Totally untrue, if I spill gas while refueling. THe gas doc will
surround the area with absorption material, and clean it up, I have to
file an EPA report on how it happened, and how I will prevent it in
the future

The gas doc? What's a gas doc?

Personally, I sprinkle some Dawn dishwashing detergent around. Presto, no
more gas slick.

Lee

Sounds like you are suffering from "lack of sack" desease and whinning
about it. Bycyles have as much right on our roadways as cars do, and
have no right on the side walks.

I believe that varies with location, but it's certainly true in many
locations.

Lee

Galen Hekhuis wrote

Why would anyone care unless they were planning to sue or something?
I've been kayaking all over the east coast, from Maine to the
Everglades, and I find personal water craft far more irritating,
hazardous, and likely to be in unskilled hands than any kind of
smudgepot (power boat).

You hit that one right on the nose except, of course, for the smudgepot
part.

Lee

"Lee Bell" wrote:
Totally untrue, if I spill gas while refueling. THe gas doc will
surround the area with absorption material, and clean it up, I have to
file an EPA report on how it happened, and how I will prevent it in
the future

The gas doc? *What's a gas doc?

Dock. It doesn't matter too much anyway, because now the discussion
is shifting.

It started as claims of pollution from normal running conditions that
was observed along protected waters (eg, ICW), but this is talking
about a semi-"point" source of pollution, namely a spill occurring at
refueling stations.


Personally, I sprinkle some Dawn dishwashing detergent around.
*Presto, no more gas slick.

Of course, another option when refueling, is to not spill so much fuel
(such that the Sheen Rule is invoked, etc).

And from a similar observation of human nature, a chronic spiller may
very well get inconvenienced by the owner of the refueling station to
report every spill no matter how small (ie, well below reporting
threshold). We can all figure out the real reasons why.


-hh

ComandanteBanana wrote:
"Lee Bell" wrote:

You do know that, by putting a trolling motor on your kayak, you're
classified as a power boat, right?

Oh, give me a break. At worst I'd be a hybrid. Small, slow, noiseless
and backed up by paddles.

Irrelevant, since "The Law is The Law".

At one point, my Canoe was registered as a 'powerboat'. And I recall
that it was a bit of a nuisance to get it fit with letters of the
required minimum height for its Registration#.


Many people that are into motorboating are poorly educated and
couldn't care less about the consequences of their actions. I think
MOTORBOATING IS LARGELY FOR COUCH POTATOES THAT WANT TO
HAVE A DEGREE OF ADVENTURE IN THE GREAT OUTDOORS.

Yet, in the same post, you identified yourself as a power boater.

But not a threat to anything.

Except as a threat to navigation, when in the wrong place.




My anchor weighs 1 1/2 lbs... Terrible threat to the reefs.

It's almost exactly the same threat as mine. An anchor that sets and stays
in place, does very little damage to anything and there's already a law
requiring people to anchor in adjacent sand areas rather than on coral.
Chain and line, on the other hand, can do quite a bit of damage, whether
attached to a kayak or different kind of power boat.

I'd look before I anchor to a reef, don't you?

Oh, to always have the luxury of being able to look through perfectly
clear water.


How much you need for a motorboat?

Which power boat? I have three and, as I've already mentioned, a kayak.
Anchors for each boat is designed for the boat I use it with. My smallest
power boat uses an anchor just like the one I use for the kayak.

OK, why don't you get rid of the big ones?

The proper sizing of an anchor is predicted on several factors, not
just the size of the craft.



But motorboat pollution contributes to "the soup" out there too. You
can even smell the gas, and I doubt it that it would be safe to swim
in the intracostal anymore.

What you can smell is not harming the reefs. As for what you doubt, I
suggest you learn a bit more before getting it wrong again. If you're
talking about human waste by those on boats, I'm afraid you'll have to
include kayakers in your list. It's legal for either of us to use the
ocean as a bathroom. It is not legal for me to discharge my head directly
overboard or to discharge my holding tank within coastal waters. The sewage
outfalls in Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties, on the other hand, pump
millions of gallons of partially treated sewage and chemicals onto the reefs
every day.

Can the government ever be that bad? They claim they treat everything
at Virginia Key...

http://www.reef-rescue.org/research/keywestcitizenpage1.pdf
http://www.reef-rescue.org/MiamiHerald/
Oceanisnoplacefortreatedsewage.pdf

Here's their homepage; note the 'Donate' button:
http://www.reef-rescue.org/


Do you do kayaking by any chance, or you just represent the
motorboating association?

Apparently, you find it utterly incomprehensible for there to be
people who actually own both powered and unpowered watercraft,
particularly when their perspectives and conclusions are at odds with
yours.



