No Spam wrote:
Big snip---

Hey Tom, have you seen the Yost boats in person? I found his web site
very
intriguing. I have been wanting to do a stitch and glue from One
Ocean but
have not started yet and the idea of a boat that I could easily take
on a
family vacation has me thinking about trying that one first. I just
would
like to have an opinion from someone that has eyeballed or better yet
paddled one of these boats. If I remember correctly you have a
folding boat
from one of the manufacturers right? Do you find that it is capable
of
taking the abuse of hitting bottom now and again? Do you use float
bags or a
sea sock?

Ken

I'm in favor of that darkside metamorphosis, Yost being a neighbor
of
mine here in Denver, and him making some dandy boats. Though I
don't
know whether riverman is inclined to the hobby craftsmen aspect of
building your own, besides having the time between now and going
to, is
it HK. TnT


I have corresponded with him, about getting together, but have yet to
do so. He is real approachable and glad to talk boats. He was going to
take a look at my older 1973 Folbot Super which is a double. I got it
used, and though the PVC hull is waterproof, there are a few thin spots
where it got pinched against the frame. Yost has alot of experience
working with the PVC, since that is what he uses on his boats. He does
so because it is cheaper to manufacture, and maintain yourself, once
you get the hang of it. Which by the time you get done building one of
his, you should have no problem.

Most of the Bagboaters put sacrificial strips on the hull along the
longerons to take the abuse. I recently found some special PVC tape
that I am going to try using. It comes with some very sticky waterproof
adhesive, is UV resistant, and is solid 10 mil thick. Most packing tape
is 1 or 2 mil, so gives you an idea, and there is not cloth backing
like duct tape. Some of the guys have used the duct tape which is good
for about a season, and then you replace it.

Most of the newer boats use a Hypalon hull which is probably tougher,
but is also a little more involved to work on. Most of the guys seem to
be really happy with it, and say it should last 30-40 years.

You do want to use lots of flotation, since there are no bulkheads and
hatches. However my Super is 17.5 ft, and can handle 700 lbs. Some
folks consider it more of a decked canoe, though there are spray skirts
that you can put on it. There is a lot of Tumble down, with a 36" beam,
makes for a very stable boat, and not likely to roll. Some use the
seasock, but mostly just to keep spray out, and that is in heavy seas.

Some of the newer Folbots, are comparable to Hard shell, and the
Feathercraft I've heard, actually will out perform some of the high end
sea kayaks. I don't know that any of the folders are recommended for
anything over class 2 WW. But it is not the hull that determines the
limit, as much as the frame. However some of the newer frames would
appear to be almost unbreakable, such as Yost with the HDP, and heavy
aluminum tubes. The structural strength may be more than a poly boat,
and then it gets back to penetration issues and they are getting the
hull to be almost ballistic. Well maybe not ballistic, but then hard
shell aren't either.

There is a Yahoo group for Bagboaters where they talk about all this
stuff. They tend to be orientated to trying all kinds of modifications
since the platform is very flexible and frindly to us Tinkers! TnT

Gary S. wrote:
On 12 Mar 2005 12:00:12 -0800, "Tinkerntom" wrote:

But then it could be like in the movie Quincy, where at the end
after
the gunfight, Quicy says, "I didn't say I didn't know how to use
one,
it's just not my preference!"

Off topic somewhat, but I think you may mean the movie "Quigley Down
Under" starring Tom Selleck.

The line was:
"I said I never had no use for one. Never said I didn't know how to
use it."

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

You got it! My ahlzimers been bad to day! :-) TnT

Following up to both posts.

"Tinkerntom" wrote in news:1110685668.227862.222450
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


No Spam wrote:
Big snip---

Hey Tom, have you seen the Yost boats in person? I found his web site
very intriguing. I have been wanting to do a stitch and glue from One
Ocean but have not started yet and the idea of a boat that I could
easily take on a family vacation has me thinking about trying that one
first. I just would like to have an opinion from someone that has
eyeballed or better yet paddled one of these boats. If I remember
correctly you have a folding boat from one of the manufacturers right?

Someone local built one (I think it was the Sea Rover) and I even got the
chance to paddle it a bit (while he paddled my cedar strip Outer Island). I
liked how it paddled but he wasn't quite finished with it. He hadn't built
the wood floor yet so the hull flexed much more than it should have. As a
result, the hull would flex when making a tight low brace or bow rudder turn
and make the boat spin on a dime. However, when trying to roll it, the boat
would flex when I hip-snapped the middle of the boat would lift. I had to
really slow down the roll or perform a layback, and without the wood floor
it was a bit uncomfortable laying back against the cockpit combing. It also
had a couple of leaks that the builder hadn't fixed yet so it got real
slugish after a few deep edged turns.

