I know it's political, EVERYTHING is political. Whether in my
bicycles--that go unused--or my kayaks--that now will go unused--I
feel at the bottom end of the food chain. Polluting SUVs and
motorboats have it all; bikers and kayakers, get the scraps--if any.
Whether we are intimidated or regulated, we face the beast. It's a
jungle out there...

Where's the law?

Things get more difficult all the time...

Beautiful day for kayaking. Perfect where I live, since I live here,
in a wild place, mostly because I can walk to the bay, barely one
block away. So I just walked my kayak there until I heard someone--the
park guard--screaming. "No kayaks here!" "Why!?" I said. "Well,
regulations," he barked back. "But is there any law?" I insisted. He
informed me that the Parks Department doesn't want any legal suit from
people hurting themselves on the rocks... According to that logic, the
medical profession would be banned because you can bring suits against
doctors... And then I asked him if he didn't do anything about a
homeless couple near us, a common sight at the park. He challenged me,
"do they bother you?" And I say they don't bother me in quickly
passing through the park, but they sure scare the average family. In
effect, most of our parks remain no man's land.

Anyway I didn't take "no" for an answer, and I had him call the
police. But, of course, lion helps lion, and I was almost swallowed.
And they say they serve the community... I asked them why they don't
take care of the homeless in the park, and they anwered back that that
was a different issue. Thinking to myself, "shouldn't the issue be a
clean, safe park?" And then I asked, "where's the law that prevents me
from launching a kayak at this park?" They clued me in there's no law,
only the law of the guard, and roared at me to get lost at once or
else... And I say, I know that law, THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE...

NOTE: I called the Parks Department later and they confirmed the
prohibition. So a member of the community trying to have fun out there
is restricted by the "law"; the homeless though got the law on their
side. Where's the law?

***

THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE

Once upon a time, in the deep jungle, lived a Lion and a Monkey... One
day the Monkey, tired of the Lion always taking the LION'S SHARE, and
seeing that such injustice represented a danger to all the species of
the jungle, demanded JUSTICE... The Lion, yawning and stretching,
said, "You would have to have paws and sharp teeth..." Then the
Monkey, who was very clever, devised a plan: He would go to the
costume store, and look like a lion...

When the Lion saw him, noticing that the new lion wasn't a match for
him, and fearing COMPETITION, killed him on the spot --before the
indifferent look of the little animals of the jungle... And that's how
the Law of the Jungle was re-established one more time...

NOTE: Other monkeys survived him...

http://committed.to/justiceforpeace

(DonQuijote1954) wrote:

Things get more difficult all the time...

Beautiful day for kayaking. Perfect where I live, since I live here,
in a wild place, mostly because I can walk to the bay, barely one
block away. So I just walked my kayak there until I heard someone--the
park guard--screaming. "No kayaks here!" "


I think this situation is the sort of thing that could be changed with a
little low-level public activism.

Very briefly, i would offer the following suggestions.

1. Find other kayakers in your area and start a club or group.
http://www.google.com and the stores who sell kayaks are
a good place to start. You probably also have some sort of
Miami Amateur Athlete monthly publication available for free
at either bookstores or sporting goods stores.

2. Learn the schedules of the county and park district boards, and
start attending their meetings. Once you've gotten a feel for the
rhythm of these meetings, arrange for time to address the boards,
for both you and your kayaking friends.

2a. Get a copy of the bylaws/ordinances for your parks.

3. Continue your correspondence with the boards.

4. Find a professional mediator/conflict resolution expert. It'll
cost you not-too-much money, and that person will be able to help
you avoid a confrontational environment.

5. Try to avoid irate letters to the newspapers.

You can probably get the park district's policy changed by april or may.

bon chance!

..max

--
the part of
was played by maxwell monningh 8-p

Max wrote:

(DonQuijote1954) wrote:


Things get more difficult all the time...

Beautiful day for kayaking. Perfect where I live, since I live here,
in a wild place, mostly because I can walk to the bay, barely one
block away. So I just walked my kayak there until I heard someone--the
park guard--screaming. "No kayaks here!" "



I think this situation is the sort of thing that could be changed with a
little low-level public activism.

Very briefly, i would offer the following suggestions.

1. Find other kayakers in your area and start a club or group.
http://www.google.com and the stores who sell kayaks are
a good place to start. You probably also have some sort of
Miami Amateur Athlete monthly publication available for free
at either bookstores or sporting goods stores.

2. Learn the schedules of the county and park district boards, and
start attending their meetings. Once you've gotten a feel for the
rhythm of these meetings, arrange for time to address the boards,
for both you and your kayaking friends.

2a. Get a copy of the bylaws/ordinances for your parks.

3. Continue your correspondence with the boards.

4. Find a professional mediator/conflict resolution expert. It'll
cost you not-too-much money, and that person will be able to help
you avoid a confrontational environment.

5. Try to avoid irate letters to the newspapers.

Good suggestions. I'd also suggest trying to find out the history of
the prohibition. Has it always been in place or was it enacted
in response to some specific incident? If it's the latter then you
may be able to suggest procedures that would avoid that type of
problem but still allow reasonable paddling access.

