Hey, Speed Bumps, I Guess These Rowers Brought It on Themselves, Too, Right?
 

I mean, even though it's broad ****ing daylight, if you paddle and you
get capsized by a powercraft, IT'S YOUR GODDAMNED FAULT -- right, speed
bumps?


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

Hey, Speed Bumps, I Guess These Rowers Brought It on Themselves, Too, Right?
 

I am glad my son decided not to join the crew team.


"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

I mean, even though it's broad ****ing daylight, if you paddle and you
get capsized by a powercraft, IT'S YOUR GODDAMNED FAULT -- right, speed
bumps?


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

Hey, Speed Bumps, I Guess These Rowers Brought It on Themselves, Too, Right?
 

NYC XYZ wrote:
I mean, even though it's broad ****ing daylight, if you paddle and you
get capsized by a powercraft, IT'S YOUR GODDAMNED FAULT -- right, speed
bumps?


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT


You know, it's posts like yours above that go a long way toward
*increasing* the animosity between various boating factions. Nice work.

The rowers weren't merely capsized by the powerboat, the powerboat
operator collided with the shell. The powerboat operator was clearly at
fault.

That said, I know from personal local experience that many of the
rowers must bicycle down to the shell house. Some of our local
bicyclists will pedal down the middle of the road at about 5mph, and if
anything is said some of them flip you the finger and remind you that
they have the same "rights as an automobile". Those same cyclists will
come to an intersection with a STOP sign, pull up onto the sidewalk for
about 10 feet and wthout missing a beat just jet out into the cross
traffic. As people slam on brakes etc to avoid hitting the bikers that
a few yards earlier were subject to the same STOP sign as all other
traffic, there is all too often some comment like "Can't you see I'm in
a crosswalk, you son of a bitch?"

We have an active crew program on some of our local lakes. There is a 7
knot speed limit on these lakes, but this is routinely ignored by the
crews. No problem, really, except that the shells are usually
accompanied by small powerboats that also ignore the 7-knot speed
limit. I've seen the coaches in the little outboard vessels go flying
across the lake at 15-20 knots to bitch out some poor guy doing 5-6
knots on the other side of the lake because they think he's generating
a bit more wake than their prima-donna crews should be forced to deal
with.

All vessels are responsible for any damage caused by wake. No problem.
Vessels being rowed have the right of way over nearly all other
watercraft, including sail. No problem. Where some of the scullers
apparently get confused is the part of the regulations that say it is
the responsibilty of all vessels to avoid a collision-(I've often seen
then just start across a narrow channel under the bow on an oncoming
boat, as if they're saying "we have the right of way, they'll just have
to live with it and work around us somehow"), as well as the explicit
requirement in the rules of the road for stand-on vessels to maintain
course and speed.

BTW, our local instances certainly aren't connected with an organized
racing event. They're just daily practice, with shells headed in any
number of random directions simultaneously. Rather obviously, an
organized regatta can exert a defensible claim of
exclusive use of a waterway. We have a large crew race every year, and
the entire waterway is shut down for that event. No problem.

Fortunately, most of the local rowers don't have the same hostile
attitude your post displayed. If you ever get up to my neck of the
woods and I'm out in my boat- please make yourself known to me. You can
be sure I will modify my wake appropriately. :-)

Hey, Speed Bumps, I Guess These Rowers Brought It on Themselves, Too, Right?
 

There certainly are some conflicting reports on what happened.

http://tinyurl.com/9w4yj
http://www.nyrowing.org/
http://ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=8&aid=54486

But there is also some agreement. Apparently it was not broad daylight,
visibility was an issue, and no one seems to have assigned blame.

If two moving craft collide, who hit whom?

Generally speaking, however, the less manuverable craft has the right
of way, regardless of who has the worst result. It will be interesting
to see if a rowing skull is considered less manuverable than a
powerboat. Noneless, everyone has the obligation to make themselves
visible, paddle boats and powerboats. Either boat could be at fault,
however the guy from the skull seems to be one one who had the worst
consequences. My condolences to his friends and family.