Do you find that it is capable of taking the abuse of hitting bottom
now and again? Do you use float bags or a sea sock?

I would probably go with float bags although finding some that would fit
such a low volume boat (or a sea sock for that matter) might be difficult.
They could probably be made though.


Ken

I'm in favor of that darkside metamorphosis, Yost being a neighbor
of mine here in Denver, and him making some dandy boats. Though I
don't know whether riverman is inclined to the hobby craftsmen
aspect of building your own, besides having the time between now and
going to, is it HK. TnT


I have corresponded with him, about getting together, but have yet to
do so. He is real approachable and glad to talk boats.

I also corresponded wth Tom a bit and he assured me that the problems I had
with the boat I paddled were due to the construction, not the design. I may
have to build one to find out how it's *supposed* to paddle.



Most of the Bagboaters put sacrificial strips on the hull along the
longerons to take the abuse. I recently found some special PVC tape
that I am going to try using. It comes with some very sticky waterproof
adhesive, is UV resistant, and is solid 10 mil thick. Most packing tape
is 1 or 2 mil, so gives you an idea, and there is not cloth backing
like duct tape.

You got a source for that tape? If I build one I might want to use some as
well.

Some of the guys have used the duct tape which is good
for about a season, and then you replace it.

Most of the newer boats use a Hypalon hull which is probably tougher,
but is also a little more involved to work on. Most of the guys seem to
be really happy with it, and say it should last 30-40 years.

I've seen a few original Folbots that were 30 years old.

Some of the newer Folbots, are comparable to Hard shell, and the
Feathercraft I've heard, actually will out perform some of the high end
sea kayaks.

I paddled a Feathercraft Khastlano about 5 years ago and liked it quite a
bit though I don't know about it out performing a hardshell. Some claim
that the flex in the hull makes it more seaworthy in rough seas than a
hardshell. The Khastlano is also something like $4,000.


There is a Yahoo group for Bagboaters where they talk about all this
stuff. They tend to be orientated to trying all kinds of modifications
since the platform is very flexible and frindly to us Tinkers! TnT

Ralph Diaz frequently posts to the Paddlewise mailing list as well as
another Ralph from somewhere in Europe that promotes the Pouch Boats.

John Fereira wrote:
Following up to both posts.

"Tinkerntom" wrote in
news:1110685668.227862.222450
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


No Spam wrote:
Big snip---

Hey Tom, have you seen the Yost boats in person? I found his web
site
very intriguing. I have been wanting to do a stitch and glue from
One
Ocean but have not started yet and the idea of a boat that I could
easily take on a family vacation has me thinking about trying that
one
first. I just would like to have an opinion from someone that has
eyeballed or better yet paddled one of these boats. If I remember
correctly you have a folding boat from one of the manufacturers
right?

Someone local built one (I think it was the Sea Rover) and I even got
the
chance to paddle it a bit (while he paddled my cedar strip Outer
Island). I
liked how it paddled but he wasn't quite finished with it. He hadn't
built
the wood floor yet so the hull flexed much more than it should have.
As a
result, the hull would flex when making a tight low brace or bow
rudder turn
and make the boat spin on a dime. However, when trying to roll it,
the boat
would flex when I hip-snapped the middle of the boat would lift. I
had to
really slow down the roll or perform a layback, and without the wood
floor
it was a bit uncomfortable laying back against the cockpit combing.
It also
had a couple of leaks that the builder hadn't fixed yet so it got
real
slugish after a few deep edged turns.

I do not plan on rolling my Super, though some double mens team have
demonstrated rollong the newer Greenland II. They had to really work
hard to get it to go over, and with the spray skirts kept most of the
water out. Then what we do is have a bilge pump (Manual and Electric)
to pump out the water that may get in. This is good also if you have a
slow leak. Yost boast are much smaller volume I believe, and tighter
combing, so I don't think he worries so much about bilge water.