It would also help if there's at least one board member who would
support a change in the regulations and can help you develop the
most effective way to go about it.

On 21 Nov 2004 07:40:13 -0800, (DonQuijote1954)
wrote:

I know it's political, EVERYTHING is political. Whether in my
bicycles--that go unused--or my kayaks--that now will go unused--I
feel at the bottom end of the food chain. Polluting SUVs and
motorboats have it all; bikers and kayakers, get the scraps--if any.
Whether we are intimidated or regulated, we face the beast. It's a
jungle out there...

Where's the law?

Things get more difficult all the time...

Beautiful day for kayaking. Perfect where I live, since I live here,
in a wild place, mostly because I can walk to the bay, barely one
block away. So I just walked my kayak there until I heard someone--the
park guard--screaming. "No kayaks here!" "Why!?" I said. "Well,
regulations," he barked back. "But is there any law?" I insisted. He
informed me that the Parks Department doesn't want any legal suit from
people hurting themselves on the rocks... According to that logic, the
medical profession would be banned because you can bring suits against
doctors... And then I asked him if he didn't do anything about a
homeless couple near us, a common sight at the park. He challenged me,
"do they bother you?" And I say they don't bother me in quickly
passing through the park, but they sure scare the average family. In
effect, most of our parks remain no man's land.

Anyway I didn't take "no" for an answer, and I had him call the
police. But, of course, lion helps lion, and I was almost swallowed.
And they say they serve the community... I asked them why they don't
take care of the homeless in the park, and they anwered back that that
was a different issue. Thinking to myself, "shouldn't the issue be a
clean, safe park?" And then I asked, "where's the law that prevents me
from launching a kayak at this park?" They clued me in there's no law,
only the law of the guard, and roared at me to get lost at once or
else... And I say, I know that law, THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE...

NOTE: I called the Parks Department later and they confirmed the
prohibition. So a member of the community trying to have fun out there
is restricted by the "law"; the homeless though got the law on their
side. Where's the law?

***

THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE

Once upon a time, in the deep jungle, lived a Lion and a Monkey... One
day the Monkey, tired of the Lion always taking the LION'S SHARE, and
seeing that such injustice represented a danger to all the species of
the jungle, demanded JUSTICE... The Lion, yawning and stretching,
said, "You would have to have paws and sharp teeth..." Then the
Monkey, who was very clever, devised a plan: He would go to the
costume store, and look like a lion...

When the Lion saw him, noticing that the new lion wasn't a match for
him, and fearing COMPETITION, killed him on the spot --before the
indifferent look of the little animals of the jungle... And that's how
the Law of the Jungle was re-established one more time...

NOTE: Other monkeys survived him...

http://committed.to/justiceforpeace

Dude, it's a stupid park with a stupid rule. Get some perspective and start
lobbying. Call your state legislator he lives close. Try to sound unstoned and
persuasive.

Ron

Ronsonic wrote in message . ..

Dude, it's a stupid park with a stupid rule. Get some perspective and start
lobbying. Call your state legislator he lives close. Try to sound unstoned and
persuasive.

Ron

Thanks all.

Or else move. I got no patience to deal with the foxes...

It's ironic that whether bicycling or kayaking you ALWAYS find
yourself at the wrong end of the food chain for doing WHAT'S RIGHT. I
grew political out of necessity and now only hope a revolution of some
sort will come from the sky. Hallelujah!!!


"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most
intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
-Charles Darwin

EVOLVE OR ELSE!

Once upon a time lived a race of dinosaurs whose violence and appetite
alarmed everybody... One day a Little Ant, tired of feeling stepped
upon, and worried about her cooperative enterprise, came up to the
Americanus Raptor--the biggest dinosaur of them all--and asked: "Why
you eat and eat everything in your path? Why don't you slim down? Why
can't we little animals at least have our own way?" Then the dinosaur,
blowing the Little Ant away, shouted: "Bigger is better, so get lost!"

The Little Ant, then, gathered the whole cooperative and said:
"Comrades, our world is being threatened by the dinosaurs, so..." And
at that precise moment the Earth was hit by a big ball of fire,
destroying all but the small animals...

DonQuijote1954 wrote:
I know it's political, EVERYTHING is political. Whether in my
bicycles--that go unused--or my kayaks--that now will go unused--I
feel at the bottom end of the food chain. Polluting SUVs and
motorboats have it all; bikers and kayakers, get the scraps--if any.
Whether we are intimidated or regulated, we face the beast. It's a
jungle out there...

And what would you like done with the homeless? Have them scooped up and
dispatched to some burnt out industrial district so they can't make the
yuppies nervous when they go for strolls in the park?

"Jacobe Hazzard" wrote in message
...
DonQuijote1954 wrote:
I know it's political, EVERYTHING is political. Whether in my
bicycles--that go unused--or my kayaks--that now will go unused--I
feel at the bottom end of the food chain. Polluting SUVs and
motorboats have it all; bikers and kayakers, get the scraps--if any.
Whether we are intimidated or regulated, we face the beast. It's a
jungle out there...