--riverman

Hey, Speed Bumps, I Guess These Rowers Brought It on Themselves, Too, Right?
 

riverman wrote:
There certainly are some conflicting reports on what happened.

http://tinyurl.com/9w4yj
http://www.nyrowing.org/
http://ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=8&aid=54486

But there is also some agreement. Apparently it was not broad daylight,
visibility was an issue, and no one seems to have assigned blame.

Yes, I stand corrected -- though morning, it wasn't "broad" daylight
since it was rainy and thus possibly misty.

Visibility is always an issue where there is an absence of malice (and
alcohol, for that matter).

Funny our fellow paddlers are so silent this time about assigning
blame!

If two moving craft collide, who hit whom?

Generally speaking, however, the less manuverable craft has the right
of way, regardless of who has the worst result. It will be interesting
to see if a rowing skull is considered less manuverable than a
powerboat.

It's interesting to see none of the paddling NG assholes are claiming
that the paddler is at fault by default!

I have read, however, that human-powered craft, though considerable
slower, are considered more manuverable (!), generally speaking -- at
least compared to tankers and such. It will be interesting indeed to
see how things are decided when it comes to a small speed-boat.

Noneless, everyone has the obligation to make themselves
visible, paddle boats and powerboats. Either boat could be at fault,
however the guy from the skull seems to be one one who had the worst
consequences. My condolences to his friends and family.

--riverman

Interesting, too, how the NYPD Harbor Patrol's investigation into my
case will turn out. I must say, they do seem serious about it. Most
of the time, civilian complaints are duly noted and left alone.

Hey, Speed Bumps, I Guess These Rowers Brought It on Themselves, Too, Right?
 

O thank you, NYC XYZ! It's been so boring around here since our last
crackpot got wrapped up in the sleeveless jacket and taken off to the
house with the rubber-walled rooms. Thanks for stepping in and filling
the vacancy! Life on r.b.p is becoming interesting again.

-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--

================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================


NYC XYZ wrote:
I mean, even though it's broad ****ing daylight, if you paddle and you
get capsized by a powercraft, IT'S YOUR GODDAMNED FAULT -- right, speed
bumps?


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

Hey, Speed Bumps, I Guess These Rowers Brought It on Themselves, Too, Right?
 

"Oci-One Kanubi" wrote in message
oups.com...
O thank you, NYC XYZ! It's been so boring around here since our last
crackpot got wrapped up in the sleeveless jacket and taken off to the
house with the rubber-walled rooms.

Would that be rubber-walled with sponsons?

--
Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?

Hey, Speed Bumps, I Guess These Rowers Brought It on Themselves, Too, Right?
 

"NYC XYZ" wrote in news:1130334632.427311.99350
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


riverman wrote:
There certainly are some conflicting reports on what happened.

http://tinyurl.com/9w4yj http://www.nyrowing.org/
http://ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=8&aid=54486

But there is also some agreement. Apparently it was not broad daylight,
visibility was an issue, and no one seems to have assigned blame.

Yes, I stand corrected -- though morning, it wasn't "broad" daylight
since it was rainy and thus possibly misty.

I believe on of the site I read indicated that the incident occurred between
5:45 and 6:00am. I don't live all that far from New York City and leave for
work around 7:00am and it's still quite dark.

Visibility is always an issue where there is an absence of malice (and
alcohol, for that matter).

Funny our fellow paddlers are so silent this time about assigning
blame!

Why is it necessary to assign blame? The way I remember the previous
episode was that the fellow paddlers here were not claiming that the police
patrol boat was not at fault, but that ultimately that we are all
responsible for our own safety.