Ralph Diaz, admits that he is terrible at rolling, having never had to
learn until recently. Then he used a hard shell, and still does not
expect to roll SOF. The northern native cultures obyiously have
learned, and taught the Euro hard shell crowd the "eskimoe roll", but
in RL, rolling is a survival technique since most of them do not know
how to swim from what I have read, and wet exits are not an alternative
in the extremely cold Arctic water. They design their boats to stay
upright, and not as roll toys! Though they excel in boat handling and
this includes 30 some different types of rolls.

The flex is something that bagboaters learn to expect, and actually
desire as it gives you a better feel for the water. In heavy seas, the
boat does not fight the water so much as a hard shell, and especially
under these conditions, can out perform hard shell. I have read
accounts of a mix of boats paddling together, and when the seas get
higher, the bagboat will pull away from the hard shells to the surprise
of the hard shell crowd, and the delight of the bagboater!



Do you find that it is capable of taking the abuse of hitting
bottom
now and again? Do you use float bags or a sea sock?

I would probably go with float bags although finding some that would
fit
such a low volume boat (or a sea sock for that matter) might be
difficult.
They could probably be made though.

I have probably 10 different flotation bags, plus all gear is in sealed
dry bags, and all are strapped in for load stability; flotation at the
top of the load. Most don't use sea socks, since if you get water in
sock, you have to get out of it to dump, unless you pump. They also
restrict movement within cockpit.


Ken

I'm in favor of that darkside metamorphosis, Yost being a
neighbor
of mine here in Denver, and him making some dandy boats. Though
I
don't know whether riverman is inclined to the hobby craftsmen
aspect of building your own, besides having the time between now
and
going to, is it HK. TnT


I have corresponded with him, about getting together, but have yet
to
do so. He is real approachable and glad to talk boats.

I also corresponded wth Tom a bit and he assured me that the problems
I had
with the boat I paddled were due to the construction, not the design.
I may
have to build one to find out how it's *supposed* to paddle.



Most of the Bagboaters put sacrificial strips on the hull along the
longerons to take the abuse. I recently found some special PVC tape
that I am going to try using. It comes with some very sticky
waterproof
adhesive, is UV resistant, and is solid 10 mil thick. Most packing
tape
is 1 or 2 mil, so gives you an idea, and there is not cloth backing
like duct tape.

You got a source for that tape? If I build one I might want to use
some as
well.

The tape is pipe wrapping tape, and should be available from plumbing
supply. It is used for wraping underground pipes. I found mine on Ebay,
at Toolprice.com.

Some of the guys have used the duct tape which is good
for about a season, and then you replace it.

Most of the newer boats use a Hypalon hull which is probably
tougher,
but is also a little more involved to work on. Most of the guys
seem to
be really happy with it, and say it should last 30-40 years.

I've seen a few original Folbots that were 30 years old.

Some of the newer Folbots, are comparable to Hard shell, and the
Feathercraft I've heard, actually will out perform some of the high
end
sea kayaks.

I paddled a Feathercraft Khastlano about 5 years ago and liked it
quite a
bit though I don't know about it out performing a hardshell. Some
claim
that the flex in the hull makes it more seaworthy in rough seas than
a
hardshell. The Khastlano is also something like $4,000.


There is a Yahoo group for Bagboaters where they talk about all
this
stuff. They tend to be orientated to trying all kinds of
modifications
since the platform is very flexible and frindly to us Tinkers! TnT

Ralph Diaz frequently posts to the Paddlewise mailing list as well as

another Ralph from somewhere in Europe that promotes the Pouch Boats.

R. Diaz is not as active posting as he use to be, but there are lots of
his articles available on line, and in bookstores. His material is
considered the Reference for bagboaters. TnT

Thanks all for your posts. I'm doing some reading now and will be sure to
post when I have started building - something. I am finding it hard to
decide against the beauty of the One Ocean boat but the pure utility of a
folder has a very strong pull. What a great problem to have - many wonderful
designs to choose from!

Ken

"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

John Fereira wrote:
Following up to both posts.

"Tinkerntom" wrote in
news:1110685668.227862.222450
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


No Spam wrote:
Big snip---

Hey Tom, have you seen the Yost boats in person? I found his web
site
very intriguing. I have been wanting to do a stitch and glue from
One
Ocean but have not started yet and the idea of a boat that I could
easily take on a family vacation has me thinking about trying that
one
first. I just would like to have an opinion from someone that has
eyeballed or better yet paddled one of these boats. If I remember
correctly you have a folding boat from one of the manufacturers
right?