And what would you like done with the homeless? Have them scooped up and
dispatched to some burnt out industrial district so they can't make the
yuppies nervous when they go for strolls in the park?


Two words:

HOMELESS SHELTER

Felsenmeer wrote:
And what would you like done with the homeless? Have them scooped up
and dispatched to some burnt out industrial district so they can't
make the yuppies nervous when they go for strolls in the park?


Two words:

HOMELESS SHELTER

OK so we lock them away in 'shelters' from which they are not free to
leave. That's f***ing brilliant.

My point was the OPs apparent hypocrisy in being outraged about kayaking
being banned as 'potentially dangerous' and in the same breath condemning
the homeless as 'potentially threatening'. The fact is, a park is a much
nicer place to be than a homeless shelter. Have you ever seen the inside
of one? My reading of his arguments (which really needn't have involved
the homeless at all, as they were irrelevant to his kayaking problem) was
a sort of juvenille, "If I can't play here then why should they?"

How can he demand respect for people who go without motor vehicles, for
whatever personal reasons they have, if he's completely unable to respect
people who go without homes for their own personal reasons? It's easy to
see how the most common complaints one might have about the homeless (IE
they're dirt poor, are probably crazy and are homeless because they can't
manage a real lifestyle, they're an inconvenience and a hazard to the rest
of us) could easily be applied to a cyclist by a motorist. And if we can
say nothing else for homelessness, we can be sure it has less
environmental impact than owning a home, even a home with no SUVs.

And what would you like done with the homeless? Have them scooped up
and dispatched to some burnt out industrial district so they can't
make the yuppies nervous when they go for strolls in the park?


Two words:

HOMELESS SHELTER

OK so we lock them away in 'shelters' from which they are not free to
leave. That's f***ing brilliant.


I have yet to see a homeless shelter in which the homeless are "locked away"
and are "not free to leave." Do these exist in your country? They don't in
mine.

My point was the OPs apparent hypocrisy in being outraged about kayaking
being banned as 'potentially dangerous' and in the same breath condemning
the homeless as 'potentially threatening'. The fact is, a park is a much
nicer place to be than a homeless shelter. Have you ever seen the inside
of one? My reading of his arguments (which really needn't have involved
the homeless at all, as they were irrelevant to his kayaking problem) was
a sort of juvenille, "If I can't play here then why should they?"


The public in general *does* feel uncomfortable with homeless people,
warranted or not. A park may be a much nicer place than a shelter to a
homeless person, but a park is *not* a nicer place for the public when it
becomes a collecting point for the homeless. You obviously have some sort
of thing for the homeless, and that's good. But I think if you're going to
intellectually honest, you're going to have to realize that the public at
large in general does not approve of having their parks turned into
impromptu homeless shelters.

So... you've missed the point. People typically feel somewhat threatened by
the homeless, yet they have free rein of the place. People do *not*
typically feel threatened by sea kayakers, yet they're prohibited. This
makes no sense. It's not an issue of "play."

It's easy to
see how the most common complaints one might have about the homeless (IE
they're dirt poor, are probably crazy and are homeless because they can't
manage a real lifestyle, they're an inconvenience and a hazard to the rest
of us) could easily be applied to a cyclist by a motorist.

Huh? That's silly hyperbole. Unless, of course, you truly believe that
bicyclists are dirt poor, crazy, and can't manage a real lifestyle.

And if we can
say nothing else for homelessness, we can be sure it has less
environmental impact than owning a home, even a home with no SUVs.

What does this have to do with the whole thing? Within the context of this
thread, where does the environmental impact of homelessness come into play?

On 22 Nov 2004 07:00:27 -0800, (DonQuijote1954)
wrote:

Ronsonic wrote in message . ..

Dude, it's a stupid park with a stupid rule. Get some perspective and start
lobbying. Call your state legislator he lives close. Try to sound unstoned and
persuasive.

Ron

Thanks all.

Or else move. I got no patience to deal with the foxes...

It's ironic that whether bicycling or kayaking you ALWAYS find
yourself at the wrong end of the food chain for doing WHAT'S RIGHT. I
grew political out of necessity and now only hope a revolution of some
sort will come from the sky. Hallelujah!!!


"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most
intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
-Charles Darwin

EVOLVE OR ELSE!

Once upon a time lived a race of dinosaurs whose violence and appetite
alarmed everybody... One day a Little Ant, tired of feeling stepped
upon, and worried about her cooperative enterprise, came up to the
Americanus Raptor--the biggest dinosaur of them all--and asked: "Why
you eat and eat everything in your path? Why don't you slim down? Why
can't we little animals at least have our own way?" Then the dinosaur,
blowing the Little Ant away, shouted: "Bigger is better, so get lost!"

The Little Ant, then, gathered the whole cooperative and said:
"Comrades, our world is being threatened by the dinosaurs, so..." And
at that precise moment the Earth was hit by a big ball of fire,
destroying all but the small animals...

A stroke of tremendous good fortune for such creatures that it would be foolish
to count on.

Rather than sit around hoping conditions change:

A - change them yourself.

B - change yourself to suit them.

I recommend "A" but your mileage may vary. Either is more productive than
waiting for a meteor to hit.

Ron