Well, I'm not going to speak in defense of the sardine in their
eternal quest to survive the big fish...

The issue here is, WHY A KAYAK OR CANOE MUST GIVE THE RIGHT OF WAY TO
THE MOTORBOATS?

Every weekend the intracostal waterway of Miami becomes a parade of
motorboats of all sorts, from the very big (the owners of this town)
to the very small (the noisy jet skis), often driven by intoxicated
drivers (I guess you call them "drivers," though seldom they are
accountable to the standards as vehicle drivers, like DUI), and almost
always running (or should I say "flying"?) up and down (again, with no
speed limit restrictions like regular drivers). So the task of
crossing these sea highways by paddle becomes something like a duck
crossing the hunting grounds, and you are the sitting duck...

But the ocean is also hunting ground. The other day (it was weekday,
hardly any boats out there), I went to out in my tandem kayak, which I
chose as bright as it could be (sunrise) with the paddles to match
(they could be more visible than the kayak itself), and out of nowhere
came this boat that passed us right in front, so much so that my
partner stopped paddling. The ocean was absolutely flat and it was a
nice sunny day, so the driver must have chosen to make it a close
call...

It wasn't a surprise for me though. The cigarette boats routinely roar
close to the beach to signal who the seas belong to. Hey, it belongs
to the big fish!

NOTE: The attendants of this West Marine store I went to to get a flag
for the kayak told me of the motorboats, "Hey be careful. They don't
care."

WELCOME TO BE JUNGLE
(beware of the big fish)
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
(the sardine revolution)
http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

ComandanteBanana wrote

Well, I'm not going to speak in defense of the sardine in their
eternal quest to survive the big fish...

Glad to hear it since you do not appear to be competent to defend your
position on the issues you did address.

The issue here is, WHY A KAYAK OR CANOE MUST GIVE THE RIGHT OF
WAY TO THE MOTORBOATS?

Here is is in a nutshell. It's called "The Rule of Tonage." I outweigh you
by . . . well, by a lot of times. In an encounter between my boat and
yours, yours, and you, will be crushed. If you aren't, you'll be turned
into hamburger, or fish chum if you prefer, by the propellers on the back,
that are turned, slow or fast, by more than 300 horsepower each. It's call
survival. Ignoring it is commonly referred to as testing Darwin's theory.
They have awards, issued poshumously, for thost that do.

Other than that, here's another anwer. You don't have to give right of way.
Generally speaking, non powered vessels, operated with a bit of common
sense, have the right of way over powered ones.

Every weekend the intracostal waterway of Miami becomes a parade of
motorboats of all sorts, from the very big (the owners of this town)
to the very small (the noisy jet skis), often driven by intoxicated
drivers (I guess you call them "drivers," though seldom they are
accountable to the standards as vehicle drivers, like DUI), and almost
always running (or should I say "flying"?) up and down (again, with no
speed limit restrictions like regular drivers). So the task of
crossing these sea highways by paddle becomes something like a duck
crossing the hunting grounds, and you are the sitting duck...

They're called Captains or pilots, not drivers. If they intoxicated, report
them. There are, in fact, laws controlling that very much like those for
automobile driers. There are speed limits posted all over the place and
quite a few that apply even when not posted. On top of it all, there are
maximum wake and other requirements you've not bothered to notice.

Crossing the channel, whether by paddle or by motorboat, is a lot like
crossing any other highway. You would be ill advised to pull out right in
front of a boat operated by a captain with more knowledge and experience
than your appear to have, operating at a legal speed, not intoxicated, just
like you would be ill advised to push your skateboard out in front of
traffic traveling at the speed limit on I-95. You're the one entering the
channel. You're the one responsible for doing it safely. Imagine that.

But the ocean is also hunting ground. The other day (it was weekday,
hardly any boats out there), I went to out in my tandem kayak, which I
chose as bright as it could be (sunrise) with the paddles to match
(they could be more visible than the kayak itself), and out of nowhere
came this boat that passed us right in front, so much so that my
partner stopped paddling. The ocean was absolutely flat and it was a
nice sunny day, so the driver must have chosen to make it a close
call...

You don't know that at all. There are rules for who has the right of way on
the ocean as well. Have you bothered to research them?

While it is possible that the boater chose to make it a close call, that's
not certain at all, particularly if he did not change course. For all you
know, he would have been on autopilot or, possibly, following a GPS course
from one point to the next. Your assumption that he chose to bother you is
a bit off the mark.

I will grant you that it would have been nice for him to give you a bit more
room. I make a habit of doing that for vessels small enough that going
behind them, through their wake, is not a problem while forcing them to go
through mine might be. On the other hand, if you were paddling into his
path, you also had the option to give yourself more room.

Mostly, I think you think you should have equal rights and you're not happy
that you weren't able to impose your will on those bigger than you are. I
have the same problems with cops. You'll get over it. I did.