Legally, a motor vehicle must stop for a pedestrian in a crosswalk, and if
I'm in a cross walk and am run over by a motor vehicle the fault would be
attributed to the driver of the motor vehicle. Pragmatically, when a
collision involving a 2 ton motorized vehicle and a human occurs, the human
suffers the greatest amount of damage. Subsequently assigning blame isn't
as much an issue as who might be living the rest of their life crippled or
have their life ended right there. Similarly, in a collision between a
large power boat and a small paddle craft the operator of the paddlecraft is
going to suffer the greatest damage. While maritime right-of-way laws might
give the right of way to the paddle craft, those that take responsibility
for their own safety take whatever precautions are necessary to ensure their
safety rather than assume the rules of the road are going offer complete
protection. That means that carrying a light might meet a legal obligation
but if the light is not sufficient enough to prevent a near collision, most
rational people would conclude that having a brighter light (or maybe just
not paddling at night in certain waterways) will going further in preventing
a future incident than getting a bunch of people to support you in assigning
blame.

Hey, Speed Bumps, I Guess These Rowers Brought It on Themselves, Too, Right?
 

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:34:56 GMT, John Fereira
wrote:

(snipped a bit)
Legally, a motor vehicle must stop for a pedestrian in a crosswalk, and if
I'm in a cross walk and am run over by a motor vehicle the fault would be
attributed to the driver of the motor vehicle. Pragmatically, when a
collision involving a 2 ton motorized vehicle and a human occurs, the human
suffers the greatest amount of damage. Subsequently assigning blame isn't
as much an issue as who might be living the rest of their life crippled or
have their life ended right there. Similarly, in a collision between a
large power boat and a small paddle craft the operator of the paddlecraft is
going to suffer the greatest damage. While maritime right-of-way laws might
give the right of way to the paddle craft, those that take responsibility
for their own safety take whatever precautions are necessary to ensure their
safety rather than assume the rules of the road are going offer complete
protection.

Indeed. My rules of the road when I'm walking or paddling are to let
anything that's bigger, faster, dumber, or in more of a hurry have the
right of way. It's worked so far, with only a couple of close calls.
One of which involved the excuse, "It's been real hot out and there's
been beer." But that was in a location I found (later) was notorious
for bad power boating with beer or other beverages.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)

Hey, Speed Bumps, I Guess These Rowers Brought It on Themselves, Too, Right?
 

And John, if a person jumps into the crosswalk, and crashes into the
side of the truck already passing on the road, no one would hold the
truck driver responsible. Especially if it is dark such that the driver
could not reasonably be expected to see the pedestrian running in an
erratic fashion toward the crossing! A paddled boat, cannot maneuver
itself to take the right of way, and assume the right of way, by
placing itself in jeopardy.

Seems to me that a vessel turning, in the dark, without a required
forward watch, and then crashes into another larger vessel, probably
has little claim to right of way, if I read the story correctly. Yes it
is sad to lose someone, especially someone as full of life as to get up
early and go for an invigorating paddle. However it sounds like the
four paddlers took their activity for granted, and possibly became too
familiar. I read nowhere of any of these paddlers having a PFD on, or
even available. Does a sculling team need to abide by other standing
regulations, or do they just go do their thing, and the rest of us have
to stay out of their way. I doubt it!

Now I don't mean to assign blame, so much as to learn a lesson for
myself. I find it easy to get overly familar with what I am doing, and
then expose myself and others to unnecessary danger and injury. I of
course would feel really bad about someone being hurt on my accord,
especially if while doing something just for the fun and exercise. I
would feel equally bad though if a hard working boater was charged with
any wrongdoing or carelessness on my part.

Just assigning blame is not even an issue. Accepting personal
responsibility is the main concern of the responsible boating, paddling
public. This thread illustrates that there are some though who do not
accept personal responsibility, and try to solve their difficulties
with bluster and guns!

That means that carrying a light might meet a legal obligation
but if the light is not sufficient enough to prevent a near collision, most
rational people would conclude that having a brighter light (or maybe just
not paddling at night in certain waterways) will going further in preventing
a future incident than getting a bunch of people to support you in assigning
blame.

John, I think you nailed this one. Hopefully the rest of us will be
sure that our lights are on. I am concerned that one in particular may
be running with less than full charge in their Energizer." TnT