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#1
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borrowers and lenders
I borrowed a friend's canoe for an eight day canoe trip (Bowron Lakes, BC --
it was great). Upon returning we discovered a nickel-sized crack/hole on one end (above water line). I told the guy beforehand and I mean it that I would accept responsibility for any damage. We both know a guy who does fiberglass work who says he can fix it up just fine. However, the owner of the canoe wants to return it to the manufacturer (less than an hour away) and get it professionally done, sanded, painted, rebuffed, etc., to the tune of $220 or so. The canoe is at least ten years old, and is in good shape but hardly pristine. He got it for free. I'm having a hard time reconciling to covering such an expensive repair on an older canoe in this situation. What's the right thing to do here? He did offer to sell it before we even left for $800 Canadian. It's a 16' fiberglass Clipper Ranger. I haven't done the work yet to see if that's a good price, but it seems on the high side. New ones can be had for $1180 (CAD). What do people think? JF |
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#2
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Jim Flom wrote: I borrowed a friend's canoe for an eight day canoe trip (Bowron Lakes, BC -- it was great). Upon returning we discovered a nickel-sized crack/hole on one end (above water line). I told the guy beforehand and I mean it that I would accept responsibility for any damage. We both know a guy who does fiberglass work who says he can fix it up just fine. However, the owner of the canoe wants to return it to the manufacturer (less than an hour away) and get it professionally done, sanded, painted, rebuffed, etc., to the tune of $220 or so. The canoe is at least ten years old, and is in good shape but hardly pristine. He got it for free. I'm having a hard time reconciling to covering such an expensive repair on an older canoe in this situation. What's the right thing to do here? He did offer to sell it before we even left for $800 Canadian. It's a 16' fiberglass Clipper Ranger. I haven't done the work yet to see if that's a good price, but it seems on the high side. New ones can be had for $1180 (CAD). What do people think? JF This is what makes borrowing from friends so difficult. Money often changes the dynamic between people. So does busted property. One approach is to ask what is the value of the friendship. But that ignores that fact that structure of the friendship got modified. You will feel you are being taken advantage of if you go for the factory repair. He will feel he is being asked to make an unwarranted sacrifice if he has to settle for anything less. After all, the canoe was whole before you borrowed it. If you pay the $ 220 and call it an expensive lesson, you will not feel the same about the relationship. Unless you are very forgiving, you will feel some resentment. In addition to being out $ 220, you will in effect distance yourself from this person and lose the friendship. If you decide to pay nothing, you will immediately lose the friendship. You save $ 220 bucks, but now will have earned a less than noble reputation for not honoring your commitments, something that an extra $ 220 could never buy back. The issue is the amount of the money. If you both focus on the money, then it will be hard to reach an equitable solution. He really does need to feel good about the quality of repair on his canoe. You think that is too expensive a solution. Solutions: 1) You might be able to negogiate a better price with the manufacturer for the repair. Do all of the transportation yourself, etc. Maybe barter a skill (Set up PC's, unload trucks for a day, etc). 2) Explain to him the quandry you find yourself in. Tell him you value the friendship. Propose the non factory repair and then ask if there is anything you could do for him to help make up the difference. (Help him re-shingle his roof, etc) 3) Offer to buy the canoe for $ 800 less the $ 220 price of the repair (then have the fiberglass guy do the repair). Even though the economic logic here is flawed, it is workable because it addresses more than monetary issues. The canoe has less perceived value. And you eliminate the aggravation factor: You save him from being reminded of his mistake in judgement every time he looks at the canoe. You just have to want a canoe, have an extra $580 , which if you follow the logic, is not the case, because you borrowed a canoe in the first place. I would go for #1. If that is not possible, then pay the $ 220 and do the factor repair (you still do the legwork), and accept that fact that you made a costly decision which lost you a friend. Blakely --- Blakely LaCroix Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA r.b.p clique # 86. "The best adventure is yet to come" |
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#3
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What's the right thing to do here? I'd take it to the factory and have
the hole fixed. Two hundred bucks is a small price to pay for the knowledge of what your "friend" is like. Then go find a better class of friend. I can understand your friend wanting the canoe back in the same condition as it left, but factory refinish is going to restore the canoe to like new on the colour side. I would also suspect that it is covered under your friend household effects insurance, or yours. "Noone" wrote in message ... | | Jim Flom wrote: | | I borrowed a friend's canoe for an eight day canoe trip (Bowron Lakes, BC -- | it was great). Upon returning we discovered a nickel-sized crack/hole on | one end (above water line). I told the guy beforehand and I mean it that I | would accept responsibility for any damage. | | We both know a guy who does fiberglass work who says he can fix it up just | fine. | However, the owner of the canoe wants to return it to the manufacturer (less | than an hour away) and get it professionally done, sanded, painted, | rebuffed, etc., to the tune of $220 or so. The canoe is at least ten years | old, and is in good shape but hardly pristine. He got it for free. | | I'm having a hard time reconciling to covering such an expensive repair on | an older canoe in this situation. What's the right thing to do here? | | He did offer to sell it before we even left for $800 Canadian. It's a 16' | fiberglass Clipper Ranger. I haven't done the work yet to see if that's a | good price, but it seems on the high side. New ones can be had for $1180 | (CAD). | | What do people think? | | JF | | This is what makes borrowing from friends so difficult. Money often changes the | dynamic between people. So does busted property. | | One approach is to ask what is the value of the friendship. But that ignores | that fact that structure of the friendship got modified. You will feel you are | being taken advantage of if you go for the factory repair. He will feel he is | being asked to make an unwarranted sacrifice if he has to settle for anything | less. After all, the canoe was whole before you borrowed it. | | If you pay the $ 220 and call it an expensive lesson, you will not