater
with just a J-lean. In the picture from the link I *am* leaning over with
the paddle in a high brace position but that is what I was trying to do at
the time.

some of the boats are so stiff they may require upper body
leans and strong bracing which is not for me. I want to lift my knee
and get the boat over as far as I want. I can't do that with a lot of
so called strongly stabile boats

I understand where you're coming from. I tried a local paddlers boat a few
years ago that he'd built that I could not get on edge unless I really
leaned over the side. The problem wasn't so much the design of the hull as
much as the height of the seat. He hadn't built the seat yet and was just
using a half inch foam pad. Since I carved a foam seat for my Outer Island
I've been able to carve enough off the bottom such that it feels like an
optimal height for stability and boat control. I would imagine that adding
a bit of padding on the seat of the Impex version would change the stability
and boat control characteristics significantly.

"Michael Daly" wrote in news:ZomdnaIIspys9w_cRVn-
:

On 10-Nov-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

I want a boat, the
stability of which allows me to place it on balance edge with J-leans
alone. some of the boats are so stiff they may require upper body
leans and strong bracing which is not for me. I want to lift my knee
and get the boat over as far as I want. I can't do that with a lot of
so called strongly stabile boats

While not guaranteed, in general hard chine kayaks tend to have the
characteristics you want. Round chines tend to have the secondary
kick in early and are harder to edge. Hard chines tend to roll quickly
and then hit a solid secondary.

I've experienced the same but it also depends how deep the V is in the hull.
In the case of, for example, an Artic Hawk the initial stability feels
"twitchy" and actually feels more comfortable if you're not trying to keep
it perfectly centered. Once you let it go from one side or the other it
feels a lot more controllable. Once you're moving though it feels plenty
stable. My CLC Northbay feels the same way.

"Michael Daly" wrote in message ...

While not guaranteed, in general hard chine kayaks tend to have the
characteristics you want. Round chines tend to have the secondary
kick in early and are harder to edge. Hard chines tend to roll quickly
and then hit a solid secondary.

Mike

My experience has been mixed with hard chined boats. The NDK
Greenlander Pro does behave as you describe, however the Caribou
seemed much stiffer. On the other hand the Valley Nordkapp which I
believe is soft chined rolls easily through the secondary and appears
to hit nothing solid.

Gene