Someone local built one (I think it was the Sea Rover) and I even got
the
chance to paddle it a bit (while he paddled my cedar strip Outer
Island). I
liked how it paddled but he wasn't quite finished with it. He hadn't
built
the wood floor yet so the hull flexed much more than it should have.
As a
result, the hull would flex when making a tight low brace or bow
rudder turn
and make the boat spin on a dime. However, when trying to roll it,
the boat
would flex when I hip-snapped the middle of the boat would lift. I
had to
really slow down the roll or perform a layback, and without the wood
floor
it was a bit uncomfortable laying back against the cockpit combing.
It also
had a couple of leaks that the builder hadn't fixed yet so it got
real
slugish after a few deep edged turns.

I do not plan on rolling my Super, though some double mens team have
demonstrated rollong the newer Greenland II. They had to really work
hard to get it to go over, and with the spray skirts kept most of the
water out. Then what we do is have a bilge pump (Manual and Electric)
to pump out the water that may get in. This is good also if you have a
slow leak. Yost boast are much smaller volume I believe, and tighter
combing, so I don't think he worries so much about bilge water.

Ralph Diaz, admits that he is terrible at rolling, having never had to
learn until recently. Then he used a hard shell, and still does not
expect to roll SOF. The northern native cultures obyiously have
learned, and taught the Euro hard shell crowd the "eskimoe roll", but
in RL, rolling is a survival technique since most of them do not know
how to swim from what I have read, and wet exits are not an alternative
in the extremely cold Arctic water. They design their boats to stay
upright, and not as roll toys! Though they excel in boat handling and
this includes 30 some different types of rolls.

The flex is something that bagboaters learn to expect, and actually
desire as it gives you a better feel for the water. In heavy seas, the
boat does not fight the water so much as a hard shell, and especially
under these conditions, can out perform hard shell. I have read
accounts of a mix of boats paddling together, and when the seas get
higher, the bagboat will pull away from the hard shells to the surprise
of the hard shell crowd, and the delight of the bagboater!



Do you find that it is capable of taking the abuse of hitting
bottom
now and again? Do you use float bags or a sea sock?

I would probably go with float bags although finding some that would
fit
such a low volume boat (or a sea sock for that matter) might be
difficult.
They could probably be made though.

I have probably 10 different flotation bags, plus all gear is in sealed
dry bags, and all are strapped in for load stability; flotation at the
top of the load. Most don't use sea socks, since if you get water in
sock, you have to get out of it to dump, unless you pump. They also
restrict movement within cockpit.


Ken

I'm in favor of that darkside metamorphosis, Yost being a
neighbor
of mine here in Denver, and him making some dandy boats. Though
I
don't know whether riverman is inclined to the hobby craftsmen
aspect of building your own, besides having the time between now
and
going to, is it HK. TnT


I have corresponded with him, about getting together, but have yet
to
do so. He is real approachable and glad to talk boats.

I also corresponded wth Tom a bit and he assured me that the problems
I had
with the boat I paddled were due to the construction, not the design.
I may
have to build one to find out how it's *supposed* to paddle.



Most of the Bagboaters put sacrificial strips on the hull along the
longerons to take the abuse. I recently found some special PVC tape
that I am going to try using. It comes with some very sticky
waterproof
adhesive, is UV resistant, and is solid 10 mil thick. Most packing
tape
is 1 or 2 mil, so gives you an idea, and there is not cloth backing
like duct tape.

You got a source for that tape? If I build one I might want to use
some as
well.

The tape is pipe wrapping tape, and should be available from plumbing
supply. It is used for wraping underground pipes. I found mine on Ebay,
at Toolprice.com.

Some of the guys have used the duct tape which is good
for about a season, and then you replace it.

Most of the newer boats use a Hypalon hull which is probably
tougher,
but is also a little more involved to work on. Most of the guys
seem to
be really happy with it, and say it should last 30-40 years.

I've seen a few original Folbots that were 30 years old.

Some of the newer Folbots, are comparable to Hard shell, and the
Feathercraft I've heard, actually will out perform some of the high
end
sea kayaks.

I paddled a Feathercraft Khastlano about 5 years ago and liked it
quite a
bit though I don't know about it out performing a hardshell. Some
claim
that the flex in the hull makes it more seaworthy in rough seas than
a
hardshell. The Khastlano is also something like $4,000.