feel the same | about the relationship. Unless you are very forgiving, you will feel some | resentment. In addition to being out $ 220, you will in effect distance | yourself from this person and lose the friendship. | | If you decide to pay nothing, you will immediately lose the friendship. You | save $ 220 bucks, but now will have earned a less than noble reputation for not | honoring your commitments, something that an extra $ 220 could never buy back. | | The issue is the amount of the money. If you both focus on the money, then it | will be hard to reach an equitable solution. He really does need to feel good | about the quality of repair on his canoe. You think that is too expensive a | solution. | | Solutions: | | 1) You might be able to negogiate a better price with the manufacturer for the | repair. Do all of the transportation yourself, etc. Maybe barter a skill (Set | up PC's, unload trucks for a day, etc). | | 2) Explain to him the quandry you find yourself in. Tell him you value the | friendship. Propose the non factory repair and then ask if there is anything you | could do for him to help make up the difference. (Help him re-shingle his roof, | etc) | | 3) Offer to buy the canoe for $ 800 less the $ 220 price of the repair (then | have the fiberglass guy do the repair). Even though the economic logic here is | flawed, it is workable because it addresses more than monetary issues. The | canoe has less perceived value. And you eliminate the aggravation factor: You | save him from being reminded of his mistake in judgement every time he looks at | the canoe. You just have to want a canoe, have an extra $580 , which if you | follow the logic, is not the case, because you borrowed a canoe in the first | place. | | I would go for #1. If that is not possible, then pay the $ 220 and do the | factor repair (you still do the legwork), and accept that fact that you made a | costly decision which lost you a friend. | | Blakely | | --- | Blakely LaCroix | Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA | r.b.p clique # 86. | | "The best adventure is yet to come" | |
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#5
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You got an eight day rental of a canoe for $220.00 The boat took a
ding. If that was a rental you would pay the rental and the agencie would have your card and you would pay the repair, likely at a reduced rate but you would pay it. After having the boat for more than a week, damaging it and questioning the repair I would be inclined to wonder where I am coming from if I was the borrower. You are grudging giving your friend a shiny boat back after damaging it. I get to borrow a government truck for a youth group i am involved with. When I bring it back it is washed, vacuumed, the oil is checked and it is filled. ( Government Gas ) I would fix it graciously and hope my buddy does not see this posting... Alex McGruer |
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#6
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wrote in message
ups.com... You got an eight day rental of a canoe for $220.00 The boat took a ding. If that was a rental you would pay the rental and the agencie would have your card and you would pay the repair, likely at a reduced rate but you would pay it. After having the boat for more than a week, damaging it and questioning the repair I would be inclined to wonder where I am coming from if I was the borrower. You are grudging giving your friend a shiny boat back after damaging it. I get to borrow a government truck for a youth group i am involved with. When I bring it back it is washed, vacuumed, the oil is checked and it is filled. ( Government Gas ) Congratulations, Alex. Want to house-sit my pets next month? Not that I have anything to prove to you, but another friend invited me to use his 4x4 since mine is a one car family and he was out of the country anyway. When I returned it, it was washed, vacuumed, the oil was checked, and it was filled (Chevron). Not sure why you'd suggest that I engage in some soul searching in order to figure out where I'm coming from, or state that I returned his canoe in a grudging manner, and then go on to tell me I should hope said buddy doesn't see my post. I'm sure it's an oversight, but if you read my original post carefully, you'll see that I accept responsibility for any damage, and that I am simply assessing the propriety of covering such an expensive repair on this older canoe. Thanks to others who have offered their input. Seems like the right thing to do is suck it up, and quietly cover the guy's reasonable repair costs as he sees it (even if I disagree). I'm going to look into my insurance (good idea), but I bet the deductible exceeds the cost of the repair. Go easy on that youth group Alex. JF |
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#7
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"Jim Flom " wrote in message news  U0De.121785$HI.44270@edtnps84...wrote in message Thanks to others who have offered their input. Seems like the right thing to do is suck it up, and quietly cover the guy's reasonable repair costs as he sees it (even if I disagree). I'm going to look into my insurance (good idea), but I bet the deductible exceeds the cost of the repair. And if he ever damages anything of yours, there won't be any question as to whether or not he should cough it up for the higher estimate :-) |
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#8
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Ideally, here's what would have happened:
1) Since you damaged his property, you feel so bad about it that you offer to have it repaired at the expensive option (guilt should do that to you). 2) Your friend is a bit embarassed (and flattered) by the fact that you think so highly of the friendship that you would opt for the expensive repair option. At this point guilt kicks in for him and he suggests: "No, I could ever let you spend that much money; it was just an old canoe. Why don't we just do it at a more reasonable price." Guilt is great. |
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#9
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"BCITORGB" wrote in message oups.com... Ideally, here's what would have happened: 1) Since you damaged his property, you feel so bad about it that you offer to have it repaired at the expensive option (guilt should do that to you). 2) Your friend is a bit embarassed (and flattered) by the fact that you think so highly of the friendship that you would opt for the expensive repair option. At this point guilt kicks in for him and he suggests: "No, I could ever let you spend that much money; it was just an old canoe. Why don't we just do it at a more reasonable price." Guilt is great. What're you suggesting...that managin friendships requires manipulation? ;-) |
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#10
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"KMAN" wrote ...
"BCITORGB" wrote ... Guilt is great. What're you suggesting...that managin friendships requires manipulation? ;-) I think BCITORGBXYZ must be Catholic. ;-) |
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