Lee

On Aug 14, 1:09*pm, "Lee Bell" wrote:
ComandanteBanana wrote

Well, I'm not going to speak in defense of the sardine in their
eternal quest to survive the big fish...

Glad to hear it since you do not appear to be competent to defend your
position on the issues you did address.

Perhaps gaining ground for the little boats out there is ambitious
enough not to take upon my shoulders the defense of the whole sardine
population.


The issue here is, WHY A KAYAK OR CANOE MUST GIVE THE RIGHT OF
WAY TO THE MOTORBOATS?

Here is is in a nutshell. *It's called "The Rule of Tonage." *I outweigh you
by . . . well, by a lot of times. *In an encounter between my boat and
yours, yours, and you, will be crushed. *If you aren't, you'll be turned
into hamburger, or fish chum if you prefer, by the propellers on the back,
that are turned, slow or fast, by more than 300 horsepower each. *It's call
survival. *Ignoring it is commonly referred to as testing Darwin's theory.
They have awards, issued poshumously, for thost that do.

Good to know. Just by choosing to be a kayaker you'll be a strong
contender for the Darwin's awards.

But since I consider myself a SITTING DUCK, I'm actually doing little
to deserve that award. The motorboat driver is better qualified. He's
playing the SHARK here.


Other than that, here's another anwer. *You don't have to give right of way.
Generally speaking, non powered vessels, operated with a bit of common
sense, have the right of way over powered ones.

Every weekend the intracostal waterway of Miami becomes a parade of
motorboats of all sorts, from the very big (the owners of this town)
to the very small (the noisy jet skis), often driven by intoxicated
drivers (I guess you call them "drivers," though seldom they are
accountable to the standards as vehicle drivers, like DUI), and almost
always running (or should I say "flying"?) up and down (again, with no
speed limit restrictions like regular drivers). So the task of
crossing these sea highways by paddle becomes something like a duck
crossing the hunting grounds, and you are the sitting duck...

They're called Captains or pilots, not drivers. *If they intoxicated, report
them. *There are, in fact, laws controlling that very much like those for
automobile driers. *There are speed limits posted all over the place and
quite a few that apply even when not posted. *On top of it all, there are
maximum wake and other requirements you've not bothered to notice.

If the drivers of those motorboats are captains, then I'm the captain
of my kayak.

Hey, I better leave that honor for the sailboat captains.


Crossing the channel, whether by paddle or by motorboat, is a lot like
crossing any other highway. *You would be ill advised to pull out right in
front of a boat operated by a captain with more knowledge and experience
than your appear to have, operating at a legal speed, not intoxicated, just
like you would be ill advised to push your skateboard out in front of
traffic traveling at the speed limit on I-95. *You're the one entering the
channel. *You're the one responsible for doing it safely. *Imagine that.

Ha, ha, ha. The sitting duck is responsible for sitting there...

http://www.whimsical-art.com/ProdIma...ttingDuck1.jpg

Now you explain to me how a 4mph kayak dodges a 40mph motorboats. A
lot of praying, right?


But the ocean is also hunting ground. The other day (it was weekday,
hardly any boats out there), I went to out in my tandem kayak, which I
chose as bright as it could be (sunrise) with the paddles to match
(they could be more visible than the kayak itself), and out of nowhere
came this boat that passed us right in front, so much so that my
partner stopped paddling. The ocean was absolutely flat and it was a
nice sunny day, so the driver must have chosen to make it a close
call...

You don't know that at all. *There are rules for who has the right of way on
the ocean as well. *Have you bothered to research them?

Why research them if they are not practiced? The only de facto law is
law of the jungle, as I said before. And if it is in the books so the
books must be changed because the lawyers (who work for the motorboat
industry) are NOT considering kayaks when writing them.


While it is possible that the boater chose to make it a close call, that's
not certain at all, particularly if he did not change course. *For all you
know, he would have been on autopilot or, possibly, following a GPS course
from one point to the next. *Your assumption that he chose to bother you is
a bit off the mark.

It was plain intimidation at worst, or simply ignoring the kayak the
way you would ignore, say, an ant. Do you change your course over an
ant?


I will grant you that it would have been nice for him to give you a bit more
room. *I make a habit of doing that for vessels small enough that going
behind them, through their wake, is not a problem while forcing them to go
through mine might be. *On the other hand, if you were paddling into his
path, you also had the option to give yourself more room.

Which means, I should stop paddling and become a sitting duck, not a
slow duck.

You know my strategy? Just ignore him, and go on living like this is
my last day.


Mostly, I think you think you should have equal rights and *you're not happy
that you weren't able to impose your will on those bigger than you are. *I
have the same problems with cops. *You'll get over it. *I did.

Lee

Hey, don't generalize. Some cops are good just as some boaters are
good, and even deserve to be called captains.

It is a jungle. From the law of gross tonnage that Lee mentions to
the fact that there are oodles of natural things out there that can
kill you. Powerboats aren't the only thing. (As a matter of fact,
I've had a powerboat with a bunch of teenagers almost sink their own
boat trying to play "sink the kayak" when they caught me on a lake in
Virginia. They gave up in frustration, I barely even got wet. Unless
it runs you over or something, a powerboat is no match for a kayak. It
can seem a little scary, however.) It is much safer to sit inside and
watch TV.

On Aug 14, 2:53*pm, Galen Hekhuis wrote:
It is a jungle. *From the law of gross tonnage that Lee mentions to
the fact that there are oodles of natural things out there that can
kill you. *Powerboats aren't the only thing. * (As a matter of fact,
I've had a powerboat with a bunch of teenagers almost sink their own
boat trying to play "sink the kayak" when they caught me on a lake in
Virginia. *They gave up in frustration, I barely even got wet. *Unless
it runs you over or something, a powerboat is no match for a kayak. It
can seem a little scary, however.) *It is much safer to sit inside and
watch TV.

You can always watch kayaking videos, right?

But this kid makes the wrong assumption first (it's NOT a jungle) and
then realized the hard truth...

'Looks like I’m wrong. According to this coast guard captain, one
should always assume that “might makes right” on the water. If you
see a vehicle larger than you....avoid it!'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prDue...eature=related

Yeah man, you are in worse situation that a bike. Here you are fair
game for every single predator out there. And the least of your
worries are sharks and alligators.

On Aug 14, 1:09*pm, "Lee Bell" wrote:

They're called Captains or pilots, not drivers. *If they intoxicated, report
them. *There are, in fact, laws controlling that very much like those for
automobile driers. *There are speed limits posted all over the place and
quite a few that apply even when not posted. *On top of it all, there are
maximum wake and other requirements you've not bothered to notice.

I'll like you to elaborate more on this. Is enforcement as harsh and
frequent as on the roads? Are there open container laws? Are there
speed limits? And are there wake requirements?

Not that I care about the last issue.

Here is is in a nutshell. It's called "The Rule of Tonage." I outweigh
you
by . . . well, by a lot of times. In an encounter between my boat and
yours, yours, and you, will be crushed. If you aren't, you'll be turned
into hamburger, or fish chum if you prefer, by the propellers on the
back,
that are turned, slow or fast, by more than 300 horsepower each. It's
call
survival. Ignoring it is commonly referred to as testing Darwin's theory.
They have awards, issued poshumously, for thost that do.

Good to know. Just by choosing to be a kayaker you'll be a strong
contender for the Darwin's awards.

Not at all. Your question was why you have to give way. The answer is
because you don't stand a chance if you don't. Just like motorcyclists, the
one most likely to die in an accident is the one that had better make sure
one doesn't happen.

But since I consider myself a SITTING DUCK, I'm actually doing little
to deserve that award. The motorboat driver is better qualified. He's
playing the SHARK here.

Only if you assume that he's trying to get you. If he was, you'd be the
first to know. I suppose if a rock were falling, you'd step under it and
blame the rock for hitting you.

If the drivers of those motorboats are captains, then I'm the captain
of my kayak.

OK with me.

Crossing the channel, whether by paddle or by motorboat, is a lot like
crossing any other highway. You would be ill advised to pull out right in
front of a boat operated by a captain with more knowledge and experience
than your appear to have, operating at a legal speed, not intoxicated,
just
like you would be ill advised to push your skateboard out in front of
traffic traveling at the speed limit on I-95. You're the one entering the
channel. You're the one responsible for doing it safely. Imagine that.

Ha, ha, ha. The sitting duck is responsible for sitting there...

Were you sitting there or crossing the channel? Make up your mind.

Now you explain to me how a 4mph kayak dodges a 40mph motorboats. A
lot of praying, right?

You don't. You give way. It appears you had the answer to your question
all along. You just don't like it.

You don't know that at all. There are rules for who has the right of way
on
the ocean as well. Have you bothered to research them?

Why research them if they are not practiced?

So you know what they are and can act accordingly?
So you can report those that fail to abide by them?

Did you learn the rules of driving even though they are routinely violated?

The only de facto law is law of the jungle, as I said before.

If you believe that, then quit your complaining. You chose to be low on the
food chain. They chose not to be. They benefit and suffer for their
choices. You benefit and suffer for yours. If you don't like it, change
your choice.

And if it is in the books so the books must be changed because the lawyers
(who work
for the motorboat industry) are NOT considering kayaks when writing them.

You don't know what the laws are, but you know what those that wrote them
were thinking?

The lawyers that wrote the laws were not, in fact, working for the motorboat
industry. If they were, there would be no give way rules for sailboats and
their damned sure would be no manatee zones where there are not, normally,
any manatees.

It was plain intimidation at worst, or simply ignoring the kayak the
way you would ignore, say, an ant. Do you change your course over an
ant?

Sometimes.

I will grant you that it would have been nice for him to give you a bit
more
room. I make a habit of doing that for vessels small enough that going
behind them, through their wake, is not a problem while forcing them to
go
through mine might be. On the other hand, if you were paddling into his
path, you also had the option to give yourself more room.

Which means, I should stop paddling and become a sitting duck, not a
slow duck.

Which means that paddling into the path of an oncoming speeding boat is kind
of stupid. Refer back to the Darwin discussion.

You know my strategy? Just ignore him, and go on living like this is
my last day.

Works for me, but it makes me wonder why you're complaining here.

Lee


Mostly, I think you think you should have equal rights and you're not
happy
that you weren't able to impose your will on those bigger than you are. I
have the same problems with cops. You'll get over it. I did.

Lee

Hey, don't generalize. Some cops are good just as some boaters are
good, and even deserve to be called captains.

'Looks like I’m wrong. According to this coast guard captain, one
should always assume that “might makes right” on the water. If you
see a vehicle larger than you....avoid it!'

Anything else may be right, but there's a reason for the words "dead right."

Lee

They're called Captains or pilots, not drivers. If they intoxicated,
report
them. There are, in fact, laws controlling that very much like those for
automobile driers. There are speed limits posted all over the place and
quite a few that apply even when not posted. On top of it all, there are
maximum wake and other requirements you've not bothered to notice.

I'll like you to elaborate more on this. Is enforcement as harsh and
frequent as on the roads?

More so in the intracoastal. Every city in S. Florida, plus the Coast
Guard, Marine Patol the Fish and Game Commission has boats on the
intracoastal enforcing the laws.

Are there open container laws?

Probably not, if for no other reason, because a lot of the boats, mine, for
example, have bars aboard. Having opened containers does not translate into
being impaired. There are laws against operating a boat under the
influence. They're quite similar to the ones for drivers if you're a
civilian. They're must more stringent if you're a licensed captain.

Are there speed limits?

Yes. How does it happen you have not observed the signs? They're all over
the intracoastal.

And are there wake requirements?

Yes. They're posted in various places along the intracoastal too.

Not that I care about the last issue.

You might. While my wake probably would not sink you, it would probably
make you uncomfortable.

Lee

On Aug 15, 3:20 am, Two meter troll wrote:
the rules of the road inland or at sea say the un powered less
maneuverable vessel has the right of way and the real watch out is on
the overtaking vessel.

"The Nav Rules are written with the understanding that not all boats
can maneuver with the same ease. Therefore, Rule 18 states that
certain vessels must keep out of the way of other vessels due to their
ability to maneuver.

A power driven vessel underway must keep out of the way of the
following:

o A sailing vessel, under sail only, and vessels propelled
by oars or paddles. (Note: when a sailboat has its motor running, it
is considered a power driven vessel).
o A vessel engaged in fishing, whose fishing equipment
restricts its maneuverability. This does not include a sport fisher or
party boat and generally means a commercial fishing vessel.
o A vessel with restricted maneuverability such as a dredge
or tow boat, a boat engaged in work that restricts it to a certain
area, or a vessel transferring supplies to another vessel.
o A vessel not under command – broken down.

Each of these vessels must keep out of the way of the next vessel in
the hierarchy. For example, a sailboat must keep out of the way of a
vessel engaged in fishing, which in turn must keep out of the way of a
vessel with restricted maneuverability. And everyone must keep out of
the way of a vessel not under command.
"

that being said unofficially tonnage rules.
or you can decide to get mad and do something about the drunken
assholes. this can range from getting a citizen group together or
direct action.

a granade or a can of white gas with a blasting cap floated in front
of a cig boat. sure makes the scum of the water into so much scrap. A
nice chain just under the water does a good job as well.
I do love the sound of bubbas beer can breaking his tooth.

mainly my advice is to get out of the cancer coast and move to a place
with humans.

here is a link to the inland rules of the road.http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm
read it carefully and don't try to go head to head with a jet ski.
however they have side numbers and you can report them and bring
charges.

PS. in case you didn't notice Lee is a Plexiotomy recipient.

In South Florida is a bad idea to be a manatee. So much so that it may
become a verb...

Suzy wrote:
...so you won’t get manateed, I mean run over.

Gus wrote:
LOL at that.

Oh, I missed that. Maybe it will become and entry in the next
Webster’s Dictionary…

Manatee (v): to live in South Florida and get run over by motorboats
while kayaking, just like manatees.

Shark (v): to live in South Florida and own a big superfast motorboat
while intimidating others.

***

Hey, where's the real place with humans, Alaska, Scandinavia?