There is a Yahoo group for Bagboaters where they talk about all
this
stuff. They tend to be orientated to trying all kinds of
modifications
since the platform is very flexible and frindly to us Tinkers! TnT

Ralph Diaz frequently posts to the Paddlewise mailing list as well as

another Ralph from somewhere in Europe that promotes the Pouch Boats.

R. Diaz is not as active posting as he use to be, but there are lots of
his articles available on line, and in bookstores. His material is
considered the Reference for bagboaters. TnT

No Spam wrote:
Thanks all for your posts. I'm doing some reading now and will be
sure to
post when I have started building - something. I am finding it hard
to
decide against the beauty of the One Ocean boat but the pure utility
of a
folder has a very strong pull. What a great problem to have - many
wonderful
designs to choose from!

Ken

"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

John Fereira wrote:
Following up to both posts.

"Tinkerntom" wrote in
news:1110685668.227862.222450
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


No Spam wrote:
Big snip---

Hey Tom, have you seen the Yost boats in person? I found his
web
site
very intriguing. I have been wanting to do a stitch and glue
from
One
Ocean but have not started yet and the idea of a boat that I
could
easily take on a family vacation has me thinking about trying
that
one
first. I just would like to have an opinion from someone that
has
eyeballed or better yet paddled one of these boats. If I
remember
correctly you have a folding boat from one of the
manufacturers
right?

Someone local built one (I think it was the Sea Rover) and I even
got
the
chance to paddle it a bit (while he paddled my cedar strip Outer
Island). I
liked how it paddled but he wasn't quite finished with it. He
hadn't
built
the wood floor yet so the hull flexed much more than it should
have.
As a
result, the hull would flex when making a tight low brace or bow
rudder turn
and make the boat spin on a dime. However, when trying to roll
it,
the boat
would flex when I hip-snapped the middle of the boat would lift.
I
had to
really slow down the roll or perform a layback, and without the
wood
floor
it was a bit uncomfortable laying back against the cockpit
combing.
It also
had a couple of leaks that the builder hadn't fixed yet so it got
real
slugish after a few deep edged turns.

I do not plan on rolling my Super, though some double mens team
have
demonstrated rollong the newer Greenland II. They had to really
work
hard to get it to go over, and with the spray skirts kept most of
the
water out. Then what we do is have a bilge pump (Manual and
Electric)
to pump out the water that may get in. This is good also if you
have a
slow leak. Yost boast are much smaller volume I believe, and
tighter
combing, so I don't think he worries so much about bilge water.

Ralph Diaz, admits that he is terrible at rolling, having never had
to
learn until recently. Then he used a hard shell, and still does not
expect to roll SOF. The northern native cultures obyiously have
learned, and taught the Euro hard shell crowd the "eskimoe roll",
but
in RL, rolling is a survival technique since most of them do not
know
how to swim from what I have read, and wet exits are not an
alternative
in the extremely cold Arctic water. They design their boats to stay
upright, and not as roll toys! Though they excel in boat handling
and
this includes 30 some different types of rolls.

The flex is something that bagboaters learn to expect, and actually
desire as it gives you a better feel for the water. In heavy seas,
the
boat does not fight the water so much as a hard shell, and
especially
under these conditions, can out perform hard shell. I have read
accounts of a mix of boats paddling together, and when the seas get
higher, the bagboat will pull away from the hard shells to the
surprise
of the hard shell crowd, and the delight of the bagboater!



Do you find that it is capable of taking the abuse of hitting
bottom
now and again? Do you use float bags or a sea sock?

I would probably go with float bags although finding some that
would
fit
such a low volume boat (or a sea sock for that matter) might be
difficult.
They could probably be made though.

I have probably 10 different flotation bags, plus all gear is in
sealed
dry bags, and all are strapped in for load stability; flotation at
the
top of the load. Most don't use sea socks, since if you get water
in
sock, you have to get out of it to dump, unless you pump. They also
restrict movement within cockpit.


Ken

I'm in favor of that darkside metamorphosis, Yost being a
neighbor
of mine here in Denver, and him making some dandy boats.
Though
I
don't know whether riverman is inclined to the hobby
craftsmen
aspect of building your own, besides having the time between
now
and
going to, is it HK. TnT


I have corresponded with him, about getting together, but have
yet
to
do so. He is real approachable and glad to talk boats.

I also corresponded wth Tom a bit and he assured me that the
problems
I had
with the boat I paddled were due to the construction, not the
design.
I may
have to build one to find out how it's *supposed* to paddle.



