Totally untrue, if I spill gas while refueling. THe gas doc will
surround the area with absorption material, and clean it up, I have to
file an EPA report on how it happened, and how I will prevent it in
the future

The gas doc? What's a gas doc?

Dock. It doesn't matter too much anyway, because now the discussion
is shifting.

I thought of that, but in all my years of boating, I've never seen a dock
surround anything. I considered that it might be a local company in the
business of spill mitigation.

Personally, I sprinkle some Dawn dishwashing detergent around.
Presto, no more gas slick.

Of course, another option when refueling, is to not spill so much fuel
(such that the Sheen Rule is invoked, etc).

Not as much of an option as you'd think. You generally don't know your tank
is full until gas comes out of the overflow which, of course, is over the
water. Some gas is spilled more often than not. Gas evaporates pretty
quickly and such small amounts don't last long enough to be a significant
problem.

Lee

You do know that, by putting a trolling motor on your kayak, you're
classified as a power boat, right?

Oh, give me a break. At worst I'd be a hybrid. Small, slow, noiseless
and backed up by paddles.

Still a power boat. So is a sailboat when under power, which they are most
of the time while in the Intracoastal.

At one point, my Canoe was registered as a 'powerboat'. And I recall
that it was a bit of a nuisance to get it fit with letters of the
required minimum height for its Registration#.

No more nuisance than any other boat. You left off the bother of having to
renew it every year. It's a tax, pure and simple. If you are documented,
it's worse. I don't have to display numbers, the name of the boat
identifies it. The numbers that match the name have to be permanently
carved into the boat somewhere. Mine are in a stringer in the engine room.
In addition to the Coast Guard document, which has to be renewed every year,
I have to have a Florida registration as well that alwo has to be renewed
every year.

I'd look before I anchor to a reef, don't you?

What am I going to see when the reef is more than 100 feet below and
visibility is 40 to 50 feet? I have an option most kayakers don't. I have
a color depth finder that can give me an idea of the nature of the bottom
below me. It's not always sure what I'm over, but I generally have at least
an idea what's there. A high profile reef is pretty easy to see. A flat
one isn't.

OK, why don't you get rid of the big ones?

If you're talking about the anchor, because it's what I need to hold my big
boat. If you mean the boat itself, because it's what I stay on, fish from
and dive from. I'm not sure my wife would agree to sleep on a kayak.

Can the government ever be that bad? They claim they treat everything
at Virginia Key...

Hugh already gave you the links.

http://www.reef-rescue.org/research/keywestcitizenpage1.pdf
http://www.reef-rescue.org/MiamiHerald/Oceanisnoplacefortreatedsewage.pdf

Here's their homepage; note the 'Donate' button:
http://www.reef-rescue.org/

Do you do kayaking by any chance, or you just represent the
motorboating association?

I have a kayak. I don't usually take it into the ocean. I sometimes take
it into the Gulf when I vacation in the Keys. I'm taking the boat down to
Lake Olita this weekend. Perhaps I'll see if the kayak will fit on the bow.
I'd kind of like to tour the waterway in the state park and they won't allow
my powered dinghy in there.

Apparently, you find it utterly incomprehensible for there to be
people who actually own both powered and unpowered watercraft,
particularly when their perspectives and conclusions are at odds with
yours.

Until recently, I had a rowboat and a sail boat too. As Hugh knows, I live
on a lake.

Lee

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:37:15 -0400, "Lee Bell"
wrote:

Totally untrue, if I spill gas while refueling. THe gas doc will
surround the area with absorption material, and clean it up, I have to
file an EPA report on how it happened, and how I will prevent it in
the future

The gas doc? What's a gas doc?

Personally, I sprinkle some Dawn dishwashing detergent around. Presto, no
more gas slick.

Lee


gas Dock attendant, when you are paying 1200 dollars to fill up,
someone hands you the hose

Rod wrote

gas Dock attendant, when you are paying 1200 dollars to fill up,
someone hands you the hose

My tanks don't get that empty, but they could. The weekend fuel bill was a
modest $341.00. They handed me the hose too.

On Aug 14, 1:09*pm, "Lee Bell" wrote:

While it is possible that the boater chose to make it a close call, that's
not certain at all,

However, given the world in which we live, it's highly probable.

As a new boat owner whose future father in law is a past Power
Squadron District Commander, and usually within visual distance on his
own boat when I'm piloting mine with his daughter on board, I
scrupulously recite the rules of the road and how they apply to every
other boat I see out there - fewer than 10% follow them, and at least
another 10% demonstrate the sort of asinine contempt that can only be
explained by the choice described above. I never thought I'd find a
higher asshole density than I do on the roads, but the waterways have
exceeded my worst expectations.

"Against stupidiy, the gods themselves contend in vain" - Isaac Asimov

"My dear sir, 95% of EVERYTHING is crap" - Theodore Sturgeon

While it is possible that the boater chose to make it a close call, that's
not certain at all,

However, given the world in which we live, it's highly probable.

As a new boat owner whose future father in law is a past Power
Squadron District Commander, and usually within visual distance on his
own boat when I'm piloting mine with his daughter on board, I
scrupulously recite the rules of the road and how they apply to every
other boat I see out there - fewer than 10% follow them, and at least
another 10% demonstrate the sort of asinine contempt that can only be
explained by the choice described above. I never thought I'd find a
higher asshole density than I do on the roads, but the waterways have
exceeded my worst expectations.

10% is not highly probable. The assholes on the water here are not higher
density than those on the roads, but they don't have to be to be a problem.

Lee

Hey, I've thought this thread was dead... Yes, I assumed you
acknowledged that the Law of the Jungle was the law of the sea.