-hh

Totally untrue, if I spill gas while refueling. THe gas doc will
surround the area with absorption material, and clean it up, I have to
file an EPA report on how it happened, and how I will prevent it in
the future

The gas doc? What's a gas doc?

Dock. It doesn't matter too much anyway, because now the discussion
is shifting.

I thought of that, but in all my years of boating, I've never seen a dock
surround anything. I considered that it might be a local company in the
business of spill mitigation.

Personally, I sprinkle some Dawn dishwashing detergent around.
Presto, no more gas slick.

Of course, another option when refueling, is to not spill so much fuel
(such that the Sheen Rule is invoked, etc).

Not as much of an option as you'd think. You generally don't know your tank
is full until gas comes out of the overflow which, of course, is over the
water. Some gas is spilled more often than not. Gas evaporates pretty
quickly and such small amounts don't last long enough to be a significant
problem.

Lee

You do know that, by putting a trolling motor on your kayak, you're
classified as a power boat, right?

Oh, give me a break. At worst I'd be a hybrid. Small, slow, noiseless
and backed up by paddles.

Still a power boat. So is a sailboat when under power, which they are most
of the time while in the Intracoastal.

At one point, my Canoe was registered as a 'powerboat'. And I recall
that it was a bit of a nuisance to get it fit with letters of the
required minimum height for its Registration#.

No more nuisance than any other boat. You left off the bother of having to
renew it every year. It's a tax, pure and simple. If you are documented,
it's worse. I don't have to display numbers, the name of the boat
identifies it. The numbers that match the name have to be permanently
carved into the boat somewhere. Mine are in a stringer in the engine room.
In addition to the Coast Guard document, which has to be renewed every year,
I have to have a Florida registration as well that alwo has to be renewed
every year.

I'd look before I anchor to a reef, don't you?

What am I going to see when the reef is more than 100 feet below and
visibility is 40 to 50 feet? I have an option most kayakers don't. I have
a color depth finder that can give me an idea of the nature of the bottom
below me. It's not always sure what I'm over, but I generally have at least
an idea what's there. A high profile reef is pretty easy to see. A flat
one isn't.

OK, why don't you get rid of the big ones?

If you're talking about the anchor, because it's what I need to hold my big
boat. If you mean the boat itself, because it's what I stay on, fish from
and dive from. I'm not sure my wife would agree to sleep on a kayak.

Can the government ever be that bad? They claim they treat everything
at Virginia Key...

Hugh already gave you the links.

http://www.reef-rescue.org/research/keywestcitizenpage1.pdf
http://www.reef-rescue.org/MiamiHerald/Oceanisnoplacefortreatedsewage.pdf

Here's their homepage; note the 'Donate' button:
http://www.reef-rescue.org/

Do you do kayaking by any chance, or you just represent the
motorboating association?

I have a kayak. I don't usually take it into the ocean. I sometimes take
it into the Gulf when I vacation in the Keys. I'm taking the boat down to
Lake Olita this weekend. Perhaps I'll see if the kayak will fit on the bow.
I'd kind of like to tour the waterway in the state park and they won't allow
my powered dinghy in there.

Apparently, you find it utterly incomprehensible for there to be
people who actually own both powered and unpowered watercraft,
particularly when their perspectives and conclusions are at odds with
yours.

Until recently, I had a rowboat and a sail boat too. As Hugh knows, I live
on a lake.

Lee

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:37:15 -0400, "Lee Bell"
wrote:

Totally untrue, if I spill gas while refueling. THe gas doc will
surround the area with absorption material, and clean it up, I have to
file an EPA report on how it happened, and how I will prevent it in
the future

The gas doc? What's a gas doc?

Personally, I sprinkle some Dawn dishwashing detergent around. Presto, no
more gas slick.

Lee


gas Dock attendant, when you are paying 1200 dollars to fill up,
someone hands you the hose

Rod wrote

gas Dock attendant, when you are paying 1200 dollars to fill up,
someone hands you the hose

My tanks don't get that empty, but they could. The weekend fuel bill was a
modest $341.00. They handed me the hose too.

On Aug 14, 1:09*pm, "Lee Bell" wrote:

While it is possible that the boater chose to make it a close call, that's
not certain at all,

However, given the world in which we live, it's highly probable.

As a new boat owner whose future father in law is a past Power
Squadron District Commander, and usually within visual distance on his
own boat when I'm piloting mine with his daughter on board, I
scrupulously recite the rules of the road and how they apply to every
other boat I see out there - fewer than 10% follow them, and at least
another 10% demonstrate the sort of asinine contempt that can only be
explained by the choice described above. I never thought I'd find a
higher asshole density than I do on the roads, but the waterways have
exceeded my worst expectations.

"Against stupidiy, the gods themselves contend in vain" - Isaac Asimov

"My dear sir, 95% of EVERYTHING is crap" - Theodore Sturgeon