Most of the Bagboaters put sacrificial strips on the hull along
the
longerons to take the abuse. I recently found some special PVC
tape
that I am going to try using. It comes with some very sticky
waterproof
adhesive, is UV resistant, and is solid 10 mil thick. Most
packing
tape
is 1 or 2 mil, so gives you an idea, and there is not cloth
backing
like duct tape.

You got a source for that tape? If I build one I might want to
use
some as
well.

The tape is pipe wrapping tape, and should be available from
plumbing
supply. It is used for wraping underground pipes. I found mine on
Ebay,
at Toolprice.com.

Some of the guys have used the duct tape which is good
for about a season, and then you replace it.

Most of the newer boats use a Hypalon hull which is probably
tougher,
but is also a little more involved to work on. Most of the guys
seem to
be really happy with it, and say it should last 30-40 years.

I've seen a few original Folbots that were 30 years old.

Some of the newer Folbots, are comparable to Hard shell, and
the
Feathercraft I've heard, actually will out perform some of the
high
end
sea kayaks.

I paddled a Feathercraft Khastlano about 5 years ago and liked it
quite a
bit though I don't know about it out performing a hardshell.
Some
claim
that the flex in the hull makes it more seaworthy in rough seas
than
a
hardshell. The Khastlano is also something like $4,000.


There is a Yahoo group for Bagboaters where they talk about all
this
stuff. They tend to be orientated to trying all kinds of
modifications
since the platform is very flexible and frindly to us Tinkers!
TnT

Ralph Diaz frequently posts to the Paddlewise mailing list as
well as

another Ralph from somewhere in Europe that promotes the Pouch
Boats.

R. Diaz is not as active posting as he use to be, but there are
lots of
his articles available on line, and in bookstores. His material is
considered the Reference for bagboaters. TnT


One thing that appeals to me about Yost Boats, is the cost; time and
money! He claims that once set up, he builds one in less than 2 weeks.
That compared to building anything else is amazing. The cost is also
kept under $400 US.

The SOF is typically made for your specific biometrics, in the
tradition of the native Arctic Americans. I don't know that the first
one you would want to vary to much from standard design, but for the
cost, you could build a number of boats, till you get it right. Then
you would literally wear it, with out a lot of cockpit padding, and it
would become an extension of your self, and your design requirements.

I know, I have feasted my eyes on his website, for many hours, and just
the idea of building a SOF, gets under skin so to speak. TnT

Out of country til 2 April.

Got a better way to talk? e-mail to nospam useless.
"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Charles d'Autremont" wrote in message
news
New 16 foot folding canoe (used once for 1 hour). Portage yolk. Knee
pads.

These boats were formerly sold under the Mad River brand name.

To see boat go to www.pakboats.com

$200 off new price of $1695 and I'll throw in the kneepads for free.

Portage yoke is $55.

Boat is in Tucson, Arizona at the moment.

I'll split the shipping.


Charles; I might be interested. I'm out of the US, but do some online
research and find out what shipping to Bath, Maine costs, post it here,
and I'll get back to you.

--riverman

PS: although its only been used for an hour, I would want to see some
detailed pics, if thats okay.

Richard Ferguson wrote:
I know one guy who owns a smaller one, and he reports two issues: 1.

Compared to Royalex, the Packboats are not as slippery, so sometime
stick on rocks as opposed to sliding over therm. 2. He says that
assembling it is very time consuming, although he did not report a
specific assembly time. I think he might be talking over half an
hour
assembly time, so he tends to leave it assembled, even if he is
driving
1000 miles. I think that he likes the boat overall. He bought it
with
Canadian fly-in trips in mind.

I have never paddled a Pacboat, but I would like to have one. I
don't
have the money at this instant, however, nor do I have a fly-in trip
scheduled, where it would make especially good sense. A folding boat

can really simplify trip logistics, easy to take on public
transporation
or small planes.

I own 3 Pakboats and assembly is about 20 minutes for the canoe (16').
They don't paddle like a hardshell boat though--it's more like a canoe-
shaped raft. Not that that's a bad thing. I prefer it in whitewater.
You get
a much drier ride and it's much safer in rough open water.

I prefer them to hardshells, not to mention the float plane transport
capabilities.

You talking to me? Yes, email to nospam IS useless...thats the idea. My
email is not hard to find with google, but just in case, its my name
(myronbuck) and its a yahoo account. That ought to fool the spambots,
but give it to you.

--riverman