But it turns out someone mention bikes and I've got carried away, and
went to fight the land predators...

http://forums.miamibeach411.com/inde...hread/3039/P0/

But this philosophy of "big fish vs. little fish," I have learned
recently, carries over to where you can keep you kayak or motorboat.
This lady told me that the selective tenants of her upper scale condo
don't want kayaks there... but welcome yachts.

"NO BLACKS" have been changed to "NO BIKES, NO KAYAKS."

But this philosophy of "big fish vs. little fish," I have learned
recently, carries over to where you can keep you kayak or motorboat.
This lady told me that the selective tenants of her upper scale condo
don't want kayaks there... but welcome yachts.

Money talks. The managee protection plan for S. Florida includes limits on
boat slips, which is driving owners of larger boats to look for places to
keep them. This, in turn, is creating an opportunity for those with docks
to make a lot of money by providing those spaces. Kayaks don't generate
income. Yachts do. It's a fact of life.

Small kayaks can probably be stored inside a condo or apartment. Larger
ones can't. Anything that is stored in common areas, that does not generate
income, is going to be less welcome than things that do generate revenue.
Blame all the Yankees that moved here for the congestion or blame all the
refugees that came from the south and east. Just don't blame those of us
that were born here.

"NO BLACKS" have been changed to "NO BIKES, NO KAYAKS."

There have long been restrictions on motorcycles. Back 25 years ago, when I
lived in Jacksonville, I was required to keep my motorcycle out of sight.
Then I was required to keep it away from the building due to fire
regulations. Lucky for me, I had a ground floor apartment with a storage
room big enough to hold my bike. It was illegal, but out of sight was out
of mind.

By the way, you left trucks, boats on trailers, any kind of trailer, any
kind of motor home and vehicles with advertising on the side, all of which
are limited to one degree or another, by local laws and/or deed
restrictions. In my neighborhood, for example, which is not gated and is in
Davie, long considered Cracker territory, it is not legal to leave a trailer
of any kind where it can be seen from the street, it is not legal to park a
motor home in your driveway and it is not legal to have any vehicle with
advertising on it in your driveway on a permanent basis. Other communities
in the area go so far as to ban pickup trucks completely. It's a crazy
world.

Lee

On Sep 3, 10:52*am, "Lee Bell" wrote:
But this philosophy of "big fish vs. little fish," I have learned
recently, carries over to where you can keep you kayak or motorboat.
This lady told me that the selective tenants of her upper scale condo
don't want kayaks there... but welcome yachts.

Money talks. *The managee protection plan for S. Florida includes limits on
boat slips, which is driving owners of larger boats to look for places to
keep them. *This, in turn, is creating an opportunity for those with docks
to make a lot of money by providing those spaces. *Kayaks don't generate
income. *Yachts do. *It's a fact of life.

Well, I don't see much of an argument here. The same thing happened to
me with a motorcycle. That reason being that the kickstand could make
a hole on the pavement, serious.

The signs may as well say, "Yachts and SUVs welcome, kayaks and bikes
are not."

I meant bicycles but it applies to both motorized and non motorized.

I go all the time into my girlfriend's hotel with a bicycle and I have
fun seeing the security guards follow me and ask me all kinds of
questions, "Chief, what are you doing here?" Then I tell them the
apartment number and they have to shut up. Today I got even. I went in
the back door, and when the guard thought he finally caught me
slipping in, I produced the key and said, "What's up chief?"

He still followed me but only saw me taking my mail and walking out.
You know, the usual routine.

The moral of this story is that monkeys in bikes or kayaks are not
welcome everywhere.

I am a retired Coast Guard officer who has taught the COLREGS and Inland
Rules.

I suggest that all of you study and learn the Inland Rules of the Road.
These are available at:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

In Part A, click on the "Inland" link and just progress through the rules
using the "Next Rule" link following the text.

If you are doing any open water crossings or are paddling in the area of
Block Island, Dry Tortugas, etc. you will also need to know the
International Rules.

This whole discussion has demonstrated the lack of knowledge the paddling
community has regarding the rules of our own hobby/avocation.

WCP
Oregon


On 8/14/08 8:25 AM, in article
,
"ComandanteBanana" wrote:

Well, I'm not going to speak in defense of the sardine in their
eternal quest to survive the big fish...

The issue here is, WHY A KAYAK OR CANOE MUST GIVE THE RIGHT OF WAY TO
THE MOTORBOATS?

Every weekend the intracostal waterway of Miami becomes a parade of
motorboats of all sorts, from the very big (the owners of this town)
to the very small (the noisy jet skis), often driven by intoxicated
drivers (I guess you call them "drivers," though seldom they are
accountable to the standards as vehicle drivers, like DUI), and almost
always running (or should I say "flying"?) up and down (again, with no
speed limit restrictions like regular drivers). So the task of
crossing these sea highways by paddle becomes something like a duck
crossing the hunting grounds, and you are the sitting duck...

But the ocean is also hunting ground. The other day (it was weekday,
hardly any boats out there), I went to out in my tandem kayak, which I
chose as bright as it could be (sunrise) with the paddles to match
(they could be more visible than the kayak itself), and out of nowhere
came this boat that passed us right in front, so much so that my
partner stopped paddling. The ocean was absolutely flat and it was a
nice sunny day, so the driver must have chosen to make it a close
call...

It wasn't a surprise for me though. The cigarette boats routinely roar
close to the beach to signal who the seas belong to. Hey, it belongs
to the big fish!

NOTE: The attendants of this West Marine store I went to to get a flag
for the kayak told me of the motorboats, "Hey be careful. They don't
care."

WELCOME TO BE JUNGLE
(beware of the big fish)
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
(the sardine revolution